Let's Talk Line

[dam0007]

sup guys, few things I couldn't find searching and a few things I could find searching but want up to date feedback, so...

Do any of the CoPoly FC coated lines sink? I keep hearing so many good things about PLine, and a few others, Yozuri which I didn't like at all. I want to try one out. I swear by Sufix Siege for Top water but pretty much every technique I do I'm most comfortable with FC so I want something that doesn't float. If said line doesn't exist that eliminates question 2.

2nd out of the FC coated lines that sink, if any, which seems to have the least stretch and most stretch. I would like a moderate amount of stretch for shallow cranks and minimal stretch for jig/worm presentations.

Co poly out the way, now leads me to FC in general.

Anyone of you who know me know I was die hard Seaguar then switched to Sunline. Well finally met a situation where the line failed and lost a tourney because of it lol before I say what happened and get trolled I will say this wouldn't have happened with 12# InvizX because a similar thing happened in the same exact spot on the same lay down dozens of times.... Caught a dink, re tied no signs of fray, then pitched the jig at a piece of wood I fish every time on same body of water. Bass grabbed it on the fall and swam in and under a second lay down beneath a branch. Estimating it a 4.5lber. I immediately set the hook and he pulled to the left against it as I turned his head the line instantly snapped I checked my line and about 4 ft of it was peeled and frayed to hell. You could troll me now and say user error lol now in my defense this same piece with 8# on a shakey head I've pulled a 5 from this spot and dozens of 2s and 3s with 12# Invizx. They're always in the same position on this wood in they're ambush quarters. This said snapped line was 12#Sniper. To my knowledge sniper is to Invizx what shooter is to Abrazx. Huge let down! We needed 2lbs to tie with 2nd and 3.1xx to place 1st so this guy would have been the kicker. ><

Also same line last week was not holding up well for C Rigging. I caught fish and didn't have any break offs but I was constantly re tying.

So Sniper guys what's the deal? Is this where I should be using 15-17# to be equivalent to InvizX? As I've said I've pulled fish from this cover and have had frayed line before but snapping like this and how easily it frays isn't what I've come to expect from so many users feedback.

As far as FC what's everyone's go to for Abrasion resistance?

Should I be using Sniper exclusive for more open water and outside weed lines and go shooter for cover and structure?

Any responses appreciated! Thanks

[EvanT123]

Suffix is some good stuff.

[AdamsEye]

From what I recall P line c21 sinks. I got some to try and can remember it sinking, and not liking it on my topwater rod.

[Big Bait Fishing]

best bet is to go up a size with the Sniper , 16 or 20 lb. for laydowns should do you well , 12lb. is a little light for fishing structure .

[bigbill]

I use Excaliber Silver Thread Copolymer line.

Years ago they posted a lab test and it beat the other lines for bending cycles and abrasion testing.

Here we are decades+ later I'm still with it.

[Jon G]

12lb line is not going to hold up flipping lay downs. You may get lucky sometimes but with larger fish you will get beat 85% of the time and you found out the hard way. 16lb Sniper is the real deal. I absolutely love the stuff and I use it for almost all my FC needs. If I'm flipping heavier cover I will bump up to 20lb. I actually have a hard time sometimes breaking off 16lb Sniper...

[dam0007]

12lb line is not going to hold up flipping lay downs. You may get lucky sometimes but with larger fish you will get beat 85% of the time and you found out the hard way. 16lb Sniper is the real deal. I absolutely love the stuff and I use it for almost all my FC needs. If I'm flipping heavier cover I will bump up to 20lb. I actually have a hard time sometimes breaking off 16lb Sniper...

So just up the test? I figured as much. I hear so many great things about sniper mind you since the switch I've caught hundreds of fish. They've been so finicky I've been keeping the line to minimum diameter this year. I'll give the 16 a whirl. Or do you think I should grab a spool of shooter, I have yet to try it out... I typically don't fish lay downs all the time, this particular spot tho I see guys make 2 pitches beating the bank and move on. I'll dissect this one for a half hour if need be and it always produces. This instance it's what I had tied at the moment normally if I know I'll be on a lot of timber I'll do braid and 20# leader.

[dam0007]

Suffix is some good stuff.

Siege is the real deal! The only line I fish that I have zero complaints about. Now if Sufix could make their FC up to par with Siege for abrasion, we could only dream.

[dam0007]

From what I recall P line c21 sinks. I got some to try and can remember it sinking, and not liking it on my topwater rod.

