Pete Rose in the Reds hall of fame?

[bigbill]

Pete Rose in the Reds hall of fame? Or Reds hall of shame? Tell me it's not so? It's like Ali betting on the other guy and take a dive. I just don't get it. What do you say?

sorry fixed it, brain fade.

[Jake the Cake]

I feel like he should be in the HoF if and only if he didn't bet against himself or throw a game.  BUT the rules do clearly state you can't bet on baseball while playing, managing, broadcasting, etc and not only did he do that, he continues to do that knowing the consequences.

I can't feel too bad for a guy that continues to knowingly drive his own HoF chances into the ground.  Should have made changes a long time ago if he actually wanted to be reinstated.  Seems to me he doesn't mind not being a part of it

[Choporoz]

Why would someone bet on himself and then take a dive?

[bigbill]

1 hour ago, Choporoz said:

Why would someone bet on himself and then take a dive?

Sorry fixed it.

[F14A-B]

I saw him play alot with the big red machine.

We should be talking about Johnny Bench, Dave Concepcion, George Foster, Joe Morgan 

Tony Perez..

Instead, we continue to talk about a great baseball player, that bet on his team..(lots of times.). I say hell no, no way should he get it, not ever, not ever.

Induction into Wikipedia, that's about right.

[bigbill]

Should they let Mark Walberg off for his felony? He made a mistake when he was younger. My point is when we do bad things we pay the rest of our lives we live with it, it comes back over and over to haunt us.

with Pete Rose they should let the sport fans do a online vote on him for the hall of fame? Put the vote to the public. He could of been the greatest baseball player of our time. It's time to put it to bed.

[F14A-B]

Why? How many sports fan's actually would be aware of the Reds during this era? I was fortunate to be able to go to riverfront stadium & see the team, many, many times. 

Pete Rose wasn't a juvenile he was a full grown, professional baseball player & Manager that laid odds, with money & property on his team & others.

When we make decisions, we cannot undo those choices, those choices are forever ours..

I vote no..

[Molay1292]

Hall of Fame is for great baseball players, not great people.   It is a history of baseball's greatest players and their accomplishments.  I think the guy that leads all of baseball in hits should have his place in the HOF, as well as the Red's HOF, the Big Red Machine would have been missing a major cog without Pete Rose.

[Choporoz]

58 minutes ago, bigbill said:

Sorry fixed it.

In my head, my reply wasn't about pointing out the flaw in your post....so much as to say (without saying) that your comment was more accurate before you fixed it....that is, I am not aware that Rose bet against his team.  I am not for a second saying that what he did was OK.  It wasn't.  But, IF he only bet on his teams to win, then I fault him for personal integrity and rules violations, but not necessarily for sabotaging the integrity of baseball.  I think he belongs in the HOF. 

     If, on the other hand, he bet against his team(s), and was in a position to facilitate a loss (or even throw some runs against the spread), then I find the argument more difficult. 

[5fishlimit]

I say let him in.  He is the all time hits leader.  If Hank Aaron says that he would vote Pete Rose in then who are any of us to argue?

[roadwarrior]

NO!

NEVER.

                                                                              

[mrmacwvu1]

As much as I loved the man as a player, I say no.

For the record he was my favorite player growing up and I am still a diehard Reds fan.

However there has been one rule in baseball that is not to be broken since the days of the blacksox.

You do not gamble on baseball. He knew it, he broke it and now he has to live with it.

Baseball almost died after the Blacksox scandal. It took a larger the life figure who had his own demons to save the sport. Without George Herman it is hard to tell what would have happened to baseball.

 

[Buckeye Ron]

Long time former fan of Charlie Hustle here that saw him many times in his prime during the Big Red Machine days. As much as I loved his playing style and enthusiasm for the game I just can't overlook the many bad decisions he made as a player/manager,especially associating with known book makers. IMO,Pete believed he was above the rules and lived his baseball life accordingly. He clearly violated the single most important rule in all of baseball: Rule 21,which is about as straightforward as any rule could be.

The rule says: "Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanantly ineligible."

No part of the rule makes a distinction as to which games you bet on,it's all inclusive.

As much as I admired him as a player at one time I really could care less about his relationship with baseball these days. I haven't attended or even watched a game since the last strike,whenever that was. Drugs,greed,all of it turned me completely against the game.

I do believe Pete was one of the all time greats of the game,unfortunately by his own actions he disqualified himself from the games highest honor.No amount of wishful thinking can ever change that.

[5fishlimit]

When it comes to telling the story of professional baseball you cannot do so without including Pete Rose in the conversation.  For that reason he does belong.  The same with McGuire, Sosa, and Bonds.  Nobody was complaining as those guys were smashing home run after home run, because it made the game of baseball exciting again.

Also, aside from Pete Rose's own admissions there is ZERO proof of his wrong doing.  No person has come forth saying they took bets from Rose.  

[Choporoz]

1 minute ago, 5fishlimit said:

Also, aside from Pete Rose's own admissions there is ZERO proof of his wrong doing.  No person has come forth saying they took bets from Rose.  

Aside? 

If he's admitted it...and he has...then what's the point of finding a person who took a bet from him?

