Canoe vs. Kayak... A custom builder's conundrum.

[Goose52]

A good starting point - sorta like A-Jay's and Fishing Rhino's boats.

Have you measured the actual length yet?  It looks a bit longer than 14 feet.

Have fun !

[Racerx]

I have both.  Started in a 4-person Pelican, two years ago and got tired of hauling it myself, so I bought a kayak, last winter.  I love my kayak, but if I had the money, I'd buy one of those solo canoes.  Sometimes, given the limitations of the deck layout of whatever kayak you have, you may run into issues, being able to efficiently rig your kayak.  With a canoe, you have this big, open hull. The Old Town Next solo canoes look nice, but reach shy of $1k!. Stability is never an issue with either for me, cause I outfitted both to run outriggers, if needed.  Makes a world of difference, especially to someone still developing their sea legs. 

[bassinshankles]

I too fish from a canoe I have old plastic Coleman RamX 15 that I have modified quite a bit. I Dropped factory bench seat adding a swivel and padded seat with back rest. Anchor trolley on both sides a board I call a dash to have work space other than my lap and floor of canoe. I got yak gear out riggers and now a tm minn kota traxxis 55lb. I use 31 series battery and a cooler for live well. I fish hydroelectric lakes most over 30000 acres of water. You can see my video don't have one with tm yet 

 

[A-Jay]

On 2/9/2016 at 1:55 AM, bassinshankles said:

I too fish from a canoe I have old plastic Coleman RamX 15 that I have modified quite a bit. I Dropped factory bench seat adding a swivel and padded seat with back rest. Anchor trolley on both sides a board I call a dash to have work space other than my lap and floor of canoe. I got yak gear out riggers and now a tm minn kota traxxis 55lb. I use 31 series battery and a cooler for live well. I fish hydroelectric lakes most over 30000 acres of water. You can see my video don't have one with tm yet 

 

Sweet Rig ~  I bet you're really enjoying that Minn Kota 55 . . . .

A-Jay

[Neil McCauley]

Canoe is the way to go. Faster than jon boats and rowboats with the same motor, much more versatile and functional than kayaks. $20k less than a bass boat. 

Stability really isn't much of an issue. Even in the downright stupid conditions I've gotten caught in with mine it held up OK. The large lake I fish most of the time gets very choppy mid-day with all the speed boats and cruise ships. But as long as the wind is <8mph I am usually good to go. Wind 7-8mph can make traveling into the wind a little bouncy. Fishing standing up is usually easy, the times it is tricky is with another person on board because movements are less predictable.

As far as propulsion, the 55lb thrust minn kota tm I have seems ideal on my 14.5' Old Town Guide. I had the 30 lb for a few years and it was fine, but the 55 is a noticeable difference in terms of torquey acceleration and battery life. Ironically I think the 30 got about the same cruising speed as my 55, ~3.5-4.0 mph, but I can get around 20mi from one group 27 battery with the 55, more like 15mi for the 30.

If you plan on using a motor then put some real thought/time into the mount. Especially for the 55lb thrust motor because its magnet is much heavier than the 30 and it will put a lot of stress on the mount. What you want boils down to one word: overbuilt. I wouldn't trus commercially made mounts personally. Mine is a beefed up version of this basic design ( http://oi65.tinypic.com/2u9oo3o.jpg ) using 1" thick oak boards, 1/2" dia carriage bolts and stronger L-braces.

I didn't find the battery box very useful. On my MK Power Center the battery meter was never very accurate and it does take up some extra space. Aside from the circuit breakers I didn't see the point of it so I leave it home now that I have 2 batteries. 

Some other things I have are the bullnose rudder and a tracking fin/skeg on the bottom to improve tracking. For better cruising efficiency I got a kipawa weedless prop with larger angle propeller, but it's hard to tell the difference. Also worth getting are portable bow/stern navigation lights for nights/early mornings or if you just get stranded after dark.

Next plans are for a fish finder mount and a tool/lure caddy that can attach to the canoe yoke.
 

[scaleface]

I have a 14 foot Old Town Guide that I fish solo . Weight distribution is my problem .. I sit in the front seat and travel backwards but it still has to much weight on that end . I have found it impossible to turn it around in a 10 mph wind . 

