Minimum Guide Ring Nesessary

[WPCfishing]

Here's a list of guide inserts/rings available.

 

What is the minimum guide insert/ring you would require on your rods? Add line choices for each material in your answer/opinion.

Describe the benefits and faults of each insert/ring as you know it.

 

Vickers hardness ratings: 

Stainless Steel (SS): 400 [b.E.] 
Chrome: 800-1000 [C.M.] 
Carbaloy: 1000 [b.E.] 
Aluminum Oxide: 1200-1400 [b.E., C.M.] 
Alconite (Fuji): 1300-1500 [Fuji] 
NanoLite (Titan): 1800 [J.M.] 
Zirconia: 1000-1400 [M.G.] 
Zirconia PVD: 1600 [b.E.] 
SiC: 2200-2400 [b.E., C.M.] 

[MickD]

I will use anything above carbaloy.  Even they will probably work for guides, but I always use a premium ring on the tiptop.  I've never had a cheapo guide ring groove, but have tiptops.

 

My ring preference is to go with what I want either for weight (like titanium frames) or appearance of the ring and frame (l really dislike the old flat, gray rings.  So ugly.  Also any ring that's fat.  So where I always end up is with a decent quality ring because cheap rings are not put into titanium frames, and I avoid ugly gray rings and poorly made/poor metallurgy frames.

[S Hovanec]

Alconite is the cheapest guide I will use or recommend. My personal rods all get Ti/SiC or Torzite....

Just cause like the Ti color! I know there are Ti/Alconite, I just haven't used them. Not that big of a price difference between them and SiC.

[WPCfishing]

In the mid range the aluminum oxide and alconite

are very close. I would think the real difference would

be the size, weight or both?

[Jrob78]

Alconites is where it's at for me.  They are cheap and I've never had any trouble with any Fuji Alconite guides.  I will use Ti Sic on "special" rods but 90% get alconite.

[WPCfishing]

Alconites is where it's at for me.  They are cheap and I've never had any trouble with any Fuji Alconite guides.  I will use Ti Sic on "special" rods but 90% get alconite.

I'm going with sic guides on my toad rod build.

Off the shelf rods I like get a pass. Any rod around $100.00

these days will have decent guides that will easily handle

braid.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

In practical application, any of them will work. I use Minima4 double swaged SS ring guides on some builds with no problems at all. My go-to are Fuji Alconites. They're hands down the best value for weight, harness, durability and variety. Torzite are nice because you can down size more due to the thin ring and still pass connections. They're overkill, but so is a lot, if not a majority of what we do tacklewise. 

[.ghoti.]

Another vote for Alconites. 95% of the performance for 30% of the cost vs SIC.

 

If I really want to shave down the weight, I'll go with Recoils.

 

Having said that, my OCD kind of insists that I go with SIC for tiptops.

[MickD]

It's not OCD on SIC tiptops, it's common sense.  If anything is going to groove, it's the tiptop.  Been there done that with cheap tiptops.  SIC on tiptops makes sense.

[Big Bait Fishing]

i really like American Tackle guides , that said , i use their Duralite and Nanolite heavy duty micro guides . the Duralite guides are high grade Aluminum Oxide , the Nanolite are a Zirconium blend .

[MickD]

If you want an eye-opener, compare the strength of the frames of the Amtak NIA with the Y Fujis in titanium.  No comparison, Fujis much less prone to bending and breaking.

[Batson]

WPCfishing,

In a nutshell, the ceramic options above aluminum oxide are just premium options.  Standard aluminum oxide should handle any and all lines out there, including braids.  If you start splitting hairs regarding coeficient of friction etc, or just plain like the color of zirc or SiC, then the premium options may be for you.  I've never seen a standard aluminum oxide guide or tip top groove.  If someone has, please post a picture of it along with the conditions under which it occured. 

My personal opinion on SiC is that you sacrifice durability (impact resistance) for the hardness you gain.  The best value in a high performance ceramic is zirconia in my opinion.  It's much less expensive than SiC, and offers increased hardness and a nice gloss black color. 

 

-Geoff

BatsonEnterprises.com

[sarcazmo]

I build a lot with Fuji alconite because everyone knows them.

Last few personal builds I've used the Alps zirconia guides and been very happy with them as well.  Don't think you can go wrong with either.

[WPCfishing]

WPCfishing,

In a nutshell, the ceramic options above aluminum oxide are just premium options. Standard aluminum oxide should handle any and all lines out there, including braids. If you start splitting hairs regarding coeficient of friction etc, or just plain like the color of zirc or SiC, then the premium options may be for you. I've never seen a standard aluminum oxide guide or tip top groove. If someone has, please post a picture of it along with the conditions under which it occured.

