Florocorbon line and spinning reel issues

[fishwizzard]

When I started fishing a few years ago I started with braided line as I found it more rope-like and easier to tie knots in.  I have moved on to using braid+floro leaders, but now I would like to try spooling up with straight floro for some of my L and UL rigs.  However, the three or four times I have tried it has ended poorly.  Every time I end up with a huge snarl of line whenever the line gets any slack in it.  The line just seems to jump off the spool and knot up. 

I used to work as a rigger and would pull aircraft cable off of spools daily, so I understand the importance of  unspooling the correct way, I have watched numerous videos, bought a spooling assist tool, nothing seems to work.  I have tried under filling the reel by 25%, tried running the entire reel out under light tension and cranking it back in, nothing is working.  It is driving me nuts and I would love any insight into the matter. 

 

[JustinU1X]

In addition to spooling the line on the correct way try soaking it in hot water after you put the line on. Did the trick for me. 

[0119]

Some floro lines are better than others in terms of suppleness.  Some spinning reel brands seem better at coping than others too.  With your experience as a rigger I bet you have more knowledge about this problem than most of us.  Shimano says to load your spool like it was a casting reel.  I didnt have luck the way they suggested. I load as I do mono and use the old telephone book straightener/tensioner trick.  I think you just cant expect much.  They arent going to put too much more technology into it since 99.9% of the consumers use braid. 

 

 

3 minutes ago, JustinU1X said:

In addition to spooling the line on the correct way try soaking it in hot water after you put the line on. Did the trick for me. 

That always gets me..... Soaking a spool in water, hot water even. All the drag internals and the special drag grease used to prolong its life just dont mix with soaking in water.

[JustinU1X]

I don't dunk the whole reel in water. 

[roadwarrior]

You might want to consider Yo-Zuri Hybrid which is a bonded, not coated. nylon/ fluorocarbon blend. I use both #4 (8.5 lb breaking strength) and #6 (11.9). Both sizes are very manageable on spinning tackle, but I strongly recommend treating the line with KVD Line & Lure Conditioner. Purple Smoke blends especially well with stained water; green is virtually invisible in clear water.

If you are set on fluorocarbon, Tatsu #8 is perfect!

 

[fishwizzard]

Interesting responses, thanks guys.  I have tried Spiderwire, Suffix, and Stren floro so far.  I am using such small reels that it's a reasonable expense to try some of the more pricy brands.  The hotwater trick sounds interesting and at the very least cant hurt so long as I dry and relube the reel spool after.  How "hot" do you mean, like, near boiling or just bathwater hot?  I have a new reel sitting at a UPS store waiting for me to grab it tonight on the way home, I might give the hot water soak a try.

1 hour ago, roadwarrior said:

, but I strongly recommend treating the line with KVD Line & Lure Conditioner. Purple Smoke blends especially well with stained water; green is virtually invisible in clear water.

I did come across line conditioner and honestly my first instinct was to disregard it as snake oil, but I didn't realize how porous floro/mono line is, I assumed that it was much less so and any conditioner would just sit on the surface.  It also pretty inexpensive so I will be sure to pick some up. 

I am not married to the idea of floro, just having a clear line for use with small/finesse lures.  I do a lot of small stream/pond panfishing and joining 4lb braid to 4lb floro in any wind is quite a pain.  Ideally I would just use green/white braid for everything but I have a lot of confidence in using a leader now.  It is silly, as fish seem willing to bite an metal spinner but somehow I have convinced myself that they are put off by a string. 

[blckshirt98]

How heavy is the fluoro you're trying to spool?  I've read that 8# is around the max you want to go when spooling straight fluoro on a reel.  Fluoro is stiffer compared to other lines and will bounce off like a slinky even if spooled right.

[The Fisher]

I have had no luck with Fluoro on spinning reels too. I use braid with a Fluoro leader or copolymer Silver Thread AN40 6 or 8# and have never had a line twist. Also, don't overspool the reel with line.

[iabass8]

1 hour ago, Bunnielab said:

Interesting responses, thanks guys.  I have tried Spiderwire, Suffix, and Stren floro so far. 

