A-Mart cranking with 8:1:1 reel?

[Crankinstein]

There's a new video from TW showing Aaron Martens cranking some square bills and in the video he makes reference that he cranks with all high speed reels now even with gear ratios as high as 8:1:1. He's using a Shimano Metanium in the video and he comments that with the new powerful gears most reels have these days that it doesn't wear down the reel the way it used to. He mentions that he likes the ability to crank slower while making the bait move fast and when he feels a bite he cranks real quick for a second and recovers any slack line and assisting the hook set. I was curious what you guys thought of this and if anyone had tried this. I typically crank with mid range ratios of 6:2:1, 6:4:1, etc. and have never really been a fan of the slower 5:2:1 reels even for big baits but I've never really considered high speed ratios as an option. I tied a square bill crank on one of my 7:2:1 reels once but that's about that's about the extent of my experimentation and I didn't really get any conclusive results the time I tried it. If anyone has experience with this let me know how it worked for you, I found this video very intriguing as someone who uses crankbaits quite a bit.

[WRB]

My first 8:1 bass reel was Tatula back in 2012. After fishing with this reels few months I bought 2 more. At first these reels were used for jig & worm fishing to assist in reel setting and controlling big bass away from the boat, recovering line quickly is important to me.

What I learned is the newer low profile 100 size reels spools are small diameter and after you cast 30-40 yards the IPT reduces about 50%, the higher gear ratio's off set that lost line recovery.

The newer bearings and precision gears used in today's high speed reels prevent any binding when under a load and cranking with these is similar to cranking with yesterday's slower ratio round reels with larger spools, they work good for every bass fishing presentation I M O.

Tom

[buzzed bait]

i've seen another video where he said the exact same thing...  he has a good argument for it all too.  i laughed a bit when he says his "slow speed" reels are 7.4:1

[bigfruits]

I have to agree with AM about the new gears. At least when talking about xship which is the only new system ive tried. HG (7.x:1) is the new mid speed. 

Edit: Id like to hear reviews of deep cranks being fished with the 6.2:1 Metanium. 

[Darren.]

When AM speaks, people listen.

As a fan of high speed reels, I like what
he has to say. Makes a lot of sense. Tom's
comment, too.

[Raul]

The problem may not be the reel, the problem in retrieving lipped crankbaits with high speed reels is the bait, some baits simply can´t stand being pulled fast, the first thing they do when they reach certain speed is to lay on their side and not run properly.

[WIGuide]

I've been using faster reels now for roughly the past 10 years, and I use them for pretty much everything. Just because the retrieve rate is faster doesn't mean you have to move the bait faster. You can always slow your hand down. The only reels I have that are slower are still used because I haven't upgraded them yet. I think you should give it a shot and see what you think. 

[Crankinstein]

Some really good info in here I really like Tom's analysis, I never thought about the IPT being impacted by the smaller spools being drained by a long cast but it makes perfect sense when you think about it. I am definitely going to experiment more with cranking on high speed reels this year. I did just buy a conquest however but at least it was the HG model with the 6:2:1 ratio in the 200 size. I plan on fishing my magnum cranks with it like 10XDs and the giant Lucky Craft SKT magnum 110s and 105s. I'm going to try some square bills on my high speed reels again though and see how I like it. Looks like this might be the future for reels, faster is best!! I need to get me something in that 8:1:1 range now!

[long island basser]

My reels are atleast a 7.1:1 or higher gear ratio, I can't stand slow reels.

 

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

High ratio doesn't automatically equate to radically higher ipt so you have to take it all into consideration. It's personal preference but doesn't have much if any to do with new gears or wearing out a reel IMO. All x ship is a bearing supporting the top of an elongated ponion. Daiwas been doing it for years. Experiment and find what works for you. It's half the fun. 

[bigfruits]

2 minutes ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

 All x ship is a bearing supporting the top of an elongated ponion. Daiwas been doing it for years. 

is x ship the reason why my Metanium feels more powerful compared to a Curado (pre x-ship) of similar size and ratio or does it have to do with something else?

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

The new reel may feel a little smoother but extra power is just perception. Gear ratio, size, spool diameter, handle length can all affect the feel as well. 

[bigfruits]

Thats what confuses me. If i am not mistaken, the Curado 201E7 has about  the same ratio and has a bigger spool than the Metanium HG. The handle is a little shorter and it does not like a 3/4oz spinnerbait. Handles it fine, but you want a little more when reeling it in. I threw the same bait with the Met HG and it felt like I could do it all day although i switched up after about an hour. It was a very noticeable difference to me.

[Crankinstein]

22 minutes ago, bigfruits said:

Thats what confuses me. If i am not mistaken, the Curado 201E7 has about  the same ratio and has a bigger spool than the Metanium HG. The handle is a little shorter and it does not like a 3/4oz spinnerbait. Handles it fine, but you want a little more when reeling it in. I threw the same bait with the Met HG and it felt like I could do it all day although i switched up after about an hour. It was a very noticeable difference to me.

