Preytorien Posted February 19, 2016 Posted February 19, 2016 i just received my very first kayak. A Vibe model Skipjack 90. Got a great deal and it has a lot of features/functionality that I've wanted. While it has a ton of accessories, I'd still like to add some things and I'm not sure how to do some of it. I'd like to add a couple of rope cleats and also some D-rings. However, the kits that ship have a bolt that I presume you stick through the hull, then you both it from the back side. However, where I'd like to put these cleats (or essentially where you could put them anywhere on the hull) would be completely impossible to get your hand into the backside of the hull to tighten the bolt. So how do you kayak customizing gurus do it? Do you just use a self threading screw with some watherproofing epoxy? I'm totally new to it, so if my terminology or whatever is wrong, forgive me. Any direction will be very helpful. Thanks! Quote
Dye99 Posted February 19, 2016 Posted February 19, 2016 in the same situation, I used a self threading screw with marine epoxy. But remember, without a backing plate there is only so much they can stand until they rip out. So what Ive done on my kayaks over the years is light duty use on anything I attach that doesnt have a backing plate. Nowadays I just get all my stuff from Yakattack.com, and don't look back... Funny thing, Im putting two mighty mounts on my ATAK today with backing plates today! Quote
Super User Darren. Posted February 19, 2016 Super User Posted February 19, 2016 1 hour ago, Preytorien said: i just received my very first kayak. A Vibe model Skipjack 90. Got a great deal and it has a lot of features/functionality that I've wanted. While it has a ton of accessories, I'd still like to add some things and I'm not sure how to do some of it. I'd like to add a couple of rope cleats and also some D-rings. However, the kits that ship have a bolt that I presume you stick through the hull, then you both it from the back side. However, where I'd like to put these cleats (or essentially where you could put them anywhere on the hull) would be completely impossible to get your hand into the backside of the hull to tighten the bolt. So how do you kayak customizing gurus do it? Do you just use a self threading screw with some watherproofing epoxy? I'm totally new to it, so if my terminology or whatever is wrong, forgive me. Any direction will be very helpful. Thanks! You have options. Since your yak is an SOT, you do want to use marine goop/sealant if you're using self threading screws, or rivets. Rivets are "permanent", self threading screws leave a hole that you can patch if you feel you put the cleat in the wrong place. You can also drill out a rivet, so technically not permanent.... There are also these, which will compress when tightened: http://www.austinkayak.com/products/1096/Well-Nut.html 1 Quote
Preytorien Posted February 19, 2016 Author Posted February 19, 2016 Wow, thanks for all the great advice. I may look into all those options, other than maybe a rivet since I don't have a rivet gun and such. Thanks guys! 1 Quote
Super User Darren. Posted February 19, 2016 Super User Posted February 19, 2016 4 minutes ago, Preytorien said: Wow, thanks for all the great advice. I may look into all those options, other than maybe a rivet since I don't have a rivet gun and such. Thanks guys! If you go the rivet route, you want to use something like these, which have slots in the aluminum so they fan out and secure better than the standard rivets you find in places like Home Depot.... http://www.austinkayak.com/products/268/Pop-Rivet-Black-Anodized.html 1 Quote
Preytorien Posted February 19, 2016 Author Posted February 19, 2016 46 minutes ago, Darren. said: You have options. Since your yak is an SOT, you do want to use marine goop/sealant if you're using self threading screws, or rivets. Rivets are "permanent", self threading screws leave a hole that you can patch if you feel you put the cleat in the wrong place. You can also drill out a rivet, so technically not permanent.... There are also these, which will compress when tightened: http://www.austinkayak.com/products/1096/Well-Nut.html Darren do you think these would hold securely and strongly enough for a 3lb anchor? I'm also thinking of using these kind for attaching the D-rings. Those would hold rod/paddle leashes. I can't find anything anywhere that lists their approximate strength rating. Quote
