Help with Boca Bearings

[MainelyBASS]

I have some cheaper reels I'm looking to get more out of, so I'm thinking of replacing the bearings. The problem is I'm not understanding the purchasing part. According to their website, they don't have orange bocas to do a swap on a left handed pro qualifier 5.2:1, but they do have replacements for the right hand 5.2:1. The other reel I want to swap bearings in is a Abu Orra 2 winch left handed . They are available, but I don't know how many to buy to make it worth the replacement. On the auction site, the bocas are way cheap is this where most people buy them? I would love to hear from someone who has replaced with bocas numerous times.

[iabass8]

There is no such thing as a RH and LH bearing. You use the same bearings for right hand reels you do for your left hand reels. To enhance casting performance, you replace the two spool bearings. The pro qualifer has a bearing in the side plate and a bearing on the spool shaft. (each are 3x10x4mm Both of those need replacing. Removing the spool bearing will require a speciality tool that boca and hedgehog studios both make. Anything after that is unnecessary to use bocas. I'm not sure where you are looking on the bay at bocas but I wouldn't recommend buying bocas from anybody except boca themselves or an actual reputable boca dealer. There are more than your fair share of counterfeits on the market. I'm not familiar /w the Orra but you will need 2 bearings for that reel as well. (spool/side plate)

 

 

[kcdinkerz]

Try flushing your old bearings out a giving it a light drop of oil. I wouldn't trust it if it was way cheaper than boccas site prices. For the price of bearings and pliers I'd just buy a better reel.

[FloridaFishinFool]

There is no great mystery to bearings. Boca buys the bearings they sell from Chinese manufacturers and we can too! I have been buying ceramic hybrid bearings from China for years and never had any problems or issues with them. And they cost a whole lot less than Boca's markup too.

In all the world there are not a lot of companies that actually MAKE ball bearings. Everyone else is a brand name selling them. So what in the world is a counterfeit bearing I can only wonder? Does it have a steel races? Does it have ceramic balls? If it does it can not be a counterfeit. What I am reading around here is that some unscrupulous sellers are accused of selling ABEC 3's or 5's as ABEC 7's. I am sure this is possible, but again, does this make the bearing a counterfeit or simply incorrectly described?

Funny thing about bearings is that a lot of fishermen would not be able to even tell a difference between different ABEC rated bearings. And this is precisely why some reel manufacturers use ABEC 3's or 5's in a reel they make and sell for fishing.

So for this reason I buy direct from China and skip the American middlemen who mark up the Chinese bearings they import such as Boca.

In the past I have used Boca bearings and side by side compared them to what I have bought direct from China. Boca was not superior in any way just because it had the Boca brand name on someone else's made in China ball bearings.

I buy direct from a Chinese manufacturer. Am I suppose to think or believe that what I am buying is a counterfeit because I read about it on some online fishing forum?

The Chinese manufacturers are making ball bearings professionally to fit into already existing engineering standards that have been established for decades since long before Boca was even a company which was created about 1987. The engineering standards for ball bearings goes back much further than Boca bearing company- a company based here in Florida who DOES NOT MAKE any of the bearings they sell. Boca is an importer who buys low and resells for a profit.

And given the facts, since most of the bearings are made in China anyways, why not buy direct and save? I do. And I have for years. I have bought hundreds of bearings over the years and I use them in my reels and many of the reels I have repaired or serviced for others too, some are members of this forum. No one has ever complained about the quality of the ceramic hybrid bearings yet.

Does this look like China is in the business to make counterfeit ball bearings?

Looks pretty serious to me. These people are in business to make professional high quality ball bearings used all over the world. This is why Boca bearings are mostly sourced in China today and their VP even said so in a post he made on the TT forum just last year when this same subject came up, he came running in to defend the Boca markup, but he did admit Boca bought their bearings mostly from China and other countries too, but the bulk of what they sell is indeed all made in China.

