Kevin Short's New Article on Payouts

[redux]

Kinda surprised this isn't already a topic. http://bassblaster.bassgold.com/who-pays-the-payouts

I'm not 100% shocked by what this shows--the anglers are footing the bill for payouts--but it would be more interesting to see all the other dollar amounts and %s that play into the total budgets for each league. It'd be nice to get some anonymous input from anyone involved with either league.

Also, http://ikelive.com/ has a short segment where they talk to Kevin about the article.

[RichF]

As much as I hate to say this because I love it more than life itself, but this is exactly the reason why bass fishing is not and may never be a legitimate professional sport.  You couldn't make your way into the NHL, MLB, NFL, etc. with a sack full of cash and mediocre talent.  Unfortunately, that's the way the  "professional" bass fishing world works.  I'm certainly not saying that the touring pros aren't great anglers, I'm just saying that there are a lot of others out there that are just as good (some better) that will never be able to showcase their talent in bass fishing's "Premier Leagues" because of the monetary restrictions.  

[buzzed bait]

interesting read....  makes it sound a lot more like a poker game than a pro sport!

[JayKumar]

Here's my 2c about what Kevin wrote. You will find it enlightening!

http://bassblaster.bassgold.com/my-2c-about-kevins-payouts-column

[A-Jay]

13 minutes ago, JayKumar said:

Here's my 2c about what Kevin wrote. You will find it enlightening!

http://bassblaster.bassgold.com/my-2c-about-kevins-payouts-column

I like Mr Hawks response ~

Steve Hawks February 20, 2016 at 8:50 am

"First of all props Kevin for voicing an opinion many won’t because of fear of retribution from the promoters and sponsors. Also, thank you Jay for giving him a platform to shout from.

I don’t know that professional bass fishing will ever be able to elevate itself from the “poker tournament mentality” to that of say modern tennis. The problems associated with bass fishing being able to to offer more equitable dispersion of funds is buried in it’s roots. One problem is that anyone who has a fat wallet and some spare time can declare themselves “a pro” and jump in the game. This does not happen in other sports where usually a lifetime of preparation, diligence and success determine who becomes a professional. Tournament anglers have been conditioned to throwing that money in the pot and rolling the dice since they began entering derbies, have seen others profit from it, and are not inclined to try and re-invent the wheel. As long as there are people out there willing to put up the bucks to play, someone will let them. The only way this will change is by respected professionals, like Kevin voicing their opinions and that is probably still not enough.

When Ray Scott started this rodeo, he didn’t do it because he was a huge bass fishing fan. He did it because he is a shrewd business man who realized that he could use other people’s money to make money.

I do believe that the future of professional bass fishing may be determined by the success of Major League fishing style of tournament fishing. They are taking full advantage of TV and sponsorship money while creating a system where the angler must quality to play and if you don’t continue to produce, you must re-qualify. I see this as the best chance these guys have to truly elevate themselves to more equitable distribution of funds. I would like to see that if KVD or Aaron decided not to enter, they would lose viewers, credibility and money. This would force them to pay anglers to come play. I believe we should all support this type of format as it looks like the best shot at change.

Back in the old days a guy with a fishin’ pole, a few hooks and a bag of rubber worms had the same chance as anyone to win a tournament. Technology has changed the game and rendered an uneven playing field. This is another reason that the MLF system may be the future as everyone is equipped with pretty much the same equipment.

I love BASS and FLW and don’t think our sport would never even been considered a sport if it weren’t for people like Ray Scott and Forrest Wood but as the good business men they are, where are they now? The writing has been on the wall for a long time and as in other sports that have evolved over the years, change is on the horizon. We even have bass fishermen receiving college scholarships to fish now. Now we just need more of the truly professionals like Kevin to step up on that soap box and stir the pot."
 

