Can we talk about finesse Casting rigs?

[oldschoolbasser]

4 hours ago, ibobpeb said:

What model reels are the top two? They look awesome

The top 2 are both 2500C's. The bottom 3 are 2 1500C's,and a 2500C. Actually,the grey 1500C has 150+ side plates on it. The 150+ was a lower cost variant of the 1500C. I liked the side plates because of their sandblasted finish as opposed to the normal anodized one.

Edited April 6, 2016 by oldschoolbasser
Added content

[Goose52]

1 hour ago, 0119 said:

Joel, what is a 150Plus? Ive never heard of that version of the 1500

The 150 Plus was a decontented version of the 1500 - produced in 1991. Beadblasted sideplates, plastic cast control cap (which Joel has on some of his custom reels), and plastic cover over the handle locking nut.

If you haven't purchased it yet - you MUST purchase the book "Small Ambassadeurs - The Legendary Light-Line Fishing Reels".  I've only been dabbling in the small Ambassadeurs for 3 or 4 years now so my acquired knowledge was meager compared to you guys. However, the book is simply an outstanding work that covers EVERYTHING that you would want to know about these reels. Who would have known there were more than 60 Abu-produced variants of these reels! I wrote a review of this book on Amazon.  

[oldschoolbasser]

1 hour ago, 0119 said:

Joel, what is a 150Plus? Ive never heard of that version of the 1500

It was a lower cost variant of the 1500C that was only produced for a short time. If you haven't read Small Ambassadeurs by Espen Sjaastad & Karl-Eric Svensson do so as it has all the information about the 15-2500C's, and all the variants. I couldn't believe all the different reels that were produced over the years.

[0119]

48 minutes ago, Goose52 said:

47 minutes ago, oldschoolbasser said:

If you haven't read Small Ambassadeurs by Espen Sjaastad & Karl-Eric Svensson do so as it has all the information about the 15-2500C's, and all the variants. I couldn't believe all the different reels that were produced over the years.

If you haven't purchased it yet - you MUST purchase the book "Small Ambassadeurs - The Legendary Light-Line Fishing Reels".  I've only been dabbling in the small Ambassadeurs for 3 or 4 years now so my acquired knowledge was meager compared to you guys. However, the book is simply an outstanding work that covers EVERYTHING that you would want to know about these reels. Who would have known there were more than 60 Abu-produced variants of these reels! I wrote a review of this book on Amazon.  

Ironically It just came in the mail this week and I haven't opened it up yet. I'm heading out on a 8 day cruise tomorrow and told myself I wouldn't look at it until I was ready to read it sitting on a lounge chair with a drink in my hand!  I've been playing with all Ambassadeurs for a couple decades but never heard of the plus name being used.  I suspected it was like the other plus models or the BASS models and had graphite frame or something.  Of all things in my life I regret none I regret as much as selling a matched pair of 1600CIAR and 2600CIAR 's. What a dumb move.....   The small Abu's remind me of the first baitcaster I yearned to own, the Penn Levelmatic 920.   If Pure Fishing had even the slightest eye and ear open to the real, non bass tournament angler, market that keeps them afloat, they would bring back the 2500/1500/1600/2600  models, they would make a killing even if only off the small but spendy Ambassadeur fan niche.  Next up I start collecting some 3500c's.....

[Goose52]

1 hour ago, 0119 said:

Of all things in my life I regret none I regret as much as selling a matched pair of 1600CIAR and 2600CIAR 's. What a dumb move.....   

Maybe I got them...if so, they're in good hands...

1 hour ago, 0119 said:

Next up I start collecting some 3500c's.....

There are just TOO many Ambassadeur models. I told myself that I was going to STRICTLY limit myself to the 1500/1600/2500/2600C lines. That's it. NO expansion of the collecting theme...

...Then I got into these - cute as all get out and an opportunity to fish knucklebusters while still staying in the "Ambassadeur" family and not having to go all the way back to the original Records. My goal is to fish every one of these and catch at least one bass with each. I've already started with one of the 2650's. And for the non-Ambassadeur folks reading this, the 2650, as well as the 2600 and 1750/1750A are interesting hybrids. They have no drag system or anti-reverse like a traditional knucklebuster...but they have a button that disengages the handle during the cast - improving casting distance. All of these reels also have centrifugal braking systems. Neat little reels...

Yeah, I know, it's not very big...but it's a bass. That's all that hit that squarebill that day. At least I got the reel on the water for probably the first time in 40-50 years...

1 hour ago, 0119 said:

Ironically It just came in the mail this week and I haven't opened it up yet. I'm heading out on a 8 day cruise tomorrow and told myself I wouldn't look at it until I was ready to read it sitting on a lounge chair with a drink in my hand!  

I read the book cover-to-cover, over a period of two days. Had a hard time putting it down. I read every word except for the patent drawings. Don't forget to read the end notes as they're referenced in each chapter - LOTS of detail in the end notes.