[Evan K]

I think it's a terrible shame that he did what he did, but he was not ignorant of the rules, and knew that it would cost him a place in the HOF.

He made a choice that he regrets now, but he's a grown-up and must live with the consequences.

[5fishlimit]

1 minute ago, Choporoz said:

Aside? 

If he's admitted it...and he has...then what's the point of finding a person who took a bet from him?

I see it no differently than if you were to say you caught a 20# bass.  Without proof there is no merit to what you said.  Even in the admission of guilt I believe that proof must be provided to back up that claim.  

Who's to say that a conversation behind closed doors didn't take place with Rose saying that if he admitted his guilt then he would be welcomed back into baseball?

 

[Choporoz]

Huh?

 

That analogy doesn't make any sense at all.  Since when do confessions require a trial to back them up? 

 

And what closed doors?  ABC News isn't exactly a clandestine operation.

[Al Wolbach]

I loved to watch him play but I'm neutral about his HOF admission. Does one more black spot matter to professional baseball? Or does his play say enough? I do feel sorry for Red's fans.

[5fishlimit]

1 hour ago, Choporoz said:

Huh?

 

That analogy doesn't make any sense at all.  Since when do confessions require a trial to back them up? 

 

And what closed doors?  ABC News isn't exactly a clandestine operation.

In regards to the "closed door" comment I was in no way referring to ABC News, but rather a closed door conversation that Rose apparently had with the commissioner that if he admitted his wrongdoing he would be eventually forgiven.

Giamatti, the commissioner also was quoted as saying the following:   "In absence of evidence to the contrary . . . yes, I have concluded that he bet on baseball," Giamatti says.

Here's an excerpt from Rolling Stone Magazine that might clear things up for you a bit.

What I do have a problem with, however, is the way that the BBWAA and the Hall of Fame inserted themselves into the Pete Rose mess. There have only been two changes to the HOF voting process since 1985: the aforementioned 1991 rule change banning players on the ineligible list from being included on the Hall ballot, and this year's announcement that a player's maximum length of stay on the ballot will be reduced from 15 years to 10. In both cases, the changes were clearly intended to send a "message." Though it didn't explicitly mention him, the 1991 decision was obviously aimed at Rose (there wasn't anyone else on the ineligible list at the time), while the latest change will hurry the steroids-era players off the ballot with a "nothing to see here, folks" officiousness, thus ostensibly keeping the Hall from being tainted by all that nasty PED business.

Except, as anyone who has done the slightest bit of research into the lives and careers of Ty Cobb, Rogers Hornsby, Babe Ruth, Tris Speaker, Rube Waddell, etc. can tell you, it's not a Hall of Saints at Cooperstown. All manner of bigots, boozers, dopers, cheaters, womanizers and wife-beaters are enshrined therein, because they were the best players of their respective eras. And yet, Pete Rose – certainly one of the greatest players of his day, and holder of one of baseball's loftiest records – is banned from even being considered for enshrinement because of his infractions as a manager.

Sure, the "character clause" in the BBWAA election rules encourages the voters to consider the player's "integrity, sportsmanship, character and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played." But let's face it: Roberto Clemente's humanitarian credentials wouldn't have meant squat to the voters if he'd hit like Tito Fuentes. Ultimately, the Hall Of Fame is (and should be) a museum, not a monument to morality; if an art museum doesn't take Pablo Picasso's personal peccadillos into account when displaying his paintings, then the BBWAA shouldn't be factoring a player's "character" into the equation when they're voting on whose plaque to install in the HOF gallery. And since there's never been any proof that Pete Rose bet on baseball during his playing days, his transgressions as a manager shouldn't keep him from being enshrined in the Hall with the rest of baseball's greats.

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/time-served-why-pete-rose-should-be-in-the-hall-of-fame-20140822#ixzz3xuAIeObz 
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook

[5fishlimit]

Just now, 5fishlimit said:

Since when do confessions require a trial to back them up?

So, if I walked into the police department and said that I murdered somebody would there not need to be a trial?  I don't think they would take it to trial unless there was clear and distinct evidence.  That is what is called judicial due process.

Pete Rose was never convicted of any crime relating to gambling. He did go to jail, but that was for improper filing of taxes.

[deaknh03]

Rose admitted to betting on other teams..not his own. Not a good thing but not anywhere near as bad as throwing games to win bets. Does anyone remember Michael Jordan testifying at a bookies trial because a large check from jordan was found on the bookie..jordan admitted under oath it was a gambling debt. He had many bookies and underworld guys coming out of the woodwork to say he paid them hundreds of thousands in gambling losses..then he "retired" to suck at baseball. Not to mention his dad was murdered under swirling  rumors and speculation that it was connected to michaels gambling debts.Jordan is in his hall..Rose should most certainly be in his,  he's not a saint but there are plenty like him in the hall already.

[Catt]

Here's an unbiased opinion from someone who does not like baseball.

When I look at all sports and the use of illegal drugs (excluding steroids) like amphetamines of all types which are used to enhance performance. Example: proscription drug Adderall (amphetamine/dextroamphetmine) which is widely proscribed for Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder; all ya had to do was tell a doctor ya got problems concentrating and bam ya got a script.

I wonder why y'all draw the line at gambling.