[Neil McCauley]

2 hours ago, scaleface said:

I have a 14 foot Old Town Guide that I fish solo . Weight distribution is my problem .. I sit in the front seat and travel backwards but it still has to much weight on that end . I have found it impossible to turn it around in a 10 mph wind . 

Put a 75 lb marine battery up front.

[scaleface]

22 minutes ago, Neil McCauley said:

Put a 75 lb marine battery up front.

Im not carrying a heavy battery around . 

[Goose52]

14 minutes ago, scaleface said:

Im not carrying a heavy battery around . 

Many folks just bring a 5-gallon white bucket and lid with them. Just before you launch, fill the bucket with water and place as far in front of you as possible. When you land, empty the bucket and you have a container to put some of your gear in as you're packing up. It puts around 40 pounds in front of you and might be enough to get the bow down.

[scaleface]

8 minutes ago, Goose52 said:

Many folks just bring a 5-gallon white bucket and lid with them. Just before you launch, fill the bucket with water and place as far in front of you as possible. When you land, empty the bucket and you have a container to put some of your gear in as you're packing up. It puts around 40 pounds in front of you and might be enough to get the bow down.

Now , why didnt I think of that . 

[WPCfishing]

Hi guys, I think I can add some advice so I'll chime in. First off  I have my canoe set up in the reverse for better weight distribution.

I think having a 30# thrust trolling motor up front is the bomb. I can get anywhere I want to be with excellent visability and I can cast out without obstruction. The other benefit is a t motor can pull a lot better than they can push, I can get the canoe through some seriously heavy matts, weeds, reeds... 

As for stability, My canoe hull is a shallow v design. It tracks really well and it's fantastic in rough water, much like a boat. No slapping at all, it cuts well. I can stand and fish in it all day from the back or front. I do use a stabilizer I made when the winds are up, it's easy on and off .

Last year I had a 55# Rip Tide on it for power. I installed a Bullnose Rudder on the shaft, the rudder made tracking and steering a lot better in either direction, It also slowed movement left or right at the back of the canoe and most importantly it kept weeds off the prop. I highly recommend the Bullnose Rudder.

I place the batteries up front to balance weight, I made 6 gauge cables with Anderson plugs for battery connections.

I mounted two triple rod holders to the back side of the motor mount. Easy access and they're safe. My tackle bags are either under my seat or under the yoke. That keeps my floor space open so I can move from back to front with ease.

I have two sets of anchor line spools I made, The lines pass thru blocks I drilled out and mounted to the decks. The anchors are weighted dog training bumpers.

I have gym mats on the floor of the canoe to protect the hull from wear and it's easy on the lowers.

The second seat has been removed, If I take someone fishing I have a padded wooden box for them to sit on.

Now, All that has changed.... I haven't decided exactly how I will set the canoe up for this season.

I bought a Yamaha gas motor to get from A to B quicker.

 

Some of you have seen this video but I figured I'd post it again so others can see just how good a canoe can be in rough water.

 

[WPCfishing]

30# t motor pulling thru cover.

 

 

[Neil McCauley]

Couple little things I got on amazon recently:

 

Quick Release battery terminals, to change batteries easily.

And 6-10ga connection plugs between the TM wire and battery cable.

Bunch of 1.5" nylon cable clamps:



Use these to run your 6 ga battery cable bow-to-stern fastened permanently inside the gunwales and out of the way. Each trip just plug the TM and batteries in, instead of re-rigging the cable.

[Dye99]

I can respect those that use a canoe to fish out of. I did a few tourneys in the 90s in a canoe, I grew up fishing canoes, and my family used to do a Brazos river canoe trip every year growing up. Its bred into my being.

I still own two tupperware canoes, and a custom wood hand built, so its part of my fishing arsenal. 

With that said, there is no way that I would fish a canoe on a regular basis if I have a kayak. I have a few different yak's but my main fishing rig is the ATAK, and I have to say, its so much easier than maneuvering a canoe around.

The weight, maneuverability, load capacity being stored correctly, ease of use, stability, ease of electronic's, the aspect of moving to and from the water on different vehicles if need be without a trailer, storing gear in it when I am traveling, and the ability to find parts for customizing all lead me back to the Kayak.

I think at one point I just decided, is having a canoe all geared out, why not get a jon boat, or a smaller bass boat? 

The main reason I went to a yak was ease, and the canoe doesnt do that for me.

