Spiral Wrap Question

[BDfishing]

I know I'm new & getting a head of myself but I like them, I have 6 Bud Erhardt Fishing Sticks & like them. Anyone have any go links or videos on how to build them, how to, guide spacing etc.

Thanks

[BDfishing]

How do u set the spine? Like a spinning rod

[.ghoti.]

Current thinking is that the spine is irrelevant. Build on the straightest axis instead. All blanks have a bit of curve. I set mine so it curves up when with a casting reel at top dead center. Then let the weight of the guides, wraps and finish help to pull it a bit straighter.

[FD.]

http://www.bassresource.com/bass-fishing-forums/topic/148923-2015-rod-builds/

 

I built a spiral wrapped rod in this thread.  It might help.

[MickD]

The spiral rods I've built have been the "simple spiral," and they work fine.  All you do is set up all the guides as you would for a regular casting rod, all on top, do the stress test and test casts for spacing.  THEN reposition all but the rear guide at 180 degrees.  Don't move any other guides for rotation or axial position.  Now add the lowest (OK to bend a guide) double foot guide of the same size as guide #2 at 90 degrees half way between #1 and #2.  Your new guide's function is simply to keep the line off the blank, so the lower you can get it the better.  

 

There are other layouts, but most builders believe the simple spiral works as well as any of the others, and it does not have the problem of loading the line to one side of the spool of the reel as some designs with the first guide not at 0 degrees rotation sometimes do.

 

The second (90 degree) guide can go either to the right or left, but I prefer it to go on the right side so that when my rod is resting on the boat casting platform that guide is up instead of down (with the reel handles up).  If you have left handed reels you may want to go the other way to keep that 2nd guide off the casting platform.

 

Many believe spirals cast farther than conventional; I think the only advantages are in eliminating any torque induced from the guides on top of a bent rod (felt as twisting torque in the hand)  and eliminating any tendency of a highly bent rod to twist.    However, since we are using such small guides these days, I don't even feel any torque on conventional builds.  I build conventional simply because I don't feel the torque and I don't like the looks of a spiral wrap.

 

If you haven't experienced a spiral wrap, I suggest you try it.  You may find they have compelling advantages, as many people do.

[MickD]

http://rodbuilding.org/read.php?2,241080,241080#msg-241080

 

Check this string of posts out.  A lot of background/info.

[adam lancia]

Other advantages I have read about simple spirals is that you can often get away with 1 guide less, and since the guides are on the bottom of the rod you don't have to be concerned about the line passing under the blank with a deep bend in the rod (as with a conventional guides2 on top layout). I'm purposely holding on to a couple of 2 piece rods to try a lazy mans simple spiral out, just have to rotate the tip section and slap a bumper guide on.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

You can even skip the bumper. On a bass rod there's no worry is a long friction generating run by the fish. Some builders just put a coat of epoxy the protect the finish.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

OP: I do both Revolver and simple spirals depending on the build. Lighter rods where casting is optimum I use the revolver. This setup uses the most natural line flow. On heavier rods for jigs and flipping I go with a simple.

[S Hovanec]

My last 4 or 5 rods, I have eliminated the bumper guide and gone straight from 0° to 180°. NO ill effects were seen.

[.ghoti.]

My last 4 or 5 rods, I have eliminated the bumper guide and gone straight from 0° to 180°. NO ill effects were seen.

I'veoften wonderd how that would work out over the long haul. Did you apply any finish to the area between, where the line comes in cantact with the blank? Might be a place for Permagloss. I'm gonna have to try that.

[S Hovanec]

I'veoften wonderd how that would work out over the long haul. Did you apply any finish to the area between, where the line comes in cantact with the blank? Might be a place for Permagloss. I'm gonna have to try that.

I did not. I feel epoxy is too soft and Permagloss would melt the paint right off a St. Croix. I'm sure over time, dirty line will scratch the paint.

[Big Bait Fishing]

My last 4 or 5 rods, I have eliminated the bumper guide and gone straight from 0° to 180°. NO ill effects were seen.

sounds sketchy ! i would think with the line rubbing on the blank and such a radical change in line direction that you you would drastically slow the line down it's path and lose casting distance and cosmetically damage the rod blank . i would never think one would even try that ..