There's your problem right there.Fluorocarbon is something that you get what you pay for. Inexpensive lines like Red Label and Assassin are decent lines for the money but will make most novice anglers dislike fluorocarbon. Being you want to use this line for your L and UL set ups /w straight fluorocarbon and use what I'm assuming is 1000 size spinning reels (because you said small), I would highly suggest in picking up some 4-7 # Sunline FC Sniper. Great line. I use straight 7# w/o any issues on 1000 size stradics and use 4# for stream trout. Also, buy some KVD line and Lure conditioner and spray it on while spooling and the night before you go out. Will do you wonders. 

[Paul Roberts]

2 hours ago, Bunnielab said:

... I am using such small reels that it's a reasonable expense to try some of the more pricy brands. ...

I was going to ask about spool size...  I am using US Reels (extra-wide-spools) and can use FC up to 12lb (.012") without much difficulty. However I'm using ~2000 size spools for lighter stuff .008 to .010.

As said, line formula (brand/model) matters quite a bit. Some are more wiry than other. I'm using BPS XPS FC now and it has been a nice line. In the past I've used Vanish to 14lb but found it too soft and easily damaged for my bass fishing.

As to putting line on, I tend to get some twist too -which is exacerbated by the wiry nature of FC. But the line settles down with fishing, probably from being stretched some. Once it's "settled" I have virtually no trouble. Oh, I also back-reel rather than use drag which doesn't allow twist to build up.

[JustinU1X]

1 hour ago, Bunnielab said:

Interesting responses, thanks guys.  I have tried Spiderwire, Suffix, and Stren floro so far.  I am using such small reels that it's a reasonable expense to try some of the more pricy brands.  The hotwater trick sounds interesting and at the very least cant hurt so long as I dry and relube the reel spool after.  How "hot" do you mean, like, near boiling or just bathwater hot?  I have a new reel sitting at a UPS store waiting for me to grab it tonight on the way home, I might give the hot water soak a try.

I did come across line conditioner and honestly my first instinct was to disregard it as snake oil, but I didn't realize how porous floro/mono line is, I assumed that it was much less so and any conditioner would just sit on the surface.  It also pretty inexpensive so I will be sure to pick some up. 

I am not married to the idea of floro, just having a clear line for use with small/finesse lures.  I do a lot of small stream/pond panfishing and joining 4lb braid to 4lb floro in any wind is quite a pain.  Ideally I would just use green/white braid for everything but I have a lot of confidence in using a leader now.  It is silly, as fish seem willing to bite an metal spinner but somehow I have convinced myself that they are put off by a string. 

Not boiling or anything, I just use hot tap water. Last time I did it I just ran the water over the line for about 3-4min. No need to submerge the whole real. should've explained that a little better.

[fishwizzard]

The two reels I am interested in spooling up are a Shimino 1000 and an Okuma 50, so yes, very small reels.   I am going to order some 6#  Yo-Zuri Hybrid and some 4# Sunline FC Sniper.  I looked at the Tatsu, but that might be a little rich for my blood right now.  Also picking up some KVD line conditioner.  

I have a 200y spool of 10# Stren I was going to put on the spare spool of the Lew's 3000 I picked up today, but it sounds like I would be better off using that as leader.  

Thanks again for all the advice guys.  

[Paul Roberts]

15 minutes ago, Bunnielab said:

The two reels I am interested in spooling up are a Shimino 1000 and an Okuma 50, so yes, very small reels.  

This is a big chunk of the issue right there I would think.

[0119]

1 hour ago, JustinU1X said:

Not boiling or anything, I just use hot tap water. Last time I did it I just ran the water over the line for about 3-4min. No need to submerge the whole real. should've explained that a little better.

Yeah but your reels spool is full of drag washers carbon dartanium or stainless steel. Worse it could be shimano cork!  All hopefully coated with drag grease. Some reels have sealed drags to prevent what you are doing......

[fishwizzard]

I fish a lot of salt/brackish water, so my reels all get a good rinse off with the hose pretty often.   They are all also in dire need of a breakdown, clean, and lube, but I am somewhat leery of really stripping them down.  

48 minutes ago, Paul Roberts said:

This is a big chunk of the issue right there I would think.