So the whole point to my comment is to save American fishermen some money. Rather than pay Boca's markup and pay to keep that VP in a high end luxury car at the expense of average Joe fishermen, we can save some money and still have the performance increase of ceramic hybrid ball bearings made in China for less than $4.00 per bearing. See if Boca will sell you one that cheap! Or any other brand name bearing company.

ABU SHIMANO 3x10x4 Hybrid Ceramic Stainless Fishing Reel Bearing ORANGE A7

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ABU-SHIMANO-3x10x4-Hybrid-Ceramic-Stainless-Fishing-Reel-Bearing-ORANGE-A7-/251420138740?hash=item3a89cedcf4:g:ViMAAOxyXp5SO6NI

\

S623C 2OS ABEC-7 LD

QTY: 10pcs

Dimension: ID=3, OD=10, W=4

Stainless Steel, Orange Rubber Seals, Ceramic Balls, Without Grease(Lubrication Dry), ABEC-7(ISO P4)

Marking: Neutral

Package: Vacuum plastic bags and envelope

WE ARE MANUFACTURER,WE ACCEPT PRODUCTION ORDERS.

 

They are a MANUFACTURER who accepts production orders! Guess you know Boca called them! As does probably most brand name bearing companies found thrown around on fishing forums. Think about it... I have. And I come from a family of engineers which is why I am influenced in this direction and share it here so we can all enjoy and save!

So here's the deal... one reel and two ceramic hybrid bearings, or 3 depending on the reel would cost the average fisherman less than $12. Is this such a great expense that would prevent or discourage people from trying them out??? And comparing them with any of the brand names thrown around on fishing forums?

$12. That's it. If any one of us were not happy with ceramic hybrid bearings purchased direct from China would this be a great loss? This is precisely why I went this route years ago and have never looked back or regretted the decision. In fact, it has been the opposite. I have been very satisfied and happy with the ceramic hybrid bearings bought direct from China.

OK, this point is over... on to the next one...

one of the biggest complaints I read about ceramic hybrid bearings is the noise. Yes they are noisier. Oil in steel bearings tends to mute the sound as well as prevent rust, but with ceramic hybrid bearings, the balls are ceramic and can not rust, but the races are still steel and can rust, so oil is still used, but a much lighter oil and less of it which tends to allow for greater free spooling rotation which many equate to greater ease of casting and longer casting distances which is why many choose to use ceramic hybrid bearings.

I use them and lightly oil them, and yes they are noisier, but bearings are not the only issues needing addressed in some reel designs to get longer casting distance out of them. Sometimes polishing internal parts is necessary too, but that is another story different for different reels.

Some fishermen who have tried ceramic hybrid bearings may like the advantages but some have detested the noise so much so they removed them and went back to standard stainless steel ball bearings to find a happy silence, while some other fishermen say they have become addicted to the noise and whine the ceramics can produce.

I remove the seals from all of the ceramic hybrid bearings I install in my reels and run them open. It is my theory the seal can interfere with the bearings ability to spin freely if the seal touches both races it can slow it down, so I remove the seals. Problem solved.

And this year, I am about to go over the top with just one of my reels just to try it out because I can. I have yet to read one comment on any fishing forum that recommends it, but this year due to significant price drops for all ceramic ball bearings, I have decided to take one reel and install 100% fully ceramic ball bearings and races just to try it out. One thing that interests me about going this route is that 100% fully ceramic ball bearings do not need any lubrication at all. No oil of any kind. Just run them completely dry.

Talk about noise? I fully expect that 100% fully ceramic ball bearings will scream with noise. But so what. I can now do one reel for well under $50 and just a short while ago, each bearing was close to $50 so at $100 or $150 it just was not economically feasible to try them, but now, they are down to about $18 each and what the heck, I never tried it and I gotta do it at least once. If I like it I might pursue it further. If I don't like it, $36.00 for 2 bearings is not such a huge loss to me.

