Beating a dead horse, kayak vs canoe

[manveru]

i'm trying to decide between a kayak and canoe since half the time I fish alone. I'll be fishing medium sized lakes (2,000-3,000 surface acres) and I won't be going out far from shore or out in the wind etc. I know a sot kayak would work, but I like the idea of having more room in a canoe and being able to stand and cast. So does anyone fish bigger water in a canoe or should I just go with a kayak

[tbone1993]

Kayak. I hate fishing out of canoes they get pretty rocky and in any sort of wind they're a brute to keep on track alone. I much prefer using kayaks. You can buy stand up models as well. 

[T-Rick]

Last year was the first year that I've had both options.  I have a Hobie Pro Angler kayak and I love fishing out of it.  Since it came home, the canoe has not left the garage at my house.  For me, the kayak has more storage and is more stable for standing as I can stand and fish for hours if needed.  The integration of electronics as also a big plus for me as they needed to hang over the side of the canoe.

I also have a pontoon boat that I will fish out of and the kayak wins there too.  ;-)

[Choporoz]

I agree with tbone.  Unless you can get your canoe tricked out like AJay, who obviously makes it work and work well, I am firmly in the kayak camp. 

 

Disclaimer....I was answering OP as to fishing alone.  I am seriously considering a canoe in addition to my yak, in order to float rivers with my wife (who won't do the kayak thing.)

[A-Jay]

Long Time Old Town user & abuser here ~ so my vote goes to the Canoe.

A-Jay

[Darren.]

Having used both, I vote the hybrid option!  

If I had the $ for a Hobie, I'd probably have one,
but I absolutely love my Native Ultimate 12 which
is a hybrid between a kayak and canoe. Space
aplenty for storage, customization ease, etc., and
low to the water like a kayak. And light.

[NinjaAbassin]

I would choose kayak over canoe all day everyday. Although the NuCanoe is kinda a hybrid, but still so pricey for just a shell. I would choose a kayak and if you were really really worried about stability buy the widest kayak and if still worried add some outriggers for even more stability. Lure kayak is 36" wide... Atak is 34" wide both have more width than a 1032 Jon boat. 

[Turtle135]

I remember standing in a Hudson Trail Outfitters back in 1991 having the same internal debate. Kayak versus Canoe (I wound up choosing the kayak).

When I am bass fishing in heavy cover I do make a lot of micro adjustments with my paddle to change the presentation angle. With a sit on top kayak that paddle rests quietly in my lap. It is easy to pickup that paddle and do a one handed paddle stroke. My Ride 115 is easy to stand in particularly with the latest and greatest seat they came out with last year. 

I have always felt that due to the ease of getting on and off the water (I have a pickup truck) that I fish as much or more as anyone with a full time job. Good luck in your choice!

 

 

[Goose52]

There are canoes, and then there are CANOES. There are yaks, and there are YAKS. You can't really compare them unless you decide how you want to rig them and how you want to use them.  This question comes up often enough that I have some boilerplate text on file and will paste below.

Welcome to BR.

 

Really, only you can answer that question. Some types of small watercraft (canoes, kayaks, bass raiders, float tubes, pontoons, inflatables, etc.) are perfect for some people. No one type of small watercraft is perfect for all people. In selecting whether you want to get a canoe or a kayak, you need to make a list of your needs, and then determine which craft is the better fit for you. Some of the factors to consider:

• Stabililty and standing capability (moving around, landing fish, another person or kids or dogs in the boat, standing to fish, etc.)

• Cargo/gear storage (how much stuff do you want to take)

• Inboard storage & handling (canoe) versus handling things in your lap or over the water (yak)

• Seating position (usually, but not always more upright seating in a canoe vs. legs-out in yak - have back problems?)

• Vessel weight (how much can you lift/transport)

• Transportability - to the water and possible portaging (do you have a truck, trailer, going to car-top, need to portage, etc.)

• Ease of paddling

• Will you want the capability to motor it?

• Manueverability

• Type of water (lakes, streams, white water, etc.)

• Number of people in the craft

• Stay mostly dry or don't mind getting a bit wet

• Length of voyage (couple hours or a couple days)

• Etc.

Once you answer those questions based on your own capabilities and needs, you'll come closer to chosing either a canoe, a yak, or a hybrid. All are great watercraft in their own ways, you just have to find the best fit for YOU.