 

[0119]

Those are knuckle busters aren't they? They are a beautiful reel, I see so few in good or better condition.

[Goose52]

1 hour ago, 0119 said:

Those are knuckle busters aren't they? They are a beautiful reel, I see so few in good or better condition.

Some are knucklebusters, some are hybrids:

The 2000, 2050, and 2500 are knucklebusters - the handle spins on the cast.

The 1750/1750A, 2600, and 2650 have a button on the center of the handle that you can press to disengage the handle during the cast for additional casting distance (although everything else is moving - spool, line guide, main & pinion gears). The reel with Simon's red-knob handle, and the reel mounted on the rod, are 2650s - you can see the button in the middle of the handle. Since the handle disengages on the cast, you can add a custom, heavier handle to the "button" reels. If you added a heavier handle to one of the knucklebusters, you'd rob yourself of about 1/2 of your casting distance. There's a reason why the early Abu handles were so tiny - they needed the lowest mass possible since the handle was part of the rotating mass during the cast !

[oldschoolbasser]

I've been finesse fishing since the early 80's.  Japanese fisherman didn't invent this type of fishing,they refined it. Doodlin, splitshotting, tubes are all finesse baits. I throw 1/16oz & 1/8oz jig heads with 4" worms on my 15-2500C's all the time. Sure the new rods and reels for BFS are a great leap forward, but I don't give them credit for something they didn't invent. Don Iovino, Bobby Garland,and Dick Trask deserve a lot of credit for their part in making finesse fishing a big part of bass fishing. Iovino was going to Japan back in the day to teach Doodlin to Japanese fisherman. Phenix was building rods for the Japanese market specifically for light line and lure fishing. Japan is one of the largest markets for small Ambassadeur reels. Daiwa,and Shimano started making smaller reels for use with lighter lines,and lures because Ambassadeur reels were pretty much the only reels around capable of  handling this type of fishing. 

[Knightiac]

On 4/2/2016 at 4:02 PM, Fishin' Fool said:

Interesting to hear your perspective. I've been fishing spinning gear my whole life so casting gear is clumsy to me. When I was fishing alot I could be 50 feet off the edges of the lilly pads and put a cast within inches of the pads. I'd almost always know when to expect a bite. I guess up north with the clearer water long casts reign supreme.

I went through phases myself. When I first started fishing I learned on spinning of course and thought casting was ridiculous. Once I finally taught myself how to use casting reels I only used them for a period of time and thought spinning reels were a waste of time... LOL. It took me a couple years to truly appreciate the differences and stop trying to cast light lures on casting setups. There are times where I want to flip/pitch and want an incredibly slow fall so I go to spinning, and can get a heck of a cast out of it. Just about preference I guess.

[Master Bait'r]

Hahaha wow, OP definitely got more finesse casting reel talk than he bargained for!  This rabbit hole is pretty deep for 5 pages  

[Goose52]

14 minutes ago, Master Bait'r said:

Hahaha wow, OP definitely got more finesse casting reel talk than he bargained for!  This rabbit hole is pretty deep for 5 pages  

Yeah - and us Ambassadeur guys sorta tunneled off to the side...

[K_Mac]

Goose I have learned much on this thread, especially about old round reels. Like me and you, they show that a little millage doesn't mean they can't still get it done!

[Goose52]

50 minutes ago, K_Mac said:

Goose I have learned much on this thread, especially about old round reels. Like me and you, they show that a little millage doesn't mean they can't still get it done!

Hey Kirby - I know about that mileage...!

It's fun playing with this old stuff. Many on the board wouldn't agree, but fishing is about much more than catching. It doesn't have to be about speed, maximizing yield, only using equipment optimized to the 'nth degree, "tourneys", etc. It should be about doing what is fun for you. Few would "get it" when I say that catching that 10" bass in the photo earlier in this thread was pretty rewarding (although, of course, a 4 pound fish would have been even more rewarding ). It started with buying a reel that probably hadn't been fished in 40 years or more, taking it apart, cleaning and lubing it, adding line, putting it on a rod, and fishing it. Having to unlearn all your muscle-memory for working a BC reel and learning how to deal with a reel that has no drag system and no anti-reverse. Then catching a fish with it. Hopefully, the next time I fish that reel I'll get some bigger fish, and perhaps get my  "knuckles busted"! But for now, the effort that lead up to getting that 10" whopper was just as enjoyable, or perhaps more so, than just buying and using the "latest & greatest." 

[Jeff H]

11 hours ago, oldschoolbasser said:

I've been finesse fishing since the early 80's.  Japanese fisherman didn't invent this type of fishing,they refined it. Doodlin, splitshotting, tubes are all finesse baits.

And, don't forget my favorite...Charlie Brewers Slider.  Snagless Slider and 4" worm is deadly when they tuck back into the edges of the weeds. 