Also notice the 100% full ceramic bearing has no seal. They run open.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pcs-MR103-Full-Ceramic-Bearing-ZrO2-Ball-Bearing-3x10x4mm-Zirconia-Oxide-A3E-LW-/181991025139?hash=item2a5f82a9f3:g:aXoAAOSwL7VWlwOI

 

Anyways, I post this just for informational purposes. If it saves someone some money then good.

[crypt]

same as floridafishinfool been buying chinese bearings direct for years,yes they are noisy but do cast and reel a whole lot smoother. as far as doing the whole reel it is way noisier! way smoother. I went back to just replacing the spool bearings. noise was to much. if you buy from someone on an auction site check feedback rating. just like buying anything else buyer beware.thanks.

[FloridaFishinFool]

16 minutes ago, crypt said:

same as floridafishinfool been buying chinese bearings direct for years,yes they are noisy but do cast and reel a whole lot smoother. as far as doing the whole reel it is way noisier! way smoother. I went back to just replacing the spool bearings. noise was to much. if you buy from someone on an auction site check feedback rating. just like buying anything else buyer beware.thanks.

Its cool to see a supporting post.

And I should have brought up the point you made about only replacing spool bearings directly dealing with casting and spool spin ability, and not the entire reel as there is just no need for that. ABEC 3 or 5 stainless steel bearings are more than satisfactory for everything else in the reel- other than the spool.

Thanks for clarifying this point.

 

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

have you flushed and oiled the stock bearings? That should be your first step. The PQ responds well to super tuning. If you feel like you want to go further look into ABEC 5 ceramic hybrid bearings. If you're going to oil them go Very light or save the money. High performance parts about the performance not max life.  

[Evan K]

7 hours ago, FloridaFishinFool said:

There is no great mystery to bearings. Boca buys the bearings they sell from Chinese manufacturers and we can too! I have been buying ceramic hybrid bearings from China for years and never had any problems or issues with them. And they cost a whole lot less than Boca's markup too.

Did you ever consider that maybe what you're paying for with Boca is the QC? Obviously if they're marketing a superior bearing they're going to make sure theirs pass the most stringent inspections, regardless if they "get them from the same Chinese factory as everyone else".

No experience or affiliation either way, just raising the question.

[rippin-lips]

The nice thing about Boca is their customer service. If your bearing happens to experience any issues over time just call them. I've had 2 out of about 14 sets. I was sent a replacement free of charge. I've even received a few other free things from them over the years. Spool pin pliers being one of them. 

[bassinbrooster]

On February 14, 2016 at 8:19 AM, FloridaFishinFool said:

There is no great mystery to bearings. Boca buys the bearings they sell from Chinese manufacturers and we can too! I have been buying ceramic hybrid bearings from China for years and never had any problems or issues with them. And they cost a whole lot less than Boca's markup too.

In all the world there are not a lot of companies that actually MAKE ball bearings. Everyone else is a brand name selling them. So what in the world is a counterfeit bearing I can only wonder? Does it have a steel races? Does it have ceramic balls? If it does it can not be a counterfeit. What I am reading around here is that some unscrupulous sellers are accused of selling ABEC 3's or 5's as ABEC 7's. I am sure this is possible, but again, does this make the bearing a counterfeit or simply incorrectly described?

Funny thing about bearings is that a lot of fishermen would not be able to even tell a difference between different ABEC rated bearings. And this is precisely why some reel manufacturers use ABEC 3's or 5's in a reel they make and sell for fishing.

So for this reason I buy direct from China and skip the American middlemen who mark up the Chinese bearings they import such as Boca.

In the past I have used Boca bearings and side by side compared them to what I have bought direct from China. Boca was not superior in any way just because it had the Boca brand name on someone else's made in China ball bearings.

I buy direct from a Chinese manufacturer. Am I suppose to think or believe that what I am buying is a counterfeit because I read about it on some online fishing forum?