I faced the same decision as you are tying to make now but I was open to all types of small watercraft from float tubes up to bass boats. The best solution for ME, was a heavily accessorized canoe. I only fish my local, small (1.5 to 201 acres), no-wake lakes. Some of these lakes don't have boat ramps. I needed something car-topable without a special rack, modular, very light weight, with as much capability as possible. I wanted stability so I could stand and fish all day, lots of inboard storage, motorized, and little to no maintenance. I didn't want to have to buy a truck or other tow vehicle, I didn't want to consume a garage bay or driveway space with a boat and trailer, didn't want high expense and high maintenance, and didn't want to use gasoline power. Taking everything into account, I ended up with a canoe, trolling motor, and outriggers for stability.

 

[Dye99]

Kayak hands down.
I started in a canoe. I still own two canoes, and use them on trips with the kids and wife all the time. But for me, we used canoes to fish out of back in the day because we couldn't use our bass boats on certain lakes, or didn't want to pay for a full size boat.

Thats why angling SOT kayaks were invented, to combat all the issues canoes have for fisherman.

If I was going to rig a canoe with pontoons, trolling motor, fish finder, multiple batteries, a wooden board across the boat to hold tools, a lawn chair, 20 rods, lunch, and all my tackle, it would be in a boat that I don't have to lift. To me, it defeats the purpose on why these boats were made.

I guess being a utilitarian has something to do with it. I want to be able to get in or out of the water fast, hunt down fish in high winds or rain, Have the stability to stand, and have the boat be ready to mount state of the art electronics, be self bailing, and unsinkable. Canoes just don't do that for me.

 

[jbw252]

Great answer Goose52.  It all boils down to your needs, wants, and preferences.  I vote for the kayak - I love my Hobie Revo 13.

[Ratherbfishing]

No offense to those who like them but I hate hate hate HATE canoes.  Don't get sucked into the allure of the "Lewis and Clark" appeal.  They are awkward to load and unload.  They track like shinola.  The slightest breeze will blow them around and you will spend far more time fighting the canoe than you will actually fishing.  They are tippy and you are always about one inch left or right of flipping.  IF you can find someone who likes canoeing but not fishing and who doesn't mind sitting in the back while you fish, they aren't so bad but those people are more scarce than lips on a chicken.

[Goose52]

To the OP - as you can see, everyone usually has some good reasons on why certain boats are good for them. Your mission is to figure out what works best for you.  If you search through this forum you will find a number of threads that you might want to read to get even more opinions.

As to your original post - you mention that you fish alone half the time. What about the other half - do you want a boat big enough for two anglers? If so, you will have to look at tandem kayaks or canoes of 14 ft. minimum. My boat is 11'6" and while it originally had two seats it would absolutely not accommodate two anglers.  

Regarding some of the above generalizations about canoes - as I posted before, there are canoes, and then there are CANOES. Generalizations often do not apply. Examples:

Get on the water fast: My boat does take about 12 minutes to rig, from the time I pull up to the lake with the boat on the roof of the car until I push off. Not bad.

Awkward to load and unload: My bare hull weighs 34 pounds - compare that to kayak weights.  Not awkward for me.

Transportability? No special roof rack needed, no lifting aid needed - I just pick it up, put it on the roof of the car,and strap it down . Now, I'm only 63 and someday when I get "old" I might have to get a special rack and a lifting aid - that will be a few years down the road hopefully. AND, I have enough clearance to drive into the garage and be ready to leave the next day - no unpacking/repacking:

Room - especially standing room? I've got some:

State of the art electronics? Well, I've got DI/SI sonar. I don't have 360 imaging but could rig it if I wanted it. What other electronics do I need?

High winds?  I just spent three days in a row on the lake with winds of 15-20 mph, gusts up to 30.  Not fun, but doable. That's why I have a 55lb trolling motor...

Standing capability: I literally stand all day, only sitting down to change baits, bring in fish, and eat lunch.  I fished seated the first season that I used this boat and it drove me crazy. For the past 5 years it's been all standing. Not only standing, but standing while under power so I can cast and work an area while underway - especially handy when the fish are shallow and you're "beating the bank". In the photo below, I was under power, working down that shoreline.

Why bother with a pimped out canoe - why not get a real boat:  Well, as I pointed out in my earlier post, it's a matter of capability - not vessel type. The pimped out canoe does everything I need it to, without gasoline, a trailer, a consumed garage bay, maintenance, etc.  How much boat does one need for lakes 200 acres or smaller.