I'm not sure I'll get this right but CX is the basic and CXX is the heavy duty stuff??? Do you know if those sink?

[dam0007]

Thanks all

[AdamsEye]

I'm not sure I'll get this right but CX is the basic and CXX is the heavy duty stuff??? Do you know if those sink?

No sir I do not, I have only tried the cx. I would assume so, but not certain.

[Kevin22]

Im not aware of a copoly that floats. To the best of my knowledge they all sink.. At least all the ones i have used sank.

For the line, im very happy with seaguar red label 15 for flipping. Broke off a big smallie on a jig last week though so i am upping that rod to 17. In the lines defense, its been on that reel for over a year.

I could not tell a difference between invizx and red label.

[BobP]

I don't get it.  Your line frayed and failed once out of several times in the same spot but that doesn't say much of anything about the line, nor about how you fished it.  Seems like it was just luck of the draw to me.  This time around, the line rubbed against a particularly sharp part of the cover and failed.  If you like the line, why not just move up in line size for more protection?  Companies are doing all sorts of mods to fluoro lines these days to satisfy customers who want better handling, less or more stretch, more abrasion resistance, etc, etc.  But the classic reason for choosing fluoro was that it has better abrasion resistance, less stretch, lower visibility, and faster sinking than many copolymer lines.  Hard surface lines have more abrasion resistance, be it copoly or fluoro.  And they will almost always have worse handling, better knot strength, less stretch, but will develop spool memory faster than a softer, better handling, version of the same brand line.  So you just have to choose according to the qualities that are most important for the application.  

[NathanW]

Every time I have ever fished any type of coated or blended (Co-Fluoride) FC line the same thing has happened. Especially with P-line. It peels badly, separates, frays, breaks, just plain sucks. If you are on a budget but still want FC I would try Red Label. Stick with the 100% FC in my opinion. In noticed a few mentions of Siege and wanted to give that line a shout out as it is great line! On another note I was a die hard Sunline guy, basically it was Sniper, Shooter or NOTHING!! Switched to Seaguar and haven't looked back. I use Abrazx and Red Label exclusively for all FC purposes. I have had some failure but not the way I did with Sunline especially Sniper. At a fraction of the cost I cant see ever switching back to Sunline. With Suniline you will have days where you spend more on line than you do on fuel.

[Raul]

12 lb test line is not good for flipping, period.

[dam0007]

Every time I have ever fished any type of coated or blended (Co-Fluoride) FC line the same thing has happened. Especially with P-line. It peels badly, separates, frays, breaks, just plain sucks. If you are on a budget but still want FC I would try Red Label. Stick with the 100% FC in my opinion. In noticed a few mentions of Siege and wanted to give that line a shout out as it is great line! On another note I was a die hard Sunline guy, basically it was Sniper, Shooter or NOTHING!! Switched to Seaguar and haven't looked back. I use Abrazx and Red Label exclusively for all FC purposes. I have had some failure but not the way I did with Sunline especially Sniper. At a fraction of the cost I cant see ever switching back to Sunline. With Suniline you will have days where you spend more on line than you do on fuel.

Exactly. I was a InvizX/AbrazX guy prior but their customer support really aggravated me so I gave up on them. Sunline gets reviews like its the best thing since sliced bread, I don't see it. Also I didn't like their Super Natural Mono either. It seemed no matter how much spit I'd get on a Palomar while cinching it would still fray or pigtail itself.... Side note red label was actually my go to jerkbait line. 10# it had the right amount of stretch for my taste and casts great with light baits.

[fishindad]

I think line is probably the most important and most irritating variable in fishing. You are on the right track though by posting your thoughts and questions. IMO, there's no one rod, reel, or line company that makes the perfect product for each and every situation. The thing about rod and reels though is those are more subjective, meaning an XX dropshot rod may feel the best to you but the Dobyns DX feels the best in my hands. Just because a reel has 10 BB doesn't mean it's going to feel smoother than one with 7 BB.

 

Line can be more objectively evaluated; diameter, stretch, hardness/abrasion resistance, knot strength, etc. But where the variability comes in is we as end users. The knots we choose and tie, the lb. test we use for the situation, the UV exposure, the cover we fish, etc. My opinion is one can have the "right" rod and reel but if the wrong line is chosen the end result is not good. Compared with using a 'suboptimal' rod or reel but the right line, which will result in success more often than the previous scenario. 

