Few Canoe Buying Question

[Dypsis]

So I am in the VERY early stages of possibly getting a Canoe to fish out of.  Few questions:

I want to be able to take my 2 sons (when old enough) out with me.  I'm thinking one at a time.  What is the heaviest or longest Canoe you think that 1 person can paddle by themselves?  To many factors?

It's been a while since I've been in a Canoe - are they stable enough to fish standing up in?  I'm sure how rough the water is plays into this.

I am looking at something like this: http://www.cabelas.com/product/boating/canoes-kayaks-small-boats/canoes-kayaks%7C/pc/104794380/c/104710680/sc/104252580/old-town-guide-147-green-canoe/1992819.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fcanoes-kayaks%2F_%2FN-1100570%2B4294388331%2FNe-4294388331%3FWTz_st%3DGuidedNav%26WTz_stype%3DGNU

Thanks!

[buzzed bait]

we always had a canoe at my house as kids....  we had a pond big enough to put it in and had a blast.  BUT i've never been in one that felt all that stable to me.  there is a world of difference between a canoe and my sit on top kayak.  i can flip a canoe in an instant, but no matter how hard i try, the yak does not flip!

some other more experienced guys (a jay, goose, fishing rhino to name a few) can give you some better input, i'm certain!

[Goose52]

Canoes generally run up to 17-18 ft in length - capable of seating three. For fishing, two people might be a better number meaning a boat about 15-16 ft would do nicely.  One person CAN paddle a long canoe...but there's some tradeoffs. A single paddler can move a long canoe with a narrow beam relatively easily. The longer, narrow beam boats also track very well. BUT, that narrow beam also translates into less stability for standing. 

The type of boat you linked to is pretty common and many people paddle them solo.  You always have the option of motoring it at some later point.

Can you stand in a canoe? Maybe.  Again, depends on the beam, length, and weight of the boat. The wider the beam, longer the length, and heavier the boat, the more likely it will be stable enough for standing.  I expect that Board member A-Jay will be along later to chime-in but I've seen videos of him not only standing in the stern of his boat...but I think also dancing a jig when he gets a nice fish...

I stand all day in my canoe...but that's with outriggers. I have a very light, short boat (11'6") and the outriggers are really necessary for me. BUT, with the type of boat you are considering, you MIGHT feel comfortable enough to stand. Just keep in mind that rolling the boat not only places the people on board in jeopardy...but also sends all your gear to the bottom...

Of course, start thinking about all the other considerations like how are you going to transport the boat (car-top, truck, trailer, etc), where are you going to store it, etc.  Your boat selection might be affected by how much weight you can lift and how big a boat you can store.

Ask any other questions you might have.

[Dypsis]

4 minutes ago, buzzed bait said:

we always had a canoe at my house as kids....  we had a pond big enough to put it in and had a blast.  BUT i've never been in one that felt all that stable to me.  there is a world of difference between a canoe and my sit on top kayak.  i can flip a canoe in an instant, but no matter how hard i try, the yak does not flip!

some other more experienced guys (a jay, goose, fishing rhino to name a few) can give you some better input, i'm certain!

Thanks Justin.  I originally wanted a sit on top Kayak, but kind of want something that I can bring a kid along with.  But maybe its they way to go.  Like I said I am very early in this decision making process and those fairly important questions came up.  

That worries me about the stability issue with the kids, however, I feel like A-Jay runs marathons in his???

PS - Shipping today.

[Dypsis]

5 minutes ago, Goose52 said:

Canoes generally run up to 17-18 ft in length - capable of seating three. For fishing, two people might be a better number meaning a boat about 15-16 ft would do nicely.  One person CAN paddle a long canoe...but there's some tradeoffs. A single paddler can move a long canoe with a narrow beam relatively easily. The longer, narrow beam boats also track very well. BUT, that narrow beam also translates into less stability for standing. 

The type of boat you linked to is pretty common and many people paddle them solo.  You always have the option of motoring it at some later point.

Can you stand in a canoe? Maybe.  Again, depends on the beam, length, and weight of the boat. The wider the beam, longer the length, and heavier the boat, the more likely it will be stable enough for standing.  I expect that Board member A-Jay will be along later to chime-in but I've seen videos of him not only standing in the stern of his boat...but I think also dancing a jig when he gets a nice fish...

