Your idea of light for rod/reel?

[5fishlimit]

2 minutes ago, QUAKEnSHAKE said:

Your description is on an unbalanced rod though. On a rod that is balanced, fulcrum at the reelseat, where you hold it while fishing no matter the weight added/subtracted at the fulcrum point the balance will remain the same.

 

Science begs to differ.

[QUAKEnSHAKE]

So if you're at a seesaw and balance both ends, 50 pound kid on one end and 50 pound kid on the other, and add weight at the center fulcrum the balance will be out?  No, The balance will remain the same

[5fishlimit]

5 minutes ago, QUAKEnSHAKE said:

So if you're at a seesaw and balance both ends, 50 pound kid on one end and 50 pound kid on the other, and add weight at the center fulcrum the balance will be out?  No, The balance will remain the same

I've never held, or heard of, a rod that would balance right at the reel seat with no reel mounted on the rod.

[buzzed bait]

6 minutes ago, 5fishlimit said:

I've never held, or heard of, a rod that would balance right at the reel seat with no reel mounted on the rod.

OMG so simple, you just put quarters in the butt end.....  

[5fishlimit]

39 minutes ago, QUAKEnSHAKE said:

So if you're at a seesaw and balance both ends, 50 pound kid on one end and 50 pound kid on the other, and add weight at the center fulcrum the balance will be out?  No, The balance will remain the same

So then the above statement....

24 minutes ago, buzzed bait said:

OMG so simple, you just put quarters in the butt end.....  

....is negated by this statement because you are adding more weight to one end than you have on the other.

Again.... Science!

 

[cottny27]

1 hour ago, 5fishlimit said:

Science begs to differ.

Try it for yourself.  If you are placing a reel directly on the fulcrum point then it just simply doesn't matter the weight of the reel.  People have the old philosophy of changing reel weights to balance rods out wrong.

 

And no I have never felt a perfectly balanced rod at the reel seat, but you can make em that way with butt weight.

 

[buzzed bait]

we've moved on from science and logic....  useless on the interwebs.  

Q: "what's the lightest setup"

A; "just add more weight"

 

[aquaholik]

5 minutes ago, cottny27 said:

Try it for yourself.  If you are placing a reel directly on the fulcrum point then it just simply doesn't matter the weight of the reel.  People have the old philosophy of changing reel weights to balance rods out wrong.

 

And no I have never felt a perfectly balanced rod at the reel seat, but you can make em that way with butt weight.

 

When people hold a "balance rod and reel", they don't hold it at the exact center of the reel seat. They palm it and the "balance" point now is just in front of the reel. This way, the weight of the reel matters.

a 10 ounce combo is light, but not when the reel weighs 5 oz and the rod weighs 5 ounce. The balance point is going to be4 to 6 inches in front of the reel and you'll be fighting the tip all day if you are jigging light stuff.

[rippin-lips]

How many off the shelf rods can you show me that balance right at the reel seat with no reel?  We are talking normal bass rods. 6'6-7'6 medium - heavy power.  For that neutral balance to happen you have to either move the reel seat up/down which then causes a longer/shorter handle length.  Maybe Mike @DVT will chime in since he's built thousands of rods and could explain it better. 

[QUAKEnSHAKE]

26 minutes ago, aquaholik said:

When people hold a "balance rod and reel", they don't hold it at the exact center of the reel seat. They palm it and the "balance" point now is just in front of the reel. This way, the weight of the reel matters.

a 10 ounce combo is light, but not when the reel weighs 5 oz and the rod weighs 5 ounce. The balance point is going to be4 to 6 inches in front of the reel and you'll be fighting the tip all day if you are jigging light stuff.

That would be a poorly made rod.

I have 5.5oz reel and 4.8oz 7'1" rod that balances 1/2" or so from reel

And the same 5.5oz reel on my 3.4oz 7' rod balances about maybe 3/4" in front of reel

A custom made 7' 5oz rod could be made to balance under a 5oz reel.

Change hand position all you want palm the reel where ever but the balance point wont change it will remain the same. 

[aquaholik]

2 minutes ago, QUAKEnSHAKE said:

A custom made 7' 5oz rod could be made to balance under a 5oz reel.

