225 Kill Switch Question

[Ski213]

This has been bothering me for a period of time. I have an late 90s 225 Johnson. The ignition and kill switch are one unit. If the engine is running and I pull the lanyard it dies. Makes sense since its a kill switch and all. However, if I pull the lanyard and try to start it, it does, and then it runs. That I don't understand. Everything kill switch wise I've dealt with in the past, not outboards, works by grounding out a circuit or opening up a circuit. Either way, it kills the engine and if the lanyard isn't in place the engine won't start or run.

I'm told that this is proper operation for this system. Is that correct? If so, how does this system work?

[WIGuide]

Is this on a side mount control box? If so, is the kill switch a "U" shaped yoke that slides over the ignition switch that holds it pressed in almost like as if you were trying to choke it? I used to have one like that on a Johnson 88spl and other kill switches located on the control box might be the same. When you would choke mine, the kill switch would sometimes slowly work it's way off yet the motor would stay running. If you gave it a yank it'd kill it just like it was supposed to. I'm thinking it still works on a grounding circuit like you thought, but it depends on a spring to complete that circuit. When it's loaded and released quickly it briefly completes the circuit killing the motor, but in it's natural state it doesn't hold the connection. I'm not sure if that's how it works or not, but that's the best I could figure out after owning one for a while. 

[Snakehead Whisperer]

I have no experience with Johnsons from that era, but I have experience with the older Evinrudes. I am pretty sure that this is not how the kill switch is supposed to function. 

 

This would've been helpful to me earlier this spring. I got up and started walking around the boat with the kill switch lanyard still connected to me, and the stupid key snapped in 2. I was about 3 miles from the ramp and had to drive the boat back with my thumb holding the kill switch button down. It was not easy. I need to get some spare kill switch keys to keep in the tool box, but I haven't found them for sale separately, and the lanyards with 10 different keys on them are ridiculously expensive.

[Wayne P.]

Some of the older kill switches only turned the key when the cord is pulled. There was no electrical function involved, just mechanical. That may be the type you have.

[Ski213]

Is this on a side mount control box? If so, is the kill switch a "U" shaped yoke that slides over the ignition switch that holds it pressed in almost like as if you were trying to choke it? I used to have one like that on a Johnson 88spl and other kill switches located on the control box might be the same. When you would choke mine, the kill switch would sometimes slowly work it's way off yet the motor would stay running. If you gave it a yank it'd kill it just like it was supposed to. I'm thinking it still works on a grounding circuit like you thought, but it depends on a spring to complete that circuit. When it's loaded and released quickly it briefly completes the circuit killing the motor, but in it's natural state it doesn't hold the connection. I'm not sure if that's how it works or not, but that's the best I could figure out after owning one for a while.

Yep that's the one. Mine does exactly what you describe.

I have no experience with Johnsons from that era, but I have experience with the older Evinrudes. I am pretty sure that this is not how the kill switch is supposed to function. 

 

This would've been helpful to me earlier this spring. I got up and started walking around the boat with the kill switch lanyard still connected to me, and the stupid key snapped in 2. I was about 3 miles from the ramp and had to drive the boat back with my thumb holding the kill switch button down. It was not easy. I need to get some spare kill switch keys to keep in the tool box, but I haven't found them for sale separately, and the lanyards with 10 different keys on them are ridiculously expensive.

When I bought a new ignition switch I think I came across the lanyards separate fairly cheap. If I can remember where I'll shoot you a link to them.

I dug out the old ignition switch a minute ago. I think I figured it out. Seems like the way it works is that it physically turns the key to the off position. As far as I can tell with a meter there's no electrical effect when you pull the lanyard other than the one caused by the key being snapped into the off position. I think that's its designed, surprisingly. I guess it works. Also explains why you can start without the lanyard.

Thanks for your help. Sorry I didn't take the time to dig a little deeper before I bothered everybody.

[Ski213]

Some of the older kill switches only turned the key when the cord is pulled. There was no electrical function involved, just mechanical. That may be the type you have.

Seems to be that way. Sorry, way typing my last post and didn't see this one until I posted it. Good to have some confirmation on what I'm seeing. Thanks!

[Snakehead Whisperer]

Glad you figured it out. 