My personal opinion on SiC is that you sacrifice durability (impact resistance) for the hardness you gain. The best value in a high performance ceramic is zirconia in my opinion. It's much less expensive than SiC, and offers increased hardness and a nice gloss black color.

-Geoff

BatsonEnterprises.com

Hi Geoff, Thanks for that information. I'll discuss this

further with Ralph. If my memory serves me right Ralph suggested the zirconia too. I absolutely want light weight and strong guide frames. Titanium would be nice. Which of your guides do you recommend?

The two blanks arrived, an RX7 and an Immortal. I'm go to his shop to get a look at them tomorrow.

[WPCfishing]

In practical application, any of them will work. I use Minima4 double swaged SS ring guides on some builds with no problems at all. My go-to are Fuji Alconites. They're hands down the best value for weight, harness, durability and variety. Torzite are nice because you can down size more due to the thin ring and still pass connections. They're overkill, but so is a lot, if not a majority of what we do tacklewise.

Mike, For the few extra dollars I'd opt for the better guide.

When I'm fishing it's non stop for hours. I get out at least three times a week. I need a pro rod, especially for fishing heavy cover.

I'm seriously considering doing tournaments again in 2016 so no room for less... I'll more than likely have Ralph build me 4-6 rods.

[Hi Salenity]

Pac Bay Minima guides work great!

[S Hovanec]

They may work great, but I have a real hard time putting $4 worth of guides on a $170 blank! Kinda like putting hubcaps on a Ferari.

I don't even like using Alconite on SCIV or SCV. If you're going high end, go high end.

[.ghoti.]

They may work great, but I have a real hard time putting $4 worth of guides on a $170 blank! Kinda like putting hubcaps on a Ferari.

I don't even like using Alconite on SCIV or SCV. If you're going high end, go high end.

 

Dang it anyway. I thought I was lookin fly wit dem hubcaps!! LOL

 

I can relate to Scott's approach. Go high end, indeed.

 

But, sometimes a compromise is in order. I just ran a spreadsheet on my last build; Torzite vs Alconite. A Torzite guide set would have been $88 more for that stick. It could be argued that the extra $88 would be better spent on the blank than on the guides. I can see myself making that argument.

[Hi Salenity]

I agree but they are light and the incerts don't fall out, what else can you ask for?

I'm not saying they are the best ever but they work for me.

My least favorite are Recoil on a spinning rod with braid.

[S Hovanec]

But, sometimes a compromise is in order. I just ran a spreadsheet on my last build; Torzite vs Alconite. A Torzite guide set would have been $88 more for that stick. It could be argued that the extra $88 would be better spent on the blank than on the guides. I can see myself making that argument.

Ti/Alconite may be that comprise. I want to do a rod with them, but haven't yet. I believe Alconite is lighter that SiC.

[.ghoti.]

Ti/Alconite may be that comprise. I want to do a rod with them, but haven't yet. I believe Alconite is lighter that SiC.

 

I've looked at those; the TKTAG series, and wondered if they would be worth the price delta. A size 4 in that series is $4.99. A size 4 TLSG (titanium frame SIC) is $5.89. For the extra 90 cents, I'm thinking go with the SIC.

 

Anybody know what the actual weights are for these. I have a chart printed listing weights for all of the Recoil guides. I've never seen one for Fuji. Do they release that data? Or do I need to buy a few and weight them myself. Yeah, I know, I'm probably splitting hairs here. But they're my hairs, so I'll split "em if i want to, LOL.

[S Hovanec]

I weigh some when they come in sometimes. When you get into the 4mm guides, there isn't a real difference between SS and Ti frames. You need to weigh on lots if 10 to get them to register on the scale.

[Big Bait Fishing]

If you want an eye-opener, compare the strength of the frames of the Amtak NIA with the Y Fujis in titanium.  No comparison, Fujis much less prone to bending and breaking.

for guide neck strength , i don't think the AmTack heavy duty micro guides can be matched ! i always worry about Fuji's folding up like a pair of pants !

[S Hovanec]

for guide neck strength , i don't think the AmTack heavy duty micro guides can be matched ! i always worry about Fuji's folding up like a pair of pants !

The LAG and TLSG do bend easy. The KLAG and TKLSG are a different story. The KB guides are even more Stout.

[uncustered]

Fuji alconite.... Love the black and they're lite and they have never failed me.