I stand all day in my canoe...but that's with outriggers. I have a very light, short boat (11'6") and the outriggers are really necessary for me. BUT, with the type of boat you are considering, you MIGHT feel comfortable enough to stand. Just keep in mind that rolling the boat not only places the people on board in jeopardy...but also sends all your gear to the bottom...

Of course, start thinking about all the other considerations like how are you going to transport the boat (car-top, truck, trailer, etc), where are you going to store it, etc.  Your boat selection might be affected by how much weight you can lift and how big a boat you can store.

Ask any other questions you might have.

Thanks Goose, very informative post.  Since both you and BB seem to think a regular canoe like the one I posted has stability issues then especially since I want be bring a kid - might not be the way to go.  Safety is the most important aspect if the kids were to come along.  

I have a 1500 short bed that I am hoping I could use to transport it around in.  There is a lake about 2-250 acres that I really like to bank fish from and a canoe/kayak would be perfect for (no gas powered engines).  

Don't worry, many more questions will come!

PS - Thinking of grabbing a Met DC XG - any fianl thoughts now that you have had yours for a full season now.  Use - T-Rig & Jigs 3/8oz and under.

[Goose52]

I didn't say that the canoe you linked to has stability issues...it may be pretty stable as it's a somewhat heavy boat with a 38" beam. I just can't CONFIRM that it would be stable.  A-Jay's boat is only (I think) about 15'6" or so, with probably a similar beam, and is very stable so there's one data point.

The Met DC ? Great reel. I now have it on a Loomis Edge 705-1 rod and the combination of the two is very versatile - one of those combos that will usually always be in the boat. My Met DC is the regular model however, not the XG.  For you, the XG gearing should work fine with those bottom presentations.

[WPCfishing]

There a some really nice Fishing canoes available these days. All very wide for stability and space.  Do a web search. Also I highly recommend at least a 55# trolling motor and a 105 amp marine battery. 

You may want to check Craigslist for a nice used canoe too. 

[Fishes in trees]

I have always thought that standing up in a canoe is a bad idea.  If you are looking for stability, safety, something you can stand in and something fishable get a pond boat.   A BPS pond prowler or something similar.  2 people can fish out of one.  The last post about a 55 lb thrust trolling motor and a battery is a great idea.    The pond boat can be transported in your truck.   That's the way I'd go.

Back when I was a mostly bank bound meat fisherman, I occasionally fished out of a canoe because I had no better option.   I never liked fishing out of a canoe. 

[buzzed bait]

i was just about to say the same as above.... a pond prowler sounds like the right option to me.

i've gone in my brother's with me, him, my nephew and some fishing gear.  yeah it was a tight fit, but never once felt like we were in jeopardy of flipping it.  those things are surprisingly good for fishing and very stable.  you could fit it right in the back of the truck...

we put my 30# minn kota and his 55lb minn kota on there and the thing will really move!  i think this would be a good option for you and if you look around, i often see these boats sell for decent prices on CL.

[thomas15]

We have a canoe that we have had for about 25 years (it's one of them Grumman Sliver Bullets). When our kids were little we took them both with us on the very tame south jersey rivers (Mullica or Batsto etc.) with no problems. While my skills handling a canoe were fairly good I personally never liked to fish from it and ours being aluminum it was loud. I always thought that if I were to use it for fishing I would make outriggers.

I agree with getting a small pond boat. I would get a small jon boat and an electric TM but when my kids were starting to fish they bank fished with me and in all honesty their attention span would have made putting out in a boat somewhat disappointing. Not all kids are the same though.

[Goose52]

Sure, a pond boat is a great option as well. However, we don't know why Dypsis zeroed-in on a canoe. He might have reasons for favoring the canoe option over the pond boat. For instance, the enjoyment of just paddling and taking a boat ride - great exercise. There's no single small watercraft solution that works for all people and compromises are nearly always necessary. Lots for Dypsis to think about.

I considered all watercraft options from a float tube up to a bass boat and ended up with the "pimped-out" canoe as my best option...

 

[Dypsis]

@Goose52 was right in thinking the canoe aspect in that (as my 4yr told me Sunday night while watching the game, that I should play football since my belly is big), in getting exercise.  Fishing and paddling/exercise is a win win.  

While I love the pond boat idea and maybe in a few years that will work.  As I really think that I am a few years away from on the water fishing with the oldest (4).  He does love to fish but the bank works for now.  I might look at the sit on top kayak and see what that has to offer.  