 

But again, I fish at least 100 times a year, and as a family man, I take my kids out in the canoes all the time so I love em for that, camping and trips, and love to hear how you guys love to fish out of yours, its just for me, there is no way I would give my yak up for a full time canoe...

[Master Bait'r]

11 hours ago, Dye99 said:

I can respect those that use a canoe to fish out of. I did a few tourneys in the 90s in a canoe, I grew up fishing canoes, and my family used to do a Brazos river canoe trip every year growing up. Its bred into my being.

I still own two tupperware canoes, and a custom wood hand built, so its part of my fishing arsenal. 

With that said, there is no way that I would fish a canoe on a regular basis if I have a kayak. I have a few different yak's but my main fishing rig is the ATAK, and I have to say, its so much easier than maneuvering a canoe around.

The weight, maneuverability, load capacity being stored correctly, ease of use, stability, ease of electronic's, the aspect of moving to and from the water on different vehicles if need be without a trailer, storing gear in it when I am traveling, and the ability to find parts for customizing all lead me back to the Kayak.

I think at one point I just decided, is having a canoe all geared out, why not get a jon boat, or a smaller bass boat? 

The main reason I went to a yak was ease, and the canoe doesnt do that for me.

 

But again, I fish at least 100 times a year, and as a family man, I take my kids out in the canoes all the time so I love em for that, camping and trips, and love to hear how you guys love to fish out of yours, its just for me, there is no way I would give my yak up for a full time canoe...

 

Yeah I totally hear you, this was kind of my attempt to avoid spending a grand.  I bought it so cheap that if I end up selling it I will likely make money given the improvements I'm making as well.  

 

I am having trouble figuring out how to easily get it to and from the water given my small SUV.  A trailer seems to be the only real option- that or a trailer hitch gusset type rig.  Not exactly ideal but I am at least going to try, as I really love the layout of this boat and want it to work.  Maybe I can figure out how to make a "wheel in the keel" adaptation to a pontoon kit or something.  Time will tell I guess.  

[A-Jay]

6 minutes ago, Master Bait'r said:

 

Yeah I totally hear you, this was kind of my attempt to avoid spending a grand.  I bought it so cheap that if I end up selling it I will likely make money given the improvements I'm making as well.  

 

I am having trouble figuring out how to easily get it to and from the water given my small SUV.  A trailer seems to be the only real option- that or a trailer hitch gusset type rig.  Not exactly ideal but I am at least going to try, as I really love the layout of this boat and want it to work.  Maybe I can figure out how to make a "wheel in the keel" adaptation to a pontoon kit or something.  Time will tell I guess.  

I'd encourage you to stop fighting it - just get the little trailer.  Why not take the hassle of loading & unloading & launching & recovering your vessel COMPLETELY OUT OF PLAY ?    The ease and convenience of solo angling this way is IMO well worth the few bucks it costs.  Over the life of the trailer, when considering all the trips you'll make with it, the $$ will be a complete after thought. 

A-Jay

http://www.castlecraft.com/canoe_trailer.htm

[Master Bait'r]

39 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

I'd encourage you to stop fighting it - just get the little trailer.  Why not take the hassle of loading & unloading & launching & recovering your vessel COMPLETELY OUT OF PLAY ?    The ease and convenience of solo angling this way is IMO well worth the few bucks it costs.  Over the life of the trailer, when considering all the trips you'll make with it, the $$ will be a complete after thought. 

A-Jay

http://www.castlecraft.com/canoe_trailer.htm

 

Well I already have a light trailer for my '12 jon boat so you're definitely right- that is happening.  I want to Quabbin seal the 12' tho, and that means it would be exclusive to that lake when that happens and I could no longer use it.  It was just nice sticking the yak in the hatch, running a ratchet strap through it and being done.  I'm just thinking of how to make an integrated dolly/hitch gusset/anchor point dealio to handle all my concerns in one.  I like doing that kind of thing.  Being inventive and engineering for specific purpose is totally in my wheelhouse.  I've got a basic idea in mind already and I'll def share some drawings when I get them down.