A-Jay

[Team9nine]

3 hours ago, JayKumar said:

Here's my 2c about what Kevin wrote. You will find it enlightening!

http://bassblaster.bassgold.com/my-2c-about-kevins-payouts-column

Special J

I noticed it only took three K-Pink pieces before the opinion disclaimer hit the page

Tournament bass fishing appears to be stuck about where it is now. As you mentioned in your piece, you put the ideal model into play and the pros didn't realize (or care). Along a similar line, overall, the PAA failed miserably as not enough pros wanted to support the right (necessary) moves/changes. When ESPN couldn't get the marketing and eyeballs to budge enough and finally sold it off, that was a sign that things weren't going anywhere fast, and that growth (expanded markets) was going to be a problem. Mr. McKinnis had some nice ideas when he bought it, but he has failed to act on them, so no progress as of yet. Thankfully, the industry has received an infusion of new blood courtesy of marketing to HS and college anglers which will keep the status quo going for another decade or so, at least. I've run the numbers much deeper than K-Pink has and it's a Ponzi scheme that starts at the ground up, and relies on numbers of members and participants at ground zero (at least to a significant degree)  to funnel the money to the top to make the Pro payouts look as good as they do now. MLF is the only place where I still see a glimmer of hope for true progress of the sport.

-T9 (Brian)

[A-Jay]

59 minutes ago, Team9nine said:

Special J

I noticed it only took three K-Pink pieces before the opinion disclaimer hit the page

Tournament bass fishing appears to be stuck about where it is now. As you mentioned in your piece, you put the ideal model into play and the pros didn't realize (or care). Along a similar line, overall, the PAA failed miserably as not enough pros wanted to support the right (necessary) moves/changes. When ESPN couldn't get the marketing and eyeballs to budge enough and finally sold it off, that was a sign that things weren't going anywhere fast, and that growth (expanded markets) was going to be a problem. Mr. McKinnis had some nice ideas when he bought it, but he has failed to act on them, so no progress as of yet. Thankfully, the industry has received an infusion of new blood courtesy of marketing to HS and college anglers which will keep the status quo going for another decade or so, at least. I've run the numbers much deeper than K-Pink has and it's a Ponzi scheme that starts at the ground up, and relies on numbers of members and participants at ground zero (at least to a significant degree)  to funnel the money to the top to make the Pro payouts look as good as they do now. MLF is the only place where I still see a glimmer of hope for true progress of the sport.

-T9 (Brian)

 The resemblance is striking.

Nice analogy ~

A-Jay

[Logan S]

I was actually surprised at how much the tours used to contribute.  I've always thought the pro trails were essentially the same model as a club trail, just on a much larger scale....Everyone puts their money in the pot.  

It sucks that the talent/skill/experience to compete at that level is not enough, you have to be able to afford the expenses too.  A lot of BASS Opens anglers turn down the Elite invitation every year, they had the skill to qualify and it's likely a dream/goal of theirs...But they probably couldn't make the money part work.  

-------------------------------------------

One interesting idea I've had/heard was a relegation-style system.  The top level Elite field would have to be much smaller...Say 20 to 30 anglers.  Under the top level field you have something similar to the current BASS Open fields, larger field open to anyone that can foot the bill.  The Elite field would hopefully be small enough to where the anglers don't have to front the entries/expenses themselves, making them 'true' professionals.  Every season the bottom 5 anglers in the standings of the Elite field are relegated back to the Opens field and the top 5 Opens anglers are promoted to the Elite field.  That's just the wire-frame of the idea and obviously there could be tweaks to account for different regions and other aspects.  

Would be a massive change up and I have no idea if the numbers would ever work, but it seems like it would address the issue of the so-called 'true' professional tour where the anglers don't have to fund themselves.  You'd also keep the idea alive for any angler being able to work their way up to the pro level, so it's not invitation-only like MLF.  

[zell_pop1]

Id like to see rules for the so called best of the best where they don't get si/di sonars, or hydrowaves, or other latest greatest gear and see how they do.  Like Clunn said back in the day tournament anglers were better, they had to figure out a pattern, let's see who would do well the old school way.

[senile1]

On 2/23/2016 at 1:19 PM, JayKumar said:

Here's my 2c about what Kevin wrote. You will find it enlightening!

http://bassblaster.bassgold.com/my-2c-about-kevins-payouts-column

Jay, I appreciate your efforts to be civil and keep the peace; however, I have some points of contention with your response to Kevin's information and I have listed them below.  While I agree with you that there should be no big "fisticuff" about this, striving for what one believes is an improvement in a peaceful manner should not be frowned upon.  It is not the end of bass fishing or tournament fishing if someone chooses to use information to try to change the way professional fishing payouts are funded.