 

Absolutely, by moving the reel seat up further resulting in an effective shorter rod, or add more butt material if the real seat is a reasonable distance. Or using lighter guides.

Swapped my 7ft broken tip IMX MBR 842 C for the newer "lighter" IMX MBR 843 C. Couldn't even balance the d**n thing using my "old" nearly 9 ounces Calais DC. Forget about putting an Alpha on there. All the weight seems to be from the thick finish and the guides. First Loomis that disappointed me. Luckily they allowed me to swap for the IMX jig and worm series and I went with the 6ft 8 medium action just to stay on the safe side.

[rippin-lips]

For those of you that keep mentioning about adding weight to the butt... Please take some time and look around on some of the rod building forums a bit and you will see that adding weight to a rod is the last thing that you would want to do. @Delaware Valley Tackle

[QUAKEnSHAKE]

we had this discussion  before and its better than adding even more weight with heavier reel.

If it makes it more balanced it will help with sensitivity. Why add 3-4oz to rod,with reel, when 1/2-3/4 will do the same the less weight added overall the better.

 

DVT quote http://www.bassresource.com/bass-fishing-forums/topic/86950-tip-heavy/?p=991184

"Weight added weight anywhere on the blank has a negative affect on sensitivity. With that said, a small amount of weight on the butt area would have the least affect and admittedly probably less that human hands could detect"

 

 

quote from:  http://www.fishing-tackle-repair.com/rod-crafting/resource/articles/rod-balancing.html

"Jump Lures
Jigs, Worms, Spoons, etc. These are slack line techniques and tip heavy rods can be made more sensitive by adding weight to the butt."

 

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Just now, rippin-lips said:

For those of you that keep mentioning about adding weight to the butt... Please take some time and look around on some of the rod building forums a bit and you will see that adding weight to a rod is the last thing that you would want to do. @Delaware Valley Tackle

I agree completely. An appropriate handle design on a quality blank with the right drive train will balance as well as can be expected. Paying for all this and adding extra weight is counter intuitive. Rods are fished on multiple planes and with varying degrees of tip pressure.

A lot of our perceptions of sensitivity , fatigue, stretchiness, smoothness etc are rooted in misinformation disseminated in the form of marketing and comments by "tournament pros" repeated so many times it's taken as fact. This whole game is all about personal preferences at the end of the day and you should do what works for you. For me, adding weight to nearly any rod is avoided. 

A casting reel is either palmed or held behind the reel. The former is a neutral position the latter is in front of the fulcrum of the lever (Rod). The size and weight of a reel can of course affect the feel but I can't see a heavier reel balance a Rod unless you're fishing it from a foregrip. 

[Raul]

Well, adding weight ain´t gonna make it lighter since you´re adding weight.

My lightest setup is TDZ/Pixy/Chronarch 50 Mg paired to a GLoomis CR723 IMX, less than at around 9.7 ounces I doubt you can get lighter than that.

[Team9nine]

50 minutes ago, QUAKEnSHAKE said:

If it makes it more balanced it will help with sensitivity. Why add 3-4oz to rod,with reel, when 1/2-3/4 will do the same the less weight added overall the better.

DVT quote http://www.bassresource.com/bass-fishing-forums/topic/86950-tip-heavy/?p=991184

"Weight added anywhere on the blank has a negative affect on sensitivity. With that said, a small amount of weight on the butt area would have the least affect and admittedly probably less that human hands could detect"

See highlighting above - you simply can't add more sensitivity to a rod by also adding more weight. Any weight added beyond the original weight of the blank (guides, resin, wraps, handle material, balancing kits, etc.) will decrease sensitivity whether you can detect it or not (it would be measureable). See DVT's bolded quote above. As DVT also stated (above) though, if you are going to add weight for better balance (ergonomics), the further from the tip the weight can be added, the better. It will require less and be the least (but not zero) detrimental.

Quote

quote from: http://www.fishing-tackle-repair.com/rod-crafting/resource/articles/rod-balancing.html

 

"Jump Lures
Jigs, Worms, Spoons, etc. These are slack line techniques and tip heavy rods can be made more sensitive by adding weight to the butt."