[A-Jay]

1 hour ago, Master Bait'r said:

 

Well I already have a light trailer for my '12 jon boat so you're definitely right- that is happening.  I want to Quabbin seal the 12' tho, and that means it would be exclusive to that lake when that happens and I could no longer use it.  It was just nice sticking the yak in the hatch, running a ratchet strap through it and being done.  I'm just thinking of how to make an integrated dolly/hitch gusset/anchor point dealio to handle all my concerns in one.  I like doing that kind of thing.  Being inventive and engineering for specific purpose is totally in my wheelhouse.  I've got a basic idea in mind already and I'll def share some drawings when I get them down.

I hear ya ~   and making an integrated dolly/hitch gusset/anchor point dealio definitely sounds inventive and extra engineering.

A-Jay

[Goose52]

14 hours ago, Dye99 said:

I can respect those that use a canoe to fish out of. I did a few tourneys in the 90s in a canoe, I grew up fishing canoes, and my family used to do a Brazos river canoe trip every year growing up. Its bred into my being.

I still own two tupperware canoes, and a custom wood hand built, so its part of my fishing arsenal. 

With that said, there is no way that I would fish a canoe on a regular basis if I have a kayak. I have a few different yak's but my main fishing rig is the ATAK, and I have to say, its so much easier than maneuvering a canoe around.

The weight, maneuverability, load capacity being stored correctly, ease of use, stability, ease of electronic's, the aspect of moving to and from the water on different vehicles if need be without a trailer, storing gear in it when I am traveling, and the ability to find parts for customizing all lead me back to the Kayak.

I think at one point I just decided, is having a canoe all geared out, why not get a jon boat, or a smaller bass boat? 

The main reason I went to a yak was ease, and the canoe doesnt do that for me.

 

But again, I fish at least 100 times a year, and as a family man, I take my kids out in the canoes all the time so I love em for that, camping and trips, and love to hear how you guys love to fish out of yours, its just for me, there is no way I would give my yak up for a full time canoe...

For sure - kayaks are nifty watercraft and work for many anglers. For me, not so much. I looked at all watercraft from float tubes to bass boats, using specific selection criteria: I needed something car-topable without a special rack, modular, very light weight, with as much capability as possible. I wanted stability so I could stand and fish all day, lots of inboard storage, motorized, and little to no maintenance. I didn't want to have to buy a truck or other tow vehicle, I didn't want to consume a garage bay or driveway space with a boat and trailer, didn't want high expense and high maintenance, and didn't want to use gasoline power. Taking everything into account, I ended up with a canoe, trolling motor, and outriggers for stability.

Now, some would say that a motorized kayak would meet the above criteria. BUT, in comparison to my final selection, kayaks are generally too heavy, don't have enough storage (especially "inboard" storage - meaning below the level of the gunwales where stuff can't fall out), and require specialized racks for transport.

My bare hull weighs 34 pounds. My beam is 38 inches - lots of inboard room. Transportability? No special rack needed, no lifting aid needed - I just pick it up and put it on the roof of the vehicle. Now, I'm only 63 and someday when I get "old" I might have to get a special rack and a lifting aid - that will be a few years down the road hopefully.

Room - especially standing room? I've got some:

Ease of rigging electronics? It's horrible - sometimes it takes me as long as 30 seconds to get my sonar out of the car and rigged on the boat:

Transportability? Throw it on the roof and strap it down - AND, enough clearance to drive into the garage and be ready to leave the next day:

Storage? Along one sidewall of the garage and still have room for a vehicle in that bay:

So, those are some of the reasons why I did not buy a jon boat or small bass boat.

AND, another benefit of having a lot of inboard room is that you don't have to handle fish like this in your LAP...

Some types of small watercraft (canoes, kayaks, bass raiders, float tubes, pontoons, inflatables, etc.) are perfect for some people. No one type of small watercraft is perfect for all people. 

 

Different "floats" for different folks...  It's all good...

 

 

 

 

[A-Jay]

40 minutes ago, Goose52 said:

For sure - kayaks are nifty watercraft and work for many anglers. For me, not so much. I looked at all watercraft from float tubes to bass boats, using specific selection criteria: I needed something car-topable without a special rack, modular, very light weight, with as much capability as possible. I wanted stability so I could stand and fish all day, lots of inboard storage, motorized, and little to no maintenance. I didn't want to have to buy a truck or other tow vehicle, I didn't want to consume a garage bay or driveway space with a boat and trailer, didn't want high expense and high maintenance, and didn't want to use gasoline power. Taking everything into account, I ended up with a canoe, trolling motor, and outriggers for stability.