I wonder if it was the micro gearing maybe?

[Goose52]

I've got BC reels that give IPTs from 16" to 36".  All are tools in the tool box and I use the right tool for the right job. I have a natural cranking rhythm and pick an IPT that will give me the presentation I want at that rhythm. I will speed up or slow down somewhat if necessary but don't try to take a high IPT reel and "make it slow".  AND, no way I'm going to try to crank a 10XD and similar  big cranks with a reel with 36 IPT.

I have enough reels that I don't have to try to make them "one size fits all"...

 

[chadmack282]

When I use a deeper diving crank (say 12' +) with a 7:1 reel my cranks action is not correct.  Mainly bait laying over &/or swimming sideways.

Any one else have this problem? 

[Raul]

33 minutes ago, chadmack282 said:

When I use a deeper diving crank (say 12' +) with a 7:1 reel my cranks action is not correct.  Mainly bait laying over &/or swimming sideways.

Any one else have this problem? 

I mentioned it above, the problem is not the reel, the problem is the lure, lipped crankbaits can be very tricky even very short lipped like super shallow runners. 

 

[Megastink]

I marshaled for Keith Combs on the Chesapeake Bay, and he was throwing a squarebill on a 7.0:1. 

[DTack]

On 1/6/2016 at 9:03 AM, WRB said:

My first 8:1 bass reel was Tatula back in 2012. After fishing with this reels few months I bought 2 more. At first these reels were used for jig & worm fishing to assist in reel setting and controlling big bass away from the boat, recovering line quickly is important to me.

What I learned is the newer low profile 100 size reels spools are small diameter and after you cast 30-40 yards the IPT reduces about 50%, the higher gear ratio's off set that lost line recovery.

The newer bearings and precision gears used in today's high speed reels prevent any binding when under a load and cranking with these is similar to cranking with yesterday's slower ratio round reels with larger spools, they work good for every bass fishing presentation I M O.

Tom

It is nice to finally hear from someone who agrees that the newer reels are in fact just as powerful as an old 5:1 gear ratio.  I'm so tired of hearing... Have to have that 5:1 for more power... I just can't agree with that at all.  I've never had a problem torquing a fish out of heavier cover than most people who say that have ever put their bait into.  

WRB you make a lot of spot on posts... you're awesome!

[IAY]

On 1/6/2016 at 4:29 PM, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

The new reel may feel a little smoother but extra power is just perception. Gear ratio, size, spool diameter, handle length can all affect the feel as well. 

I don't see how you don't get more power, when you are comparing a double bearing supported pinion gear, to unsupported one. Wouldn't the bearings give extra support, and ease the rotation of the pinion gear, increasing the torque?

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

The supported gear ensures alignment which improves smoothness and longevity ( neither of which was a problem before) but has no impact on torque, power etc. the ponion on prior models was never "unsupported".   

[IAY]

27 minutes ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

The supported gear ensures alignment which improves smoothness and longevity ( neither of which was a problem before) but has no impact on torque, power etc. the ponion on prior models was never "unsupported".   

Yes it was always supported, but the better alignment, and the ease of rotation with the help of bearings will increase the amount of torque applied in the "vector" you want, increasing the torque from previous models, because less force is wasted in the rotation. 

[clh121787]

On 1/6/2016 at 0:52 PM, Raul said:

The problem may not be the reel, the problem in retrieving lipped crankbaits with high speed reels is the bait, some baits simply can´t stand being pulled fast, the first thing they do when they reach certain speed is to lay on their side and not run properly.

Crank slower... problem solved

[bootytrain]

On ‎1‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 3:22 PM, bigfruits said:

is x ship the reason why my Metanium feels more powerful compared to a Curado (pre x-ship) of similar size and ratio or does it have to do with something else?

The x-ship keeps the pinion and the main gear perfectly aligned which translates to more power transferred under load and definitely smoother, and dont forget the micro module gears on the Metanium. I don't buy the whole "daiwa has been doing it for years". They use 2 different spool shaft designs. Since Daiwas "free floating" spool has a short spool shaft that does not pass through the pinion, I think 2 bearings to support the pinion was a necessity rather than feature. It gives xship shimanos a different feel vs a short spool shaft Daiwa. My Aldebaran 50 is noticeably smoother and more powerful than my SS SV with high resistance lures and while fighting bigger fish. Since Shimano uses a long spool shaft that passes through the pinion, under a heavier load the shaft is more than likely supporting the pinion on the non bearing end but it would be slightly misaligned, but that's why they can get away with using only 1 bearing for years in their non x ship reels. Notice how Daiwa does not use double bearing pinions on their long spool shaft designs like the Tatula and Lexa, etc.. 

[Master Bait'r]

I've always said I don't understand why people can't just turn the handle slower if you want it to run slower...  Having the ability to pick up slack very quickly is huge for me though, especially from a kayak when you are planted and can't use posture, movement or stance to your advantage.