I didn't get started in the early 80's but I was into it before the end of that decade.  Not only was it fun but it added another method of productive performance most were ignoring back then.  I was told I fished "weird" because I'd break out the sissy gear in club tournaments and even though I did well with it, it still was ignored by the rest of the guys.  I still enjoy it all these years later but never got into the finesse caster game seriously until just a couple years ago.

[Jaderose]

Man..this thread has it ALL!  Beautiful older stuff.  Some testy banter.  Fish what you like and are comfortable with.  I use spinning reels for the light stuff and BC's for everything else.  Works for me.  

 

ps...I haven't been very good with a spinning reel before this spring so I decided to take ONLY spinning reels with me for the first month or so.  Now I can cast one pretty accurately.  Gotta work at whatever you want to be better at.

[avidone1]

I guess deifinitions can vary.

To me, a finesse technique is all stealthy and quiet.

Based on this definition flipping a 1/2 oz. jig silently with no splash using an 8' rod and 30lb test line is finesse fishing.

On the other hand  "ultra light" is a whole different ball game.  I don't know many baitcasters that can easily cast a 1/16 oz jig under an overhanging limb for bream or crappie.

I am truly a baitcaster kind of guy, but this talk of 'sissy stick' is just stupid.   KVD uses spinning rods when he deems it the best choice and no one would ever call him a sissy.

[Jeff H]

KVD is a sissy!

By true definition you are correct.  But years and years of the light line/small lure approach being tagged as "finesse" in bass fishing circles has resulted in todays definition.  You accept it for what it is now for reference sake in conversation with others just to prevent confusion and useless arguments and keep the true definition to yourself.  That's what I do anyway. 

Heck, anytime I'm dragging texas rig worms through weeds I'm finessing that worm et al. 

[Further North]

On 4/9/2016 at 7:06 AM, Master Bait'r said:

Hahaha wow, OP definitely got more finesse casting reel talk than he bargained for!  This rabbit hole is pretty deep for 5 pages  

Not at all - I've enjoyed every post.  Learned a lot.

[Further North]

On 4/9/2016 at 10:57 AM, Jaderose said:

Gotta work at whatever you want to be better at.

Yup.  I used fly rods only for a couple of months a few years ago..It made a difference.

So...after a lot of reading, learning, poking round here and there, looking at reels...I decided to bite the bullet and cough up the cash for the Abu Garcia LTX.

Reasons:

1. I like Abu Garcia's stuff and am confident with it.
2. It "felt right".
3. I had to start somewhere and I decided to go with an "in the box" solution and work my way from there.
4. A bunch of Cabela's Points, and rebate made the decision less painful.

Reel's on the way, we'll see how it gets the job done.

[oldschoolbasser]

I've enjoyed this thread,and I appreciate being able to give my perspective on small Ambassadeurs. They have a world wide cult following,not just because they're great reels,but being able to tune,and customize them is a big part of it too. 41 years after they came out,you can still get parts for them,and many more aftermarket parts are being produced. No other reel company has the following like ABU Garcia. We're world wide,and dedicated to our old,slow,and heavy round reels. Unfortunately,Pure Fishing continues to neglect us,but we'll find a way to keep our reels going.

[Goose52]

15 hours ago, oldschoolbasser said:

I've enjoyed this thread,and I appreciate being able to give my perspective on small Ambassadeurs. They have a world wide cult following,not just because they're great reels,but being able to tune,and customize them is a big part of it too. 41 years after they came out,you can still get parts for them,and many more aftermarket parts are being produced. No other reel company has the following like ABU Garcia. We're world wide,and dedicated to our old,slow,and heavy round reels. Unfortunately,Pure Fishing continues to neglect us,but we'll find a way to keep our reels going.

Well said indeed...

The Pure Fishing corporate honchos may not be too hot on keeping the small Ambassadeurs going...but the Abu folks in Svangsta tried to give it a good go...culminating in what might be the ultimate factory-released model - the 2600C Elite released in 2009. Also, that 5.26 oz 2500C prototype discussed on pages 141 and 142 of the Small Ambassadeurs book would have been pretty nifty as well...

[oldschoolbasser]

Great reel,wish that I had one. The  closest I've  come to getting one is getting its dual bearing worm gear lol! 

[Jaderose]

5 hours ago, Further North said:

Yup.  I used fly rods only for a couple of months a few years ago..It made a difference.

So...after a lot of reading, learning, poking round here and there, looking at reels...I decided to bite the bullet and cough up the cash for the Abu Garcia LTX.

Reasons:

1. I like Abu Garcia's stuff and am confident with it.
2. It "felt right".
3. I had to start somewhere and I decided to go with an "in the box" solution and work my way from there.
4. A bunch of Cabela's Points, and rebate made the decision less painful.

Reel's on the way, we'll see how it gets the job done.

I hope it's exactly what you wanted....Good luck!

[Further North]

LTX got here today...it'll work.  I can easily throw a Ned rig as far as I need to...maybe not quite as far as with a light action spinning reel, but close...and I'm more accurate already.

[oldschoolbasser]

Welcome to the Dark Side Luke Skywalker