The Chinese manufacturers are making ball bearings professionally to fit into already existing engineering standards that have been established for decades since long before Boca was even a company which was created about 1987. The engineering standards for ball bearings goes back much further than Boca bearing company- a company based here in Florida who DOES NOT MAKE any of the bearings they sell. Boca is an importer who buys low and resells for a profit.

And given the facts, since most of the bearings are made in China anyways, why not buy direct and save? I do. And I have for years. I have bought hundreds of bearings over the years and I use them in my reels and many of the reels I have repaired or serviced for others too, some are members of this forum. No one has ever complained about the quality of the ceramic hybrid bearings yet.

Does this look like China is in the business to make counterfeit ball bearings?

Looks pretty serious to me. These people are in business to make professional high quality ball bearings used all over the world. This is why Boca bearings are mostly sourced in China today and their VP even said so in a post he made on the TT forum just last year when this same subject came up, he came running in to defend the Boca markup, but he did admit Boca bought their bearings mostly from China and other countries too, but the bulk of what they sell is indeed all made in China.

So the whole point to my comment is to save American fishermen some money. Rather than pay Boca's markup and pay to keep that VP in a high end luxury car at the expense of average Joe fishermen, we can save some money and still have the performance increase of ceramic hybrid ball bearings made in China for less than $4.00 per bearing. See if Boca will sell you one that cheap! Or any other brand name bearing company.

ABU SHIMANO 3x10x4 Hybrid Ceramic Stainless Fishing Reel Bearing ORANGE A7

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ABU-SHIMANO-3x10x4-Hybrid-Ceramic-Stainless-Fishing-Reel-Bearing-ORANGE-A7-/251420138740?hash=item3a89cedcf4:g:ViMAAOxyXp5SO6NI

\

S623C 2OS ABEC-7 LD

QTY: 10pcs

Dimension: ID=3, OD=10, W=4

Stainless Steel, Orange Rubber Seals, Ceramic Balls, Without Grease(Lubrication Dry), ABEC-7(ISO P4)

Marking: Neutral

Package: Vacuum plastic bags and envelope

WE ARE MANUFACTURER,WE ACCEPT PRODUCTION ORDERS.

 

They are a MANUFACTURER who accepts production orders! Guess you know Boca called them! As does probably most brand name bearing companies found thrown around on fishing forums. Think about it... I have. And I come from a family of engineers which is why I am influenced in this direction and share it here so we can all enjoy and save!

So here's the deal... one reel and two ceramic hybrid bearings, or 3 depending on the reel would cost the average fisherman less than $12. Is this such a great expense that would prevent or discourage people from trying them out??? And comparing them with any of the brand names thrown around on fishing forums?

$12. That's it. If any one of us were not happy with ceramic hybrid bearings purchased direct from China would this be a great loss? This is precisely why I went this route years ago and have never looked back or regretted the decision. In fact, it has been the opposite. I have been very satisfied and happy with the ceramic hybrid bearings bought direct from China.

OK, this point is over... on to the next one...

one of the biggest complaints I read about ceramic hybrid bearings is the noise. Yes they are noisier. Oil in steel bearings tends to mute the sound as well as prevent rust, but with ceramic hybrid bearings, the balls are ceramic and can not rust, but the races are still steel and can rust, so oil is still used, but a much lighter oil and less of it which tends to allow for greater free spooling rotation which many equate to greater ease of casting and longer casting distances which is why many choose to use ceramic hybrid bearings.

I use them and lightly oil them, and yes they are noisier, but bearings are not the only issues needing addressed in some reel designs to get longer casting distance out of them. Sometimes polishing internal parts is necessary too, but that is another story different for different reels.

Some fishermen who have tried ceramic hybrid bearings may like the advantages but some have detested the noise so much so they removed them and went back to standard stainless steel ball bearings to find a happy silence, while some other fishermen say they have become addicted to the noise and whine the ceramics can produce.

I remove the seals from all of the ceramic hybrid bearings I install in my reels and run them open. It is my theory the seal can interfere with the bearings ability to spin freely if the seal touches both races it can slow it down, so I remove the seals. Problem solved.