Great suggestions and input love this site!

[Fishing Rhino]

Pond prowlers are nice little boats.  They are definitely more stable than a canoe.  The seating is comfortable and easily adjustable.  The swivel seats are very nice, but you can also rig them on a canoe.

One of the downsides is that anything you keep on the sides of the boat can easily find their way overboard.  Rods, gear, etc., can be stowed inside, below the rails of a canoe making them nearly impossible to end up in the drink.

As for the fishing I enjoy fishing out of my canoe as much as I do with my bass boat.  There are places where the canoe has the advantage, and places where the bass boat has the advantage.

My canoe is the same as A-jay's, with a square stern for the trolling motor and a forty plus inch beam.  I can stand in it, but prefer to sit. 

It's not light, about ninety pounds.  I did wrestle it onto the top of my cap which had Yakima roof racks.  Not easy, but doable with the proper technique.  When I got my new truck, I did not want to put roof racks on it.  I opted for a bed extender that slides into the trailer hitch receiver. 

In most cases, where there is a decent ramp that is easy to get to, a trailer would be easier.  To load the canoe, I first empty it, then sit it in place.  After that, I put all the gear in the boat except for the battery which is placed in the truck bed.  When I get to the water, I unload the trolling motor and the bucket that has the anchor, marker  buoys, and fish finder.  The rest can stay in the boat while I launch it.

A trailer would eliminate all that unloading and reloading gear from the boat to launch or load.  Still it's not such an aggravation that it deters from my fishing.  Would you like it?  That's for you to judge.

When another person goes with me, it's much easier.  We each take a side and slide the boat out of the truck and into the water.  All the gear stays in the boat.  All that is left is to clamp the trolling motor to the stern, put the battery in the boat, hook up the battery clamps, and go.

Much easier with another to share the load.

 

[A-Jay]

I fish out of an Old Town Predator square back canoe (this model has been discontinued model). As Goose mentioned it's 15'6" long with a 40" beam - here a link to the stats http://www.oldtowncanoe.com/canoes/sporting/predator_ss150/

It's VERY Stable and I've been standing while fishing for 7 season, not a problem.  BUT - it's 113 pounds.  This weight & width contributes to it's stability but it's not really something one wants to be hoisting in & out of a truck.  Can be done but it's tough by yourself.  I use a small trailer which makes it very convenient. 

Additionally, my wife & I fish out of it all the time & it's quite suitable for two adults & "some" gear.  I run a 55 lb Minn Kota transom mounted trolling motor than moves the craft well.  I have a small Hummingbird 365i sonar/gps which is all powered by two 12v (mod 31) batteries. They last A-While. I use one to run around & fish with and the second to get me back to the launching point.

Below is a video of a decent smallie that hit right at the boat - I'm posting it as one way to actually see the stability of the canoe in action.  The fight was a little hectic. The canoe & the camera bounced around a little but clearly there was nothing close to a capsize.   Finally as for standing in a canoe - I will say that I have spent a good portion of my adult life "on the water" so The Sea Legs do come into play.

https://youtu.be/C-83rwD5EL8?t=12s

A-Jay

 

[Dypsis]

@Fishing Rhino I was hoping you would also chime in.  Can I ask the make/model of your canoe?  You said it weighs about 90lbs - what is the length?

[Fishing Rhino]

I believe it's the same as A-Jays, 15.5 feet.  My recollection was about 90 pounds empty, but could be more.  It's an Old Town/Johnson.  They could be bought for about five hundred dollars on sale, which is what I paid for mine.

If you go to the Old Town web site, they still make a canoe with the same hull.  They have three seats, web style across the hull, but no storage spaces and cup holders built in.  They are also a lot more money, over fifteen hundred dollars.  A-Jay was correct on the weight 113 pounds.

I'm thinking you can find them on sale and save a few hundred dollars if you search around for them. 

Here's a link that includes the canoe.

http://www.oldtowncanoe.com/canoes/discovery_series/

[Dypsis]

Jeez @A-Jay this post was like 7hrs old before you replied, getting sloppy...

Weight is certainly an issue I don't think I accounted for enough.  Although it does look pretty stable.  I'd still be weary with one of my boys.  Valid point about 'sea legs'.

SO MUCH TO THINK ABOUT.... 