[Way2slow]

The kill switch, if separate from the key, and ignition switch ground out the power pack to turn the engine off.  With their CDI ignition, the battery is only to spin the starter, it's not needed to start the motor.  Get it running, and you can throw the battery away.  That's why when people are having running issues with an OMC (other than ficht, I laugh to myself when people suggest a bad battery could be the cause.

[Ski213]

The kill switch, if separate from the key, and ignition switch ground out the power pack to turn the engine off.  With their CDI ignition, the battery is only to spin the starter, it's not needed to start the motor.  Get it running, and you can throw the battery away.  That's why when people are having running issues with an OMC (other than ficht, I laugh to myself when people suggest a bad battery could be the cause.

Mine is part of the ignition switch. I'm not sure that I care for it but maybe that's just cause I'm used to a seperate one. I suppose it would be easy enough to add a remote one.

I miss having a truck that I can take the battery off of once its started. Came in handy when I was 16 and 17. Could have a shot battery, no money, and still make the weekend rounds so long as someone where you were going had a good battery. I also miss having something I can roll start.

[Snakehead Whisperer]

Mine is part of the ignition switch. I'm not sure that I care for it but maybe that's just cause I'm used to a seperate one. I suppose it would be easy enough to add a remote one.

I miss having a truck that I can take the battery off of once its started. Came in handy when I was 16 and 17. Could have a shot battery, no money, and still make the weekend rounds so long as someone where you were going had a good battery. I also miss having something I can roll start.

You have different controls than I do on my OMC.

 

I have a 2002 Mazda Tribute (Ford Escape) with a 5 speed standard trans. It'll do both of those things and gets close to 30mpg (except when towing a boat.) I was a hard core GM guy before getting an Escape as a rental one day, then I bought one. It still seems like a new car to me, but then again it's the only vehicle I've ever owned that's made in this millennium.  I am quite fond of it these days. 

 

Maybe it's time for you to move up to a "classic" tow vehicle. Might have to sacrifice some of the comfort/amenities/fuel economy you're used to, however. My '69 C-10 will tow my father-in-laws 29' cabin cruiser with ease, and looks pretty good doing it. Downside is that it gets about 6mpg doing the deed. 

 

A few years ago I drove in a caravan with a friend in a '64 beetle with a dead generator. We swapped batteries several times on the drive home when his spark would start to get weak. I lost track of how many times we swapped and ended up with a tiny wet cell battery in my truck. It started the engine, thankfully. I promptly drove to his house to get my Optima back, and ended up spending 3 hours helping him swap out the gen (need to drop the engine in a type 1 VW, unless you're a glutton for punishment.) Good times. Ah, memories. 

[Ski213]

You have different controls than I do on my OMC.

 

I have a 2002 Mazda Tribute (Ford Escape) with a 5 speed standard trans. It'll do both of those things and gets close to 30mpg (not when towing a boat.) I was a hard core GM guy before getting an Escape as a rental one day. It seems like a new car to me, but then again it's the only vehicle I've ever owned that's made in this millennium.  I am quite fond of it these days. 

 

Maybe it's time for you to move up to a "classic" tow vehicle. Might have to sacrifice some of the comfort/amenities/fuel economy you're used to, however. My '69 C-10 will tow my father-in-laws 29' cabin cruiser with ease, and looks pretty good doing it. Downside is that it gets about 6mpg doing the deed.

My tow vehicle isn't anything real special. 02 chevy 2500HD. Not a loaded truck but honestly about as new a vehicle as I want to own. I can still work on it myself for the most part. It has a couple bells and whistles but most of them don't ring or whistle like they used to. Also not real efficient. Best its seen is 15mpg. That was in Bama. Around home its 12 with a good tailwind. I've never checked it towing the boat. I don't even want to know. I love it though.

I've heard many good things about the escape as far as towing. I bet that C10 is a sweet ride. Saw an older chevy with a giant cruiser behind it the other day on the interstate. I love seeing older trucks still getting the job done. I see some of this new stuff at the lake and I'm like what the he** do these people do for a living?

[Way2slow]

Reminds me of those people that think you can disconnect a battery cable to see if their alternator is working.  If it wasn't bad, good chance it is after pulling that trick.  Very good way to blow the regulator in one.