And this year, I am about to go over the top with just one of my reels just to try it out because I can. I have yet to read one comment on any fishing forum that recommends it, but this year due to significant price drops for all ceramic ball bearings, I have decided to take one reel and install 100% fully ceramic ball bearings and races just to try it out. One thing that interests me about going this route is that 100% fully ceramic ball bearings do not need any lubrication at all. No oil of any kind. Just run them completely dry.

Talk about noise? I fully expect that 100% fully ceramic ball bearings will scream with noise. But so what. I can now do one reel for well under $50 and just a short while ago, each bearing was close to $50 so at $100 or $150 it just was not economically feasible to try them, but now, they are down to about $18 each and what the heck, I never tried it and I gotta do it at least once. If I like it I might pursue it further. If I don't like it, $36.00 for 2 bearings is not such a huge loss to me.

Also notice the 100% full ceramic bearing has no seal. They run open.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pcs-MR103-Full-Ceramic-Bearing-ZrO2-Ball-Bearing-3x10x4mm-Zirconia-Oxide-A3E-LW-/181991025139?hash=item2a5f82a9f3:g:aXoAAOSwL7VWlwOI

 

Anyways, I post this just for informational purposes. If it saves someone some money then good.

could i possible find out more info from you.... i am never changed out my bearings and am wanting to upgrade my pro qualifiers... any way you could contact me?  bkaz23@yahoo.com

[FloridaFishinFool]

11 hours ago, bassinbrooster said:

could i possible find out more info from you.... i am never changed out my bearings and am wanting to upgrade my pro qualifiers... any way you could contact me?  bkaz23@yahoo.com

I do not own any PQ reels so I do not know the size of the bearings in that reel. Get yourself a digital micrometer and measure each of your bearings on the spool and replace them or, get the Boca size chart shown in the video above. Simple as that.

You might also inquire other forum members here who may already know exactly what size bearings your reels have. And get yourself a spool pin removal tool as shown in the video.

The only thing I would do differently than what he shows in the video are:

1)I order the ceramic hybrid bearings with dry lube, not grease inside! Otherwise a greased bearing will require de-greasing before use.

2)I always remove the rubber seals before using a ceramic hybrid bearing because sometimes the rubber seal can touch both the inner and outer race at the same time and if a bearing has this issue it will slow it down. To avoid this issue I just remove the seals.

3)I use a super lightweight oil on the ceramic hybrid bearings before installing and spin out. Then install. Regular maintenance is also necessary over time.

Other than that just follow the video above.

I also do one extra thing to ceramic hybrid bearings before installing them. I made my own bearing break-in jig. I purchased a small electric motor that spins at 14,000 RPM's and I spin new bearings for some hours to advance the break in before installing them. Some fishermen install them right out of the package and then note they improve over time as they wear in and break in. I try and do this before installation and spin them for hours under a small load at high rpm's which advances the break in of the bearing pre-installation.

Good luck and tell us how it works out for you!

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

The PQ has a spool mounted bearing. I don't recommend diy replacement without buying a specialized pin removal tool. The extra cost may not be worthwhile for 1 or 2 reels. 

Bearings should not require break-in especially at such high sustained speeds. I agree with the removal seals they are truly "non contact"  

 

[aquaholik]

If you are servicing SPINNING reel, you would probably want to stay away from the ceramic bearings for the pinion gear and the roller bearing. Yes they will last longer, especially an all-ceramic bearing for the line roller but I like my spinning reel to sound quiet so after putting an orange seal Boca bearings, I promptly remove them.

I also quit buying bearing from Boca bearings. Ebay for me. Cheaper and I've tested them. If they are quiet, that's all it matters to me for spinning reel. I don't dunk the reel but for accidental dunking, I remove the bearing shields and clean and re oil or grease them depending where on the reel the bearing sits. Daiwa and Shimano share lots of bearing sizes so that makes it easier to buy 10+ of each sizes.