[A-Jay]

1 minute ago, Dypsis said:

Jeez @A-Jay this post was like 7hrs old before you replied, getting sloppy...

Weight is certainly an issue I don't think I accounted for enough.  Although it does look pretty stable.  I'd still be weary with one of my boys.  Valid point about 'sea legs'.

SO MUCH TO THINK ABOUT.... 

Yea ~ Sorry about that - Today's Snow Removal operations took a while.

A-Jay

[BigZorch]

Hi All

Lifting a 90 pound monster onto my roof rack sound like a nightmare.  You should shoot for a 70 pound canoe in fiberglass or kevlar.  Your back will thank you.

Locally in NH we have http://www.rangercanoe.com/

 

Big

[Goose52]

2 hours ago, A-Jay said:

I fish out of an Old Town Predator square back canoe (this model has been discontinued model). As Goose mentioned it's 15'6" long with a 40" beam - here a link to the stats http://www.oldtowncanoe.com/canoes/sporting/predator_ss150/

It's VERY Stable and I've been standing while fishing for 7 season, not a problem.  BUT - it's 113 pounds.  This weight & width contributes to it's stability but it's not really something one wants to be hoisting in & out of a truck.  Can be done but it's tough by yourself.  I use a small trailer which makes it very convenient. 

Additionally, my wife & I fish out of it all the time & it's quite suitable for two adults & "some" gear.  I run a 55 lb Minn Kota transom mounted trolling motor than moves the craft well.  I have a small Hummingbird 365i sonar/gps which is all powered by two 12v (mod 31) batteries. They last A-While. I use one to run around & fish with and the second to get me back to the launching point.

Below is a video of a decent smallie that hit right at the boat - I'm posting it as one way to actually see the stability of the canoe in action.  The fight was a little hectic. The canoe & the camera bounced around a little but clearly there was nothing close to a capsize.   Finally as for standing in a canoe - I will say that I have spent a good portion of my adult life "on the water" so The Sea Legs do come into play.

https://youtu.be/C-83rwD5EL8?t=12s

A-Jay

 

Not to change the subject but NICE smallie A-Jay !! 

[Further North]

10 hours ago, WPCfishing said:

You may want to check Craigslist for a nice used canoe too. 

There's usually quite a few out there.  Lots get bought with good intentions and not used much...I bought my Mad River 14 a couple years ago from an older couple for $300...it looked like it'd never been in the water.

It doesn't look like that now...

[68camaro]

Dypsis, in many ways I am where you are. I am looking for a canoe or kayak to stand and fish in, be somewhat lighter weight, use my troll motor with and can carry two (mostly me alone though). It has been an in-depth search but I have narrowed the search to:

1, Canoe with outriggers. Many canoe choices but I believe out riggers will end tipping over discussion. I am looking at the Wenonah Tandem Fisherman canoe which is really wide and gives a lot of room, but pricy. I would use outriggers with this canoe also. A lot of less expensive canoe options. If you want to take both kids a larger canoe is probably only option.

2. KC12 Fishing Kayak. This is really a cross between a canoe and kayak but can carry two and is super stable with large deck to walk and fish standing up from. Negative is not best paddling craft but I don't plan on far water trips, plus trolling motor will negate this.

Kayaks that can hold two and you can fish from get way to heavy. The KC is 46 lbs.

Weight is a big issue but I discovered Rhino Side Loaders or rear T-Loader that will make loading on my SUV much much easier for one person. I was told by kayak retailer today that when you pick up a kayak/canoe with one end stationary on ground, rule of thumb is you are picking up 40% weight of craft.

When experimenting picking up craft today I noticed that the smoothness of the hull made it more difficult because nowhere really to grab from, even if weight manageable.

Good luck, lots of choices and difficult to pick one.  One final thought of mine is to pick up cheaper canoe with outriggers to use when with another (Wife, son or daughter) and get a solo kayak for me alone?

 

 

[Dypsis]

Wow, I really like the look of that KC12.  I too wouldn't be traveling too far its only a 250 acre lake.  Weight is great and looks stable enough to stand on. 

[68camaro]

the KC is really made to stand and fish, as matter of fact you can turn seat over and use it as raised platform to sight fish. It was made with fly fisherman in mind, Very clean deck to not get flies caught on. Youtube has nice videos explaining it.

[WPCfishing]

That KC12 looks good, a better version of a Nucanoe. I'd like to see the company offer a wide 15'er.