Storage? Along one sidewall of the garage and still have room for a vehicle in that bay:

Rough water / heavy rain:  I have to concede that. Kayaks are MUCH better in those situations - especially for white water or in the salt. However, in my case, where I live, heavy rain often means lightning as well and it's off the water for me in that case. If heavy rain is forecast, I don't go in the boat that day - I fish from the bank. On the occasions when I do get caught in heavy rain, I usually pull up to some shoreline cover, and bail the boat out as necessary.

So, the above are some of the counterpoints to issues raised above that apply to my particular boat, rigging, and needs.

AND, another benefit of having a lot of inboard room is that you don't have to handle fish like this in your LAP...

As I said in my earlier post, some types of small watercraft (canoes, kayaks, bass raiders, float tubes, pontoons, inflatables, etc.) are perfect for some people. No one type of small watercraft is perfect for all people. AND, generalized statements often do not apply to all situations...

Different "floats" for different folks...  It's all good...

(if some reading this think it sounds familiar - it's because much of it was in the February thread... )

 

[Fishing Rhino]

3 hours ago, Ratherbfishing said:

No offense to those who like them but I hate hate hate HATE canoes.  Don't get sucked into the allure of the "Lewis and Clark" appeal.  They are awkward to load and unload.  They track like shinola.  The slightest breeze will blow them around and you will spend far more time fighting the canoe than you will actually fishing.  They are tippy and you are always about one inch left or right of flipping.  IF you can find someone who likes canoeing but not fishing and who doesn't mind sitting in the back while you fish, they aren't so bad but those people are more scarce than lips on a chicken.

If you are talking about a paddlin' canoe, you are correct.  But I'll bet dollars to donuts that I can hold my position in the wind easier than you can with a kayak.  I put the trolling motor in reverse with just enough power to keep it in position, backed into the wind.  I can slide the canoe from side to side, and the wind does not spin it because, like AJ's canoe it has a keel about two inches in height that runs the length of the canoe.

My paddlin' canoe is another matter entirely.  It has no keel, and even when anchored it can and will spin like a top.  You'd think it would be like a kite in the wind, but that is not the case.  It can do some funky things in the wind.  My canoe with the trolling motor does have one downside.

It is a square stern.  When the waves get high enough, and steep enough, they will slop over the stern when holding position.

All boats are compromises.  They all have their strengths and weaknesses.  I enjoy my canoe as much as, maybe more than my Nitro Z-8 bass boat, on smaller waters that do not require as much travelling. 

With the various types of boats, discussing which is "best" or "better", is like discussing whether fly fishing is better than "regular" fishing.  Every fisherman is different.  One man's meat is another man's poison, and all that kind of rot.

[Fishing Rhino]

"IF you can find someone who likes canoeing but not fishing and who doesn't mind sitting in the back while you fish, they aren't so bad but those people are more scarce than lips on a chicken."

The above is just not accurate.  You can ask anyone who has fished out of my canoe where they sit.  I have a square stern canoe with a trolling motor.  I'd look pretty silly trying to operate the trolling motor on the stern while seated in the bow.  Your post may reflect your point of view, but you are just flat wrong on most of your points.

As you can see in this photo, my partner has the "preferred position, at the bow.

 

[Master Bait'r]

I started off with an entry-level DSG sit-in kayak.  Works great but not very much room and it isn't very comfy.  

 

Recently got a canoe because I wanted more space and a fun project.  I used it a few times but it's just not the same.  I'm delivering the canoe to a buyer today.  Too unwieldy for the places I want to go and the paddling just isn't the same.  Some have pretty long portages that were far more laborious too, as there is no path.  

 

I'm going back to a kayak but I'm getting a sit-on-top instead.  Specifically a lure 11.5 for the space, seat, wheel in the keel for those long portages, option for a rudder and the pass-thru sonar console.  

 

Hybrids are a great option too, I just really like the SOTs.  It's a personal decision though and everybody is different!

 

[Choporoz]

@Goose52, @Fishing Rhino, and @A-Jay , I very much appreciate all of your informative canoe posts. 

So much so, that I am rethinking my 'position'.  I love my yak and have had terrible experiences alone in canoes on windy days, but it is clear that you aren't operating out of the same kind of vessel that I think of when someone says 'canoe'. 

