Which hand gun for home defense?

[Josh Smith]

20 hours ago, Way2slow said:

They will not shoot through a person upper torso but they will literally explode it. 

No, it won't.  There's no charge in the XTP bullet.

Then I keep a clip of 180gr Golden Sabers with it loaded at 1,350fps ready if I need to do a quick change to take out a vehicle or something.

You're not going to take out a vehicle with a 10mm (or any) handgun.  You may damage the radiator, but that's not an immediate incapacitation.  .50 BMG rifles are anti-materiel; handguns are not.

Well, I say bull crap, that's fine for the FBI who spend ton of time shooting up the government ammo,

Law enforcement qualifies once a year to quarterly, and don't generally spend lots of time on the range.  Most law enforcement types are not gun types.

I want one to be able to knock some hyped up drug attic backwards several feet as he's going down.

That's not how it works.  Physics...

But I do agree with not shooting through doors!

Regards,

Josh

[A-Jay]

The excerpt below is from an article titled Tactical Analysis written by Lieutenant Colonel (Ret.) Mike Wood an NRA Law Enforcement Division-certified Firearms Instructor and the author of Newhall Shooting: A Tactical Analysis, (entire article link below) The article references the FBI's recent decision to switch from .40mm handgun back to 9mm.

****** While this info is clearly gear toward Carry and not Home Defense, I believe the same premise regarding mindset, tactics, and training applies here.

"The truth is, with modern ammunition, any of the calibers currently in use by law enforcement will do the job — yet none of them will turn a handgun into the Hammer of Thor.

There will be a lot of ink — and hot air — expended in the coming weeks and months as this latest chapter of the ‘Great Caliber Debate’ unfolds, and while it may be entertaining to watch, we need to keep our priorities in focus.

Issues of caliber and weapon selection pale in comparison to mindset, tactics, and training. We need to dedicate our extremely limited resources (time, money) to the things that matter the most, and equipment selection is at the very bottom of that list.

As long as it’s reliable, it doesn’t matter what’s in your holster. What matters is what’s in your mind and your heart. Professionals focus on mindset, tactics, and training. 

Professionals let the amateurs bicker about minute differences in equipment.

Don’t get distracted by all the noise: stay focused on the right things, and stay safe out there."

A-Jay

https://www.policeone.com/Officer-Safety/articles/7453193-How-the-FBI-reignited-the-pistol-caliber-war/

 

 

[F14A-B]

Home defense you say..

.500 S&W vs .50 BMG 

Even if you miss, the fireball turns them into a burnt marshmallow..

[Nitrofreak]

HHOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLYYYY COW...

[F14A-B]

.500 S&W magnum fireballs are impressive to be sure..

[Nitrofreak]

My wife would probably be more upset that I melted her candles rather than stopping an intruder with that thing, might even be a good demolition tool, looks like the procession could take out a wall or two... dagummit man !!

Oops, *percussion, sorry about that.

[Nitrofreak]

I have a question while we are on this subject and I hope you don't mind me posing it in your thread buckeye, I am debating on either a laser or a tactical light, I should probably tell you the gun first, it's a Sig Sauer 45 cal P250 model, I am leaning toward the tactical light since it is not only for CC but home defense as well, either one or the other or would not worrying about it at all be better, any thoughts, suggestions?

[C0lt]

I wouldn't worry about the laser, its always seemed a little gimmicky to me. As far as the flashlight goes, its a must in my opinion for home defense. as far as a flashlight for a carry firearm, you might have a tough time concealing something with the added bulk of the light (though not impossible). a light would be more practical for carry if you were utilizing an out of waistband holster, however every state has different laws, and social stigma will probably come from wearing a handgun on your hip as a civilian. Ill let you decide. 

 

As far as the lazer goes, if youre firing at a target close enough to see the lazer, you should be able to shoot without it just from knowing how you handgun points (im talking 8 yards or less). It should be almost natural. If it isn't you should be shooting more. 

[Nitrofreak]

When you are reading up on everything about CC you run across suggestions about everything, most of what I have heard and learned about in the CC arguments and suggestions is that I found all the cases to be close quarter confrontations, however, there are some areas within my house that could reach as much as 30 feet between myself and an intruder, that was basically the reasoning for the question, as for the tactical light, it has an easily removable clip so that I can carry it much easier without having to purchase a bulkier holster, it would be used primarily for home defense for sure, I have made a decision on the gun but have not purchased it yet, I firmly believe as you do that it should include practice and lots of it, not only that but I also feel that it is worth every penny you spend to train as much as you can with instructors, not all of them have the same outlook and in some cases may not even suit your needs but at the same time there is most always something that you learn that you take away with you, even though I don't have the gun yet, I have already been through lots of training with guns very similar to what I want and cant wait to start with my own.