Super User Darren. Posted February 19, 2016 Super User Posted February 19, 2016 Just now, Preytorien said: Darren do you think these would hold securely and strongly enough for a 3lb anchor? I'm also thinking of using these kind for attaching the D-rings. Those would hold rod/paddle leashes. I can't find anything anywhere that lists their approximate strength rating. Yes, 3 lb anchor for sure. Probably enough to hold a 5 or 8 (max). Quote
Preytorien Posted February 19, 2016 Author Posted February 19, 2016 Just now, Darren. said: Yes, 3 lb anchor for sure. Probably enough to hold a 5 or 8 (max). Perfect. That's probably the route I'll go. Thanks for the advice. 1 Quote
Super User Darren. Posted February 19, 2016 Super User Posted February 19, 2016 15 minutes ago, Preytorien said: Perfect. That's probably the route I'll go. Thanks for the advice. You bet. Here's a thread discussing rivets vs. the well nuts I posted above. I've used both, but since my kayak is more of a hybrid (Native Ultimate 12), I can use bolts, rivets or well nuts...and I've used them all. Rivets are "easiest" for me, and you can actually find rivets that have a rubber washer for sealing. http://www.jaxkayakfishing.com/phpBB/topic33702.html 1 Quote
Landis Carrier Posted February 21, 2016 Posted February 21, 2016 Another vote for rivets! East to use and easy to remove. Quote
sully99 Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 You can also put a washer on the back of the rivet to help it hold better. Rivet guns are under $20. You can add a hatch so that you can access those areas. http://www.topkayaker.net/Articles/Customize/KayakHatchDeckPlate.html Quote
Super User flyfisher Posted February 22, 2016 Super User Posted February 22, 2016 On February 19, 2016 at 5:45 PM, Darren. said: If you go the rivet route, you want to use something like these, which have slots in the aluminum so they fan out and secure better than the standard rivets you find in places like Home Depot.... http://www.austinkayak.com/products/268/Pop-Rivet-Black-Anodized.html i just noticed a few of the rivets i have used on my flush mounts in my ATAK have popped out so this is a timely post....order being put in today 1 Quote
Super User buzzed bait Posted February 22, 2016 Super User Posted February 22, 2016 darren nailed it. either those well nuts or the tri-grip rivets. and honestly the rivets are my preferred method. also, just to say it again.... i would wait until you get some serious paddling/fishing time in the yak before going crazy with adding accessories. once you drill a hole, add a screw, pop in a rivet, etc. there is no taking it back! 1 Quote
Super User Darren. Posted February 22, 2016 Super User Posted February 22, 2016 13 hours ago, flyfisher said: i just noticed a few of the rivets i have used on my flush mounts in my ATAK have popped out so this is a timely post....order being put in today Forgot to mention, since your up Richmond way, that you should be able to pick these up at Appomattox River Company there. The one in Hampton has/had them. Also, I saw some at BPS and DSG. 1 hour ago, buzzed bait said: darren nailed it. either those well nuts or the tri-grip rivets. and honestly the rivets are my preferred method. also, just to say it again.... i would wait until you get some serious paddling/fishing time in the yak before going crazy with adding accessories. once you drill a hole, add a screw, pop in a rivet, etc. there is no taking it back! Spot on. Fish first, get to know the yak, then drill your holes. You can patch the holes once you made one, but it'll still be there, and perhaps an eye sore.... Took me 2 to 3 years to really understand how I fish out of my yak. Even so, I always experiment with new ideas, and yes, I've got a couple holes I drilled I wish I didn't. 1 Quote
Super User flyfisher Posted February 23, 2016 Super User Posted February 23, 2016 the hours of appomattox up here doesn't let me get there after work and last time i was in there, they didn't have any rivets. Ordering them was pretty easy and now i can look forward to a package coming lol And i will echo the sentiment of fishing for a bit first to see what you really want. I have been kayak fishing of a long time and out of now at least 5 kayaks and y most recent purchase i didn't mount anything until after 10-12 trips. 1 Quote
Preytorien Posted February 23, 2016 Author Posted February 23, 2016 I agree, I probably won't start slapping stuff on it for a while. I think my first item will be an oar holder. I think it's called a "taco" or something like that. Another question - when talking well nuts, some tutorials recommend a silicone to seal it, others say not to use silicone because when you're tightening the nut it will slip. What's your experience with these? Quote