 

Quote

In case you think pro bassin’ can be “fixed” payout-wise, pay real close attention to this: 

Once upon a time back in my another site days I got fired up and tried to change the pro tourney format and payout. We put on a national tourney, nearly all top pros showed up. Not only was there no entry fee, we PAID THEM AN APPEARANCE FEE which more than covered their expenses AND we had a 6-figure payout AND put it on national TV.

There’s never been another tournament like that, including the Classic.

Believe that was the first and only independent attempt to actually do something about this perceived expense/payout problem, done by someone in this biz NOT interested in getting into the tourney game. Worked like a charm…and no one cared, including the pros! Learned a lot, moved on.

- See more at: http://bassblaster.bassgold.com/my-2c-about-kevins-payouts-column#sthash.YE0iu0m0.dpuf

Just to name a few items, we would not have the light bulb, the airplane, civil rights for minorities, etc. if people gave up when they failed the first time.  One attempt does not typically settle the matter.

 

Quote

First, I’m glad Kevin took the time to look into that stuff and write down what he found. It’s not the whole $$ story in pro bassin’ because that would take a lot more time and space, but it’s interesting. 

If Kevin wants to write stuff down I think is interesting, I’m happy to share it with you. That’s all that’s going on here. I have no axe to grind – thank the good Lord for burning that outta my system – and I hope Kevin won’t cross the line from info to axe.

- See more at: http://bassblaster.bassgold.com/my-2c-about-kevins-payouts-column#sthash.YE0iu0m0.dpuf

Kevin isn't just "writing stuff down."  He is making what appears to be a valid point with facts.  If you have other facts that present a more balanced picture of what Kevin is talking about, please provide them so that the rest of us have the full picture.  You also use the phrase, "axe to grind," and I am not sure to what you might be referring, but I just want to clarify that it isn't "axe grinding" to strive for change that is needed in a mature and respectful manner.  Some information is useful for improvement, and as such, should not just be relegated to interesting reading.

 

Quote

Texted a pro who reached out after he read K-Pink’s column. Told him that bassin’ “is what it is. Just keep doing what you’re doing, help people when you can, all we can do.” That’s where I’m at. Doesn’t mean I don’t care. Just means I got perspective. 

- See more at: http://bassblaster.bassgold.com/my-2c-about-kevins-payouts-column#sthash.YE0iu0m0.dpuf

Trying to make a change doesn't mean that people stop caring or stop helping people.  I'm not sure how that even relates to the issue.  I am sure you do have perspective in this industry.  I think Kevin has a perspective that is just as valid for consideration as yours.  

 

[BassThumbAddict]

Charts had me like: 

[IntroC]

The thing about pro bassin is nothing is gonna change until  people start paying entry fees to attend events. To my knowledge this is not the case and even if it were would it be enough for BASS or FLW to flip the entire bill? I doubt it. The NFL and NBA makes money hand over fist because people are willing to pay rediculous amounts to watch an event. Don't forget how much they are raking in on clothing sales like hats, shirts and jackets to support their local teams. I dont ever see that kind of support for bass anglers but then again I never thought NASCAR would be as big as it is either. There is a lot of comparisons between the two IMO. Money needs to by generated from an outside source for the organizations(BASS and FLW) to flip the entire bill. 

[WIGuide]

Intro beat me to it. Unless you can get thousands to attend a weigh-in and get them to pay quite a bit of money to get in they aren't raking in nearly the same revenue as something like the NBA, NFL, MLB, etc, etc. You're never going to be able to do that for just a weigh in, and due to the nature of our sport, fans can't take in all the action. Also, K-pink failed to mention that most pros get at least a portion of their entry's paid for by their sponsors. Something else to consider since this is is mostly talking about the Elites is that you still have to qualify to fish the Elite series. Sure, once you do you could be a very wealthy person that doesn't mind donating over $100K a year to your hobby, but I think those people are very few and far between. 

Is being a pro a bit of a struggle? I'm sure it is, but I also know people aren't going to willingly dive head first into that struggle unless they really want to. If they aren't good enough to perform then tough luck. Life isn't always fair and that part is not going to change.