Thanks for the input, it is very knowledgeable and I shall put it to good use. 

[C0lt]

I didn't have a clear understanding of your question, I thought you were asking about concealed carry with a flashlight. 

as far as the 30 ft zones that you could encounter while protecting your home, I live in a state that doesn't have a castle doctrine, meaning that I can only use deadly force in my home if I have retreated as far as I can, and had literally no other option. because of my state laws, im not really allowed to think that way. If you do live in a state with a castle doctrine of a stand your ground law, then yes you could be faced with a situation where you may need to shoot 30ft. 

as far as the laser goes, by all means if it would make you feel more comfortable. there are some really good laser/light combos on the market. my only question is whether or not ill be able to see a small red dot on a target 30ft out. 

btw you really hit the nail on the head as far as instructor training goes. A lot of people think that a ccl class and a few weekends at the range is enough, and in my (and your) opinion it really isn't enough. Instructor training is great, and dynamic handgun courses are even better. Not only are they extremely informative and emphasize a wonderful amount of safety, they're also just really fun!

You definitely have the right state of mind for this, and I wish you the best. 

[Tony johnson]

I have a Springfield xd for home defense... shooting handloads 180 he hollow points at 1300 fps... sitting next to the pistol is my streamlight led flashlight that will blind anyone especially in a dark room... that is if you get past the 125lb rotty

[Russ E]

46 minutes ago, Tony johnson said:

I have a Springfield xd for home defense... shooting handloads 180 he hollow points at 1300 fps... sitting next to the pistol is my streamlight led flashlight that will blind anyone especially in a dark room... that is if you get past the 125lb rotty

living in California, I would think hard on using handloads. You do not live in a gun friendly state.

Most gun experts advise against using handloads for self defense.

If you ever had to use the gun in a self defense situation, it would be one more tool for an anti gun lawyer to use against you.

 

[slonezp]

Agree. I've had more handloads stove pipe than factory loads. 

[Tony johnson]

13 hours ago, Russ E said:

living in California, I would think hard on using handloads. You do not live in a gun friendly state.

Most gun experts advise against using handloads for self defense.

If you ever had to use the gun in a self defense situation, it would be one more tool for an anti gun lawyer to use against you.

 

I have been advised by a gun lawyer and 5 close family Leo's that the one thing you don't wanna do in California is wound a intruder... you are gonna get more problems especially civil court if you don't kill the person then if you do kill

[Way2slow]

Model 870 Remington riot gun (magazine tube is as long as the barrel, and hold eight rounds, with the shortest barrel legal in your home, and short stock.  DO NOT USE BUCKSHOT for home defense, #6 or #4 are the max.  You are wanting to take down the unwanted guest, not everyone in the house.  Buckshot can travel through every wall in the house.  At close range, #6 or #4 are going to make mince meat out of anyone they come in contact with but a lot more easily stopped by walls so there is much less chance of seriously injuring someone in an adjacent room.

Pistols seem cool but unless you are putting hundreds of rounds through one practicing, they are almost useless to the average individual in a panic situation.  Most people put more bullets in the floors and ceilings than in an intruder.

 

Plus, there is nothing in the world that's going to get someone's attention like the sound of a slide action shotgun.

[A-Jay]

I am fan of the 870.  

Solid reliable choice IMO.

Have two - one upstairs & one down stairs.

Both loaded, one in the chamber, safety on. 

My wife & I live alone, are both very familiar with this weapon, have been trained in it's use, used it as part of our jobs and shoot ours often.

However, when it comes to an actual shooting scenario in my home, The Last thing I will ever do is get the intruders attention in advance of using deadly force.  

#muzzleflash

A-Jay

[NHBull]

1 hour ago, Way2slow said:

Model 870 Remington riot gun (magazine tube is as long as the barrel, and hold eight rounds, with the shortest barrel legal in your home, and short stock.  DO NOT USE BUCKSHOT for home defense, #6 or #4 are the max.  You are wanting to take down the unwanted guest, not everyone in the house.  Buckshot can travel through every wall in the house.  At close range, #6 or #4 are going to make mince meat out of anyone they come in contact with but a lot more easily stopped by walls so there is much less chance of seriously injuring someone in an adjacent room.

Pistols seem cool but unless you are putting hundreds of rounds through one practicing, they are almost useless to the average individual in a panic situation.  Most people put more bullets in the floors and ceilings than in an intruder.

 

Plus, there is nothing in the world that's going to get someone's attention like the sound of a slide action shotgun.

Now that it's just the Mrs and and me and nothing friendly for 1/2 mile, a buckshot is the first round with the sole purpose of shooting thru a wall.  I then have #4.......Mrs Bull has #6 with a lighter load has takes a more defensive position in the event I am not home.