Super User buzzed bait Posted February 24, 2016 Super User Posted February 24, 2016 On 2/23/2016 at 7:18 AM, Preytorien said: Another question - when talking well nuts, some tutorials recommend a silicone to seal it, others say not to use silicone because when you're tightening the nut it will slip. What's your experience with these? none worked best for me Quote
DaileyLimit Posted February 24, 2016 Posted February 24, 2016 On 2/23/2016 at 6:18 AM, Preytorien said: I agree, I probably won't start slapping stuff on it for a while. I think my first item will be an oar holder. I think it's called a "taco" or something like that. Another question - when talking well nuts, some tutorials recommend a silicone to seal it, others say not to use silicone because when you're tightening the nut it will slip. What's your experience with these? I skipped the silicone on my well nuts for that very reason. Haven't had any problems. Now, I did use silicone in areas where I used a rivet or a self tapping screw, just not with well nuts. 1 Quote
Preytorien Posted February 24, 2016 Author Posted February 24, 2016 2 hours ago, DaileyLimit said: I skipped the silicone on my well nuts for that very reason. Haven't had any problems. Now, I did use silicone in areas where I used a rivet or a self tapping screw, just not with well nuts. Ok that answers my question. Additionally the very few items I want to add (a couple d-rings and an oar taco) are going to be well above the waterline, I just didn't know if they'd be okay. Thanks guys for all the help, I'm sure I'll have more questions as I go along. Quote
Super User Darren. Posted February 24, 2016 Super User Posted February 24, 2016 On 2/23/2016 at 7:18 AM, Preytorien said: I agree, I probably won't start slapping stuff on it for a while. I think my first item will be an oar holder. I think it's called a "taco" or something like that. Another question - when talking well nuts, some tutorials recommend a silicone to seal it, others say not to use silicone because when you're tightening the nut it will slip. What's your experience with these? Agree with others, none for well nuts. The rubber should tighten enough to stop water. Quote
Preytorien Posted February 25, 2016 Author Posted February 25, 2016 2 hours ago, Darren. said: Agree with others, none for well nuts. The rubber should tighten enough to stop water. Perfect. My local Ace Hardware has a variety of them in stock. They're all different lengths and widths. I see most places with kayak mod tutorials using 3/8in versions. Is this what you guys would recommend or should I go bigger/smaller? Quote
Super User Darren. Posted February 25, 2016 Super User Posted February 25, 2016 Just now, Preytorien said: Perfect. My local Ace Hardware has a variety of them in stock. They're all different lengths and widths. I see most places with kayak mod tutorials using 3/8in versions. Is this what you guys would recommend or should I go bigger/smaller? Depends on what you're wanting to attach. Something heavy? I think the ⅜ is "standard" for kayaks, so you're probably ok with it. And I'm surprised your local Ace has them in stock! That's great! Quote
Preytorien Posted February 25, 2016 Author Posted February 25, 2016 11 hours ago, Darren. said: Depends on what you're wanting to attach. Something heavy? I think the ⅜ is "standard" for kayaks, so you're probably ok with it. And I'm surprised your local Ace has them in stock! That's great! No nothing heavy. Like I mentioned, just a paddle clip and a couple d-rings that will be used to attach the anchor and/or used for the roof tie-down point. So there might be a little tension on it, but not more than several pounds. Quote
Super User Darren. Posted February 25, 2016 Super User Posted February 25, 2016 38 minutes ago, Preytorien said: No nothing heavy. Like I mentioned, just a paddle clip and a couple d-rings that will be used to attach the anchor and/or used for the roof tie-down point. So there might be a little tension on it, but not more than several pounds. I'd be a bit nervous using for roof tie-down points. Safest route would be to throw a strap over the kayak. I wouldn't trust the well nuts with highway speeds, variable winds buffeting the yak... 1 Quote
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