[S Hovanec]

It's a lot less radical change than the simple spiral. Under load, it's even less dramatic.

[Big Bait Fishing]

It's a lot less radical change than the simple spiral. Under load, it's even less dramatic.

going from stripper guide at 0 degrees atop the blank to 180  degrees at the bottom of the blank is not radical ??? what about the line wrapping the blank for that 180 degrees ???  

[S Hovanec]

It's much more of a direct route than going to a bumper guide that stands off the blank at 90°. Not saying its for everyone, but it works.

Take one of your bumper spiral rods and skip the bumper sometime. You'll see its not as crazy as you're making it out to be. Take a blank that has a diameter of 0.5" at the point of where a bumper would be located. By not using a bumper, the line deviates 0.25" around a round surface at a shallow angle. Add the bumper. Now it has to travel through a guide that's at a greater distance from the centerline of the blank, creating an angle point in the line path. If I get a chance, I'll snap a couple pics illustrating the line path.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

The line goes fr 0 to 180 either way. What Scott's saying is that the area of line contact is insignificant and even more insignificant under load. The transition guide bears no load at all its just a buffer. This is just one of the multiple ways to skin this cat.

[Big Bait Fishing]

It's much more of a direct route than going to a bumper guide that stands off the blank at 90°. Not saying its for everyone, but it works.

Take one of your bumper spiral rods and skip the bumper sometime. You'll see its not as crazy as you're making it out to be. Take a blank that has a diameter of 0.5" at the point of where a bumper would be located. By not using a bumper, the line deviates 0.25" around a round surface at a shallow angle. Add the bumper. Now it has to travel through a guide that's at a greater distance from the centerline of the blank, creating an angle point in the line path. If I get a chance, I'll snap a couple pics illustrating the line path.

i would appreciate pictures !!! for how i'm picturing it and to my way of how it would work , makes me think you lost your mind !!    :eyebrows:    

[Big Bait Fishing]

The line goes fr 0 to 180 either way. What Scott's saying is that the area of line contact is insignificant and even more insignificant under load. The transition guide bears no load at all its just a buffer. This is just one of the multiple ways to skin this cat.

Mike you lost me in this !! i'm waiting for pictures , videos , something !!!

[S Hovanec]

It'll be a few days for pics. I have some rods to put finish on that need delivered this weekend.

[.ghoti.]

Just did a little experiment on a chunk of scrap blank. One thin coat of FlexCoat lite, that I let cure for three days. Put a coat of Permagloss over the epoxy. Looks like it has set up hard, with no effect on the epoxy. My next build is a jerkbait rod. I'll be leaving off the bumoer guide, and substituting the two layer finish application. Won't take long; I have the grip built, the reel seat trimmed, and static testing done. It will take some time to see how well this works over the long haul. Be next year some time before I can make that call. Gonna need to fish it for a while to see.

 

I'll tell you what, pgersumky; I received a lot of great advice from Mr Hovanec lately. All of which has been spot on.

 

I also have another plan to try. Bought the materials to do it, and plan to remove the bumper from my new bait finesse stick, and try it out. No details at this time. I want to see if I can make it work before I report on the method. Don't want to look stupid if it doesn't work. ( I know; too late )

[S Hovanec]

The beauty of it is, if you don't like it, you can add the bumper later.

[.ghoti.]

The beauty of it is, if you don't like it, you can add the bumper later.

 

That's the beauty of building your own. I can experiment, and none of my failures ever need to see the light of day.

[Big Bait Fishing]

don't get me wrong , i'm not disagreeing with his methology , i just need to ''see'' it !! cause i doubt it , doesn't make it wrong ....

[.ghoti.]

don't get me wrong , i'm not disagreeing with his methology , i just need to ''see'' it !! cause i doubt it , doesn't make it wrong ....

 

Ah, sorry. Didn't mean to call your judgement into question. It's hard to convey tone in a post, and easy to read something in it that was not intended.

 

I'm like you; I need to see it sometimes before I can buy into it. That's why I'm gonna try it.