 

As for gas mileage, 12.8 is the best I've seen out of my 2001, 6.0, 4WD 2500HD with 4:10 gears.   10 towing my boat.  I just got back from a few days on Clarks Hill.  Getting there and a couple trips to the ramp from the farm house (my parents old house) was 152.8 miles,  15.8gallons to fill it up for the trip back home.

[Snakehead Whisperer]

Reminds me of those people that think you can disconnect a battery cable to see if their alternator is working.  If it wasn't bad, good change it is after pulling that trick.  Very good way to blow the regulator in one.

 

As for gas mileage, 12.8 is the best I've seen out of my 2001, 6.0, 4WD 2500HD with 4:10 gears.   10 towing my boat.  I just got back from a few days on Clarks Hill.  Getting there and a couple trips to the ramp from my parents was 156.8 miles,  15.2 gallons to fill it up for the trip back home.

Fortunately the voltage regulators on my truck and the VW are external from the generators, and we both carry spares. I don't miss the high prices for filling up in the full size, but with the gas prices now I'm tempted to drive the V8 a lot more. 

 

My tow vehicle isn't anything real special. 02 chevy 2500HD. Not a loaded truck but honestly about as new a vehicle as I want to own. I can still work on it myself for the most part. It has a couple bells and whistles but most of them don't ring or whistle like they used to. Also not real efficient. Best its seen is 15mpg. That was in Bama. Around home its 12 with a good tailwind. I've never checked it towing the boat. I don't even want to know. I love it though.

I've heard many good things about the escape as far as towing. I bet that C10 is a sweet ride. Saw an older chevy with a giant cruiser behind it the other day on the interstate. I love seeing older trucks still getting the job done. I see some of this new stuff at the lake and I'm like what the he** do these people do for a living?

I hear you about not wanting to know the mpg. The C-10 is all business, not a trailer queen. I love that truck, but use it sparingly when needed or for fun only. 

 

The Escape has served me well. I always assume that people with the newest stuff are either filthy rich, extremely wise with financial planning or up to their ears in bills. I own all of my boats and vehicles outright, and I'll keep them around until they're no longer useful to me. Wouldn't have it any other way. With that said I do experience boat and truck *** at times, but thankfully I can control my impulses with that and live within my means. 

[Ski213]

I can't say much. I've not done the alternator thing specifically but I've learned the hard way on several things. I'll not forget when I learned why you don't upsize a fuse if you don't know why it blew to begin with. Learning that way can be expensive but on the plus side you don't ever forget the lesson.

My truck is the same setup. I love the 4:10s everywhere but the interstate. It's been a solid truck though. It's spent it's whole life towing something. Transmission just gave up earlier this year at 180k. I figure I'll drive it till the wheels fall off and then put them back on and drive it some more. I love not having a truck payment.

[Way2slow]

If it's 4WD, keep and eye on the transfer case. They are notorious for the pump kicking some buffer shims out and the ears on the pump beating a small hole at the top near the rear. It makes a small leak you usually don't notice but over time, you start running it without oil in it and pretty much destroys all moving parts. If it's black from old oil from the top down at the rear housing, if you cleaned it up, you would probably find a small hole. I pulled mine and installed an upgrade to prevent that. It's basically another transfer case if it burns it up from no oil, another $1,000.

[Ski213]

I've heard that about the case deal. I try to keep an eye on it. Thought about doing the upgrade. How bad a job is it to drop it?

[Way2slow]

I didn't think it was that hard.  I have a transmission jack I used to hold it (just the transfer case, didn't pull trans), taking it out and putting it back in, if not for that, it might take two people so it doesn't fall off the jack and bust the case.  The awkward shape makes it hard to handle.  I did a couple hundred dollars in parts while I had it apart, new chain, some new bushings and a few other parts.  Basically a good refreshing.  I could have easily done it in one day if I had the parts, but waited until I had it tore down to see exactly what I wanted to replace and then ordered them, so it was about a week.

[Ski213]

Ok. Thanks. I'll probably do some other stuff as well while its out. Hate to have it down that far and not at least replace the more heavily worn stuff.