I was wondering about the Okuma, that thing is smaller then an egg.  I love it though, it punches far above it's weight and catching tiny 12" bluefish on it is just too much fun, it's like miniature tuna fishing. 

 

 

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

I think you're torturing yourself needlessly. 10# braid is ideal for a small spinner like that for handling, casting and presentation. If you're hell bent on Fluoro I'd limit it to 5# on that small a spool and use conditioner. 

[fishwizzard]

1 hour ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

I think you're torturing yourself needlessly. 10# braid is ideal for a small spinner like that for handling, casting and presentation. If you're hell bent on Fluoro I'd limit it to 5# on that small a spool and use conditioner. 

Hah, I have been accused of that before!  

Ok, I am going to buy a 275y spool of 6lb Hybrid.  I  will waste 50y of it messing with my little egg-reel, and save the rest to use on a 3000 spinning reel.  

[ranger7717]

personally, even though i get the reasons for fluoro , i cant stand the stuff and i really believe that the whole movement towards it's importance has been blown way out of proportion....99 % of bass fishermen are not fishing in CRYSTAL CLEAR water. i  do have braid on a couple of reels, and i've been catching most of my fish on mono and yozuri since i was a kid and will continue to do so ...and you can too- i promise . all that being said, i think i might try the sunline sniper....just because

[Landis Carrier]

What he said! ^

 

I tried Sniper last year, didn't care for it. My reels have either mono or Yozuri on them. 

[FryDog62]

The challenges with fluorocarbon on spinning reels is well documented - snarly stuff.  There's a whole bunch of "try this," and "try that" from pre-stretching, using line conditioner, boiling in a hot cauldron, etc...  Is anything really worth all that?  

Going lighter line size may help some but the further downside is how much stretch there is in fluorocarbon to begin with, then going lighter makes it even more rubber-band like.  Really tough on longer hook sets!

I would try a couple things myself - first what Road Warrior said, try Yo-Zuri Hybrid.  Stretches much less than fluorocarbon and is more manageable.  Sure, give it some line conditioner but its pretty good stuff and many fans of it on this site.  

Second thing I would consider is maybe trying a new product - Nanobraid (not Nanofil however!).  Nanobraid is a Sufix product and ultra thin.  Eight pound test is like 2 pound size mono.  Low/no stretch and at that diameter might be invisible enough, especially if the water isn't absolute gin clear.  No need for a leader, and no snarly mess like fluorocarbon!

[0119]

10 hours ago, ranger7717 said:

personally, even though i get the reasons for fluoro , i cant stand the stuff and i really believe that the whole movement towards it's importance has been blown way out of proportion...

Me too. Especially when it's now proven that after a solid pull from a fight or snag the line looses its invisibility and clouds up.

[FryDog62]

32 minutes ago, 0119 said:

Me too. Especially when it's now proven that after a solid pull from a fight or snag the line looses its invisibility and clouds up.

I agree, I truly believe the ONLY potentially compelling reason to use fluorocarbon as a main line is if you need a line that sinks... even at that I have compared 100% fluorocarbon to Yo-Zuri Hybrid (which is 50% fluorocarbon) and the sink rate with any kind of weighted lure, jig, plastic, etc is not that big of a difference... and YH is so much less of a head-ache to manage, and less stretch than any fluorocarbon, and just as abrasion resistant, doesn't get ruined after stretching as the post above says, just as invisible, better knots, UV and water resistant, less expensive, etc. etc. etc. 

[fishwizzard]

It sounds like the YH is the way to go and that the 6lb will be versatile enough for both of my small reels.  The smaller of the two rods is almost always used with inline spinners or kastmasters, so the fish tend to hook themselves and I rarely notice missed hits.  The 1000 reel does get a lot of use with a Ned rig and other exposed hook finesse plastics, so I am not sure if I will miss the inelasticity of the 10lb braid+floro that I currently use.  

I will say that a lot of the waters I use these two rods in are very very clear, either shallow creeks/rivers no more then 4-5' deep or shallow man-made lakes where visibility is similar.  I was out this morning to chase some stocked trout in one of the ponds I bass fish in and I could see the bottom as clear as day.