I got to thinking....and wondering if there's a canoe that can do double-duty; as a tricked out solo craft, but can float two of us on a river comfortably when my wife's available to go along?  I am thinking maybe an Old Town Discovery 133 might be small enough to handle alone, but could fish two for 4-6 hours fairly comfortably. 

[A-Jay]

6 minutes ago, Choporoz said:

@Goose52, @Fishing Rhino, and @A-Jay , I very much appreciate all of your informative canoe posts. 

So much so, that I am rethinking my 'position'.  I love my yak and have had terrible experiences alone in canoes on windy days, but it is clear that you aren't operating out of the same kind of vessel that I think of when someone says 'canoe'. 

I got to thinking....and wondering if there's a canoe that can do double-duty; as a tricked out solo craft, but can float two of us on a river comfortably when my wife's available to go along?  I am thinking maybe an Old Town Discovery 133 might be small enough to handle alone, but could fish two for 4-6 hours fairly comfortably. 

I can tell you what works perfectly for me and what doesn't.  It's a little tricky trying to do that for someone else.

However, Old Town does offer some information that may help in your decision.

http://www.oldtowncanoe.com/canoes/choosing_a_canoe/

Good Luck

A-Jay

[Goose52]

On 4/7/2016 at 8:33 AM, Choporoz said:

@Goose52, @Fishing Rhino, and @A-Jay , I very much appreciate all of your informative canoe posts. 

So much so, that I am rethinking my 'position'.  I love my yak and have had terrible experiences alone in canoes on windy days, but it is clear that you aren't operating out of the same kind of vessel that I think of when someone says 'canoe'. 

I got to thinking....and wondering if there's a canoe that can do double-duty; as a tricked out solo craft, but can float two of us on a river comfortably when my wife's available to go along?  I am thinking maybe an Old Town Discovery 133 might be small enough to handle alone, but could fish two for 4-6 hours fairly comfortably. 

First, if you can, KEEP your yak - they are wonderful watercraft. THEN, if you can, get a bigger canoe for use either solo or tandem. The Discovery 133 has a tremendous beam (40"), but is heavy for it's length (13'3"), and would be REALLY cramped for two anglers. I would advise a full 14 ft as a minimum, with 15 ft better.  Depending on what you want to spend, you can find 15' canoes that would weigh about the same as that 133. Whatever boat you get, you will have to decide if both anglers want to stand and fish. If that's the case, you will either have to get an even longer boat...or go with outriggers.  It sounds like you are NOT considering motoring the boat?  That makes a big difference in boat selection.

I don't think us canoe guys are trying to change anyone's minds about their watercraft selections - we're just pointing out that there is a difference between a stripped down, basic "canoe and paddle"...and a fully-rigged boat.

[J Francho]

Standing and casting is a prerequisite for any fiahing kayak I use.  I'm currently running a hybrid kayak/canoe type vessel.  Wilderness Systems Commander 140.

 

[Fishing Rhino]

It is really a case of different strokes for different folks. The only modification on my canoe in the picture is the two swivel seats with back rests.  I have a rod rack like the one in my avatar that I can bolt on in minutes.  I'd have to remove it to make room in the bow for a second fisherman.

It's not quite as convenient, but I can make do without it.  So it stays home.

It's heavy, but manageable with one of those bed extenders that fit into the trailer hitch receiver.  A trailer would be the hot setup, and something I will likely do when I can no longer wrestle the canoe into my truck.

11 hours ago, Goose52 said:

To the OP - as you can see, everyone usually has some good reasons on why certain boats are good for them. Your mission is to figure out what works best for you.  If you search through this forum you will find a number of threads that you might want to read to get even more opinions.

As to your original post - you mention that you fish alone half the time. What about the other half - do you want a boat big enough for two anglers? If so, you will have to look at tandem kayaks or canoes of 14 ft. minimum. My boat is 11'6" and while it originally had two seats it would absolutely not accommodate two anglers.  

Regarding some of the above generalizations about canoes - as I posted before, there are canoes, and then there are CANOES. Generalizations often do not apply. Examples:

Get on the water fast: My boat does take about 12 minutes to rig, from the time I pull up to the lake with the boat on the roof of the car until I push off. Not bad.

Awkward to load and unload: My bare hull weighs 34 pounds - compare that to kayak weights.  Not awkward for me.