[Russ E]

2 hours ago, Way2slow said:

Model 870 Remington riot gun (magazine tube is as long as the barrel, and hold eight rounds, with the shortest barrel legal in your home, and short stock.  DO NOT USE BUCKSHOT for home defense, #6 or #4 are the max.  You are wanting to take down the unwanted guest, not everyone in the house.  Buckshot can travel through every wall in the house.  At close range, #6 or #4 are going to make mince meat out of anyone they come in contact with but lot more easily stopped by walls so there is much less chance of seriously injuring someone in an adjacent room.

Pistols seem cool but unless you are putting hundreds of rounds through one practicing, they are almost useless to the average individual in a panic situation.  Most people put more bullets in the floors and ceilings than in an intruder.

 

Plus, there is nothing in the world that's going to get someone's attention like the sound of a slide action shotgun.

I agree bird shot is probably the most effective at close quarters and the safest for anyone else in the house.

[Way2slow]

A little gee wiz about pistols.  Back in the old cowboy gunfight is the streets days.  The average distance they were apart was about 15 feet, and it was not uncommon for them to empty their guns and neither person gets hit.

Laser sights help but if you are walking down the hall to check out a noise, look around and you are face to face with someone that's not supposed to be there, do you really think you are going to take the time to make sure that little red/green dot is pointed where it needs to be.  Most likely, you are going to just start pumping lead as fast as you can and hope one finds it's mark.  Since the pistol is only held with one hand, and the barrel is only a few inches from that hand, you could have it at a 45 degree angle an not even realize it.

Shot gun being a two handed weapon, the forward hand is an automatic sight, it's going to shoot what ever direction that hands is from the one on the trigger.  You might not have time to raise the gun, but you can still make a girl out of a boy real quick.

[MickD]

On 12/29/2015 at 5:59 PM, desmobob said:

I own a bunch of handguns, but my home defense gun is a short-barreled 12 ga. pump...

 

A friend's open carry instructor told him the same thing.  He said every thug knows the sound of racking a shell in, and all but the most crazy will flee rather than fight.  If they do fight, one shot is all it will take.  Only problem will be the restoration costs-pretty messy.

[Rook]

On 9/18/2019 at 8:24 PM, Russ E said:

living in California, I would think hard on using handloads. You do not live in a gun friendly state.

Most gun experts advise against using handloads for self defense.

If you ever had to use the gun in a self defense situation, it would be one more tool for an anti gun lawyer to use against you.

 

That old wives tale has been going on for as long as the Internet has been going. Show one court case where someone has been convicted due to using reloads. You can't because it's never happened.

 

 

[Russ E]

To each their own. Nobody is telling you not to carry reloads. I was merely making a suggestion.

My comment had nothing to do with the internet. Law enforcement friends advised me against carrying handloads,years ago.

The main reason I don't carry handloads is reliability.  As @slonezp mentioned when I have had a misfeed, it was usually with reloaded ammo. either my own or purchased reloads.

here is an article about the possibility of legal ramifications from handloads. Make your own decision.

https://gundigest.com/handguns/concealed-carry/handloads-not-a-good-idea-for-concealed-carry

 

If I wanted to argue the use of reloads, I would do it on a shooting forum.

[Way2slow]

I use reloads but mainly because of the load I shoot.  The first three rounds in my Glock-20 are 155 grain Hornady XTP being pushed at and ungodly speed so they will make a mess out of a human body, but not go all the way through it.  Behind those are 180 grain Golden Sabers being pushed at 1350 fps. Now, the loads I use for carry are not exactly reloads.  I only use brand new brass for my carry loads.  One the brass has been fired once, it get's fired, it's relegated to target practice.  Glocks are hard enough on brass that does not create a problem anyway.

 

The thing you have to worry about more than the person you might be trying to defend against, is the people you might injure in the process.  You have a legal defense against an attacker, you have no defense against an injured second party.  Before you send a bullet, you had better be dang sure of where it's going, and I'm talking about it's full flight path. 

Last year, I had dog attack me and actually bit me.  As he was coming at me, I pulled my pistol and thought if he came a couple more feet he was going to be dead.  I was in the streets of our residential neighborhood and figuring I was about to shoot, I made a quick visual scan,  Knowing there was no way a 50 pound dog was going to stop that bullet. Had I shot, and it Ricki shade off the ground, it was right in line with the front of a house.  It ended up, just as he chomped down on my thigh, I'm managed to make one wicked blow across the top of his head with it.

 

[Rook]

On 10/29/2019 at 8:02 PM, Russ E said:

If I wanted to argue the use of reloads, I would do it on a shooting forum.

Well why are you arguing about it then? There's no arguing. Just show one case where this has ever happened instead of what your cop friends have told you. You can't because it's BS!