Now, some would say that a motorized kayak would meet the above criteria. BUT, in comparison to my final selection, kayaks are generally too heavy, don't have enough storage (especially "inboard" storage - meaning below the level of the gunwales where stuff can't fall out), and require specialized racks for transport.

My bare hull weighs 34 pounds. My beam is 38 inches - lots of inboard room. Transportability? No special rack needed, no lifting aid needed - I just pick it up and put it on the roof of the vehicle. Now, I'm only 63 and someday when I get "old" I might have to get a special rack and a lifting aid - that will be a few years down the road hopefully.

Room - especially standing room? I've got some:

Ease of rigging electronics? It's horrible - sometimes it takes me as long as 30 seconds to get my sonar out of the car and rigged on the boat:

Transportability? Throw it on the roof and strap it down - AND, enough clearance to drive into the garage and be ready to leave the next day:

Storage? Along one sidewall of the garage and still have room for a vehicle in that bay:

So, those are some of the reasons why I did not buy a jon boat or small bass boat.

AND, another benefit of having a lot of inboard room is that you don't have to handle fish like this in your LAP...

Some types of small watercraft (canoes, kayaks, bass raiders, float tubes, pontoons, inflatables, etc.) are perfect for some people. No one type of small watercraft is perfect for all people. 

 

Different "floats" for different folks...  It's all good...

 

 

 

 

I just have to say this ~ You're The Man.

A-Jay

[Goose52]

3 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

I just have to say this ~ You're The Man.

A-Jay

Yeah - but I can't dance a jig in my boat the way you can in yours - don't have those sea-legs like you have...

[A-Jay]

1 minute ago, Goose52 said:

Yeah - but I can't dance a jig in my boat the way you can in yours - don't have those sea-legs like you have...

 Fair enough ~ but please know, That's Never By Design !

A-Jay

[WPCfishing]

2 hours ago, Goose52 said:

For sure - kayaks are nifty watercraft and work for many anglers. For me, not so much. I looked at all watercraft from float tubes to bass boats, using specific selection criteria: I needed something car-topable without a special rack, modular, very light weight, with as much capability as possible. I wanted stability so I could stand and fish all day, lots of inboard storage, motorized, and little to no maintenance. I didn't want to have to buy a truck or other tow vehicle, I didn't want to consume a garage bay or driveway space with a boat and trailer, didn't want high expense and high maintenance, and didn't want to use gasoline power. Taking everything into account, I ended up with a canoe, trolling motor, and outriggers for stability.

Now, some would say that a motorized kayak would meet the above criteria. BUT, in comparison to my final selection, kayaks are generally too heavy, don't have enough storage (especially "inboard" storage - meaning below the level of the gunwales where stuff can't fall out), and require specialized racks for transport.

My bare hull weighs 34 pounds. My beam is 38 inches - lots of inboard room. Transportability? No special rack needed, no lifting aid needed - I just pick it up and put it on the roof of the vehicle. Now, I'm only 63 and someday when I get "old" I might have to get a special rack and a lifting aid - that will be a few years down the road hopefully.

Room - especially standing room? I've got some:

Ease of rigging electronics? It's horrible - sometimes it takes me as long as 30 seconds to get my sonar out of the car and rigged on the boat:

Transportability? Throw it on the roof and strap it down - AND, enough clearance to drive into the garage and be ready to leave the next day:

Storage? Along one sidewall of the garage and still have room for a vehicle in that bay:

So, those are some of the reasons why I did not buy a jon boat or small bass boat.

AND, another benefit of having a lot of inboard room is that you don't have to handle fish like this in your LAP...Some types of small watercraft (canoes, kayaks, bass raiders, float tubes, pontoons, inflatables, etc.) are perfect for some people. No one type of small watercraft is perfect for all people. 

 

Different "floats" for different folks...  It's all good...

 

 

 

 

Goose You're a neat freak........ Very Nice.

 

Wayne

[Goose52]

34 minutes ago, WPCfishing said:

Goose You're a neat freak........ Very Nice.

 

Wayne

Thanks,

... and I'm a "Wayne" too...

[WPCfishing]

1 minute ago, Goose52 said:

Thanks,

... and I'm a "Wayne" too...

small mouth... opps, I mean small world!