Transportability? No special roof rack needed, no lifting aid needed - I just pick it up, put it on the roof of the car,and strap it down . Now, I'm only 63 and someday when I get "old" I might have to get a special rack and a lifting aid - that will be a few years down the road hopefully. AND, I have enough clearance to drive into the garage and be ready to leave the next day - no unpacking/repacking:

Room - especially standing room? I've got some:

State of the art electronics? Well, I've got DI/SI sonar. I don't have 360 imaging but could rig it if I wanted it. What other electronics do I need?

High winds?  I just spent three days in a row on the lake with winds of 15-20 mph, gusts up to 30.  Not fun, but doable. That's why I have a 55lb trolling motor...

Standing capability: I literally stand all day, only sitting down to change baits, bring in fish, and eat lunch.  I fished seated the first season that I used this boat and it drove me crazy. For the past 5 years it's been all standing. Not only standing, but standing while under power so I can cast and work an area while underway - especially handy when the fish are shallow and you're "beating the bank". In the photo below, I was under power, working down that shoreline.

Why bother with a pimped out canoe - why not get a real boat:  Well, as I pointed out in my earlier post, it's a matter of capability - not vessel type. The pimped out canoe does everything I need it to, without gasoline, a trailer, a consumed garage bay, maintenance, etc.  How much boat does one need for lakes 200 acres or smaller.

Storage? Along one sidewall of the garage and still have room for a vehicle in that bay:

Rough water / heavy rain:  I have to concede that. Kayaks are MUCH better in those situations - especially for white water or in the salt. However, in my case, where I live, heavy rain often means lightning as well and it's off the water for me in that case. If heavy rain is forecast, I don't go in the boat that day - I fish from the bank. On the occasions when I do get caught in heavy rain, I usually pull up to some shoreline cover, and bail the boat out as necessary.

So, the above are some of the counterpoints to issues raised above that apply to my particular boat, rigging, and needs.

AND, another benefit of having a lot of inboard room is that you don't have to handle fish like this in your LAP...

As I said in my earlier post, some types of small watercraft (canoes, kayaks, bass raiders, float tubes, pontoons, inflatables, etc.) are perfect for some people. No one type of small watercraft is perfect for all people. AND, generalized statements often do not apply to all situations...

Different "floats" for different folks...  It's all good...

(if some reading this think it sounds familiar - it's because much of it was in the February thread... )

 

Does that trolling motor, battery stand do double duty as a segue?

[Goose52]

1 hour ago, Fishing Rhino said:

Does that trolling motor, battery stand do double duty as a segue?

Ha - no motor or gyro in that stand !  To check it's weight-bearing capacity, I did "load-test" it by using it as a scooter around the garage for a while - I know it will take up to 170 pounds with no problem. Good thing too since I modified it last year to store two TMs plus the battery so it now has about 120 pounds on it...

2 hours ago, J Francho said:

Standing and casting is a prerequisite for any fiahing kayak I use.  I'm currently running a hybrid kayak/canoe type vessel.  Wilderness Systems Commander 140.

 

BONUS POINTS for wearing the PFD !!!!!!!!!

[J Francho]

1 hour ago, Goose52 said:

BONUS POINTS for wearing the PFD !!!!!!!!!

It would violate my contract w/ Wildy if I appear publicly without wearing one. PLus, it's just plain smart to do.

[Surfcaster]

I would vote canoe. But it fits my fishing situation.  I have an Old Town Tripper and we can fit 3 people (me and my 2 sons) if we have to.  To those with outriggers on their canoes, do they get in the way when bringing in a fish.  I have considered them on my canoe.

[Goose52]

On my boat, I purposely kept the outriggers behind me. Having the outriggers behind you does two things: 1) it keeps everything that might foul your line behind you, leaving about a 200+ degree arc in front of you clear for casting, retrieving, and landing fish and 2) gives you the option to paddle...although the end of the paddle stroke is somewhat limited by the outriggers.

As a result of this design, out of nearly 4,000 fish I've caught out of this boat, only two ended up fouled on anything, in both cases I was anchored and they wrapped around the anchor line.

On your boat, due to the multiple seating positions, you might have to experiment with where to mount the outriggers giving consideration to which seat is the primary paddling position.  In the event you need to mount the outriggers towards the middle of the boat, you will need to keep your rod extended out to the side of the boat enough to keep the line clear of the floats.