 

The above bolding is part of the misinformation being disseminated as DVT mentioned below in his comment. They can be made more balanced, but not more sensitive.

 

42 minutes ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

I agree completely. An appropriate handle design on a quality blank with the right drive train will balance as well as can be expected. Paying for all this and adding extra weight is counter intuitive.

A lot of our perceptions of sensitivity , fatigue, stretchiness, smoothness etc are rooted in misinformation disseminated in the form of marketing and comments by "tournament pros" repeated so many times it's taken as fact. This whole game is all about personal preferences at the end of the day and you should do what works for you. For me, adding weight to nearly any rod is avoided.

That said, I weigh all my rods since that information is rarely publshed. reel weight is actually pretty easy to find though. My spinning rods (all 6'-7' rods) range from 2.8 to 4.1 ounces. My baitcasters range from 3.9 to 6.2 ounces. Not of these are crazy high dollar rods. In fact, some of my best balanced rods are the least expensive rods I own, but that certainly doesn't make them the most sensitive.

-T9

[QUAKEnSHAKE]

3 hours ago, 5fishlimit said:

14 hours ago, QUAKEnSHAKE said:

Balance is negated the higher you position the tip of your rod during actual fishing. The overall weight of the rod/reel comes into play more if say your tip is pointed high like /    Balance will show itself more the closer to parallel you get, holding rod straight out ---

So if bottom contact fishing with tip high balance isnt going to be as important as lightweight combo.

Sensitivity is effected more by weight and stiffness than balance. The lighter stiffer you get the more sensitive something is.

 

8 minutes ago, Team9nine said:

See highlighting above - you simply can't add more sensitivity to a rod by also adding more weight. Any weight added beyond the original weight of the blank (guides, resin, wraps, handle material, balancing kits, etc.) will decrease sensitivity whether you can detect it or not (it would be measureable).

-T9

I've never held, or heard of, a rod that would balance right at the reel seat with no reel mounted on the rod.

I replied the same see my underlined bold text

 

[Team9nine]

2 minutes ago, QUAKEnSHAKE said:

I replied the same see my underlined bold text

 

Yep, it is all a mass-modulus (stiffness) thing. Every little bit of weight you add beyond that can only decrease resonant frequency, but it might increase your own personal "fishability" factor

-T9 

[kickerfish1]

Interesting how a question directed towards "light weight" shifted more towards balance. OP hopefully there are enough pieces of info here to help you out some.

[cottny27]

If your palming a reel the reel is in the middle of your hand directly over the reel seat (fulcrum point).  If you haven't tried adding a little weight to the butt then you are missing out.  Throwing a reel on there that's 9oz to try to balance is ridiculous.  

[rippin-lips]

^^^ see Mike's answer above, or do a little reading. It's counter productive. To make it plain to understand - it's a dumb idea. 

[cottny27]

7 minutes ago, rippin-lips said:

^^^ see Mike's answer above, or do a little reading. It's counter productive. To make it plain to understand - it's a dumb idea. 

Its how I like it. Just like you like dressing your reels with purple accents..dumb

[rippin-lips]

And that's great if that's what you prefer but spreading misinformation around by saying to add weight the butt is not great. It's a last resort and should be avoided if at all possible.  Have a nice day. 

[IAY]

Just now, rippin-lips said:

And that's great if that's what you prefer but spreading misinformation around by saying to add weight the butt is not great. It's a last resort and should be avoided if at all possible.  

I would agree with you on most cases except for swimbait rods. Some of the sticks are very heavy and hard to balance even with 12 oz plus reel. The benefit from having easier casting will outweigh the loss of sensitivity imo. Most of the swimbait strikes are big hammering hits anyways.

[rippin-lips]

18 minutes ago, IAY said:

I would agree with you on most cases except for swimbait rods. Some of the sticks are very heavy and hard to balance even with 12 oz plus reel. The benefit from having easier casting will outweigh the loss of sensitivity imo. Most of the swimbait strikes are big hammering hits anyways.

Yes,totally with you there. My 7'11 H guide select with Cardiff 301 is not light by any means.  In terms of general freshwater gear though we are on the same page.