 

All that said, the pros are tied to one sponsor so the have to use i.e. Sunline for all purposes. We don't. So one suggestion is to use Siege, Sniper, P-line, whatever - for the given situation. Mono for topwater, braid for punching, FC for dropshot, etc. Most have budgetary concerns as well or we'd spool up with Tatsu in every lb test, lol. Or just make things easy and remove as many variables as possible and keep using Sunline (or Seaguar) for everything but as others mention, size up in lb. test for the situation and adjust lure weight accordingly. That is what I would do.

[Jon G]

So just up the test? I figured as much. I hear so many great things about sniper mind you since the switch I've caught hundreds of fish. They've been so finicky I've been keeping the line to minimum diameter this year. I'll give the 16 a whirl. Or do you think I should grab a spool of shooter, I have yet to try it out... I typically don't fish lay downs all the time, this particular spot tho I see guys make 2 pitches beating the bank and move on. I'll dissect this one for a half hour if need be and it always produces. This instance it's what I had tied at the moment normally if I know I'll be on a lot of timber I'll do braid and 20# leader.

Shooter is a lot more wirery and stiff than Sniper. It has a lot less stretch though and it took me a few hours to get use to. Personally, I love Sniper and I find myself buying it more than Shooter.

 

You said you've caught hundreds of fish with 12lb Sniper but had issues with it on that lay down which shows it is not strong enough to hold up to flipping lay downs. 

 

Seriously try 16lb its great it has a very thing diameter and is very strong. Like I said any rod of mine that has Fluoro on it most likely has 16lb Sniper.

[Cgrinder]

CXX does not sink. It floats or is neutrally buoyant; haven't experimented to see which. It's also stretchy but the abrasion resistance is excellent. Hybrid is neutrally buoyant (which you probably know). I'm sorry you didn't like it. I'm usually not a fan myself but the 6 lb is actually pretty legit. Still doesn't sink though. Hi Seas Grand Slam copoly seems to sink but it didn't wow me in any aspect.

 

Sniper is thin for lb test, so I'd agree with 16 lb (maybe higher) or a move to Shooter. I like Shooter but it requires line conditioner and a good, stern talking-to every outing.

[Kevin22]

CXX does not sink. It floats or is neutrally buoyant; haven't experimented to see which. It's also stretchy but the abrasion resistance is excellent. Hybrid is neutrally buoyant (which you probably know). I'm sorry you didn't like it. I'm usually not a fan myself but the 6 lb is actually pretty legit. Still doesn't sink though. Hi Seas Grand Slam copoly seems to sink but it didn't wow me in any aspect.

Sniper is thin for lb test, so I'd agree with 16 lb (maybe higher) or a move to Shooter. I like Shooter but it requires line conditioner and a good, stern talking-to every outing.

My 2, 4, & 6 yozuri hybrid sinks. I know because i fish a lot of float rigs for crappie and in a couple minutes the slack is well under the surface.

[Turkey sandwich]

Not to keep bringing Hybrid up, but I really like it's abrasion resistance. As for flouro and mono, I use them almost always as leaders only and for anything high abrasion (rocks, especially in rivers, trees, etc), I use 12lb Hybrid. I like it because it's heavier than it's lb test rating (12lb hybrid is closer to 15-17lb test) and have never had an issue with knot strength. For less snaggy/rocky applications, I really like InvisX, but I'm not going to be throwing it around sharp rocks/trees, and especially not both rocks/trees in current. For finesse, I've recently picked up Sniper in 7lb test and don't really have an opinion on it yet.

Really though, even if Hybrid isn't your go to, the stuff is great as a leader tied to braid and It's become my go-to for abrasion resistance. What issues were you having with it that lead you to not like it?

[dam0007]

Maybe I'm spoiled but when I fished Hybrid I tried 10# and threw keitechs on football heads. A bait I typically can feel what's going on down there. The hybrid wasn't transmitting anything to me. And I didn't like the clear it had some neon blue tint to it. I either fish clear no tint or with Siege the smoke green is cool. I do however use red braid. Lol

Well for my tourneys this weekend I had enough on my filler spools to spool with left over Abrazx 15 and InvizX 12. Figure 2 weeks I'll be ready to respool it'll buy me some time to see what more of u guys suggest and maybe place a order or 2. Mainly my jigs 12-15#, Crig 15# and trig12# reels are what I'm worried about all my moving baits have 10# FC or Siege on em. My flipping sticks are braid.

[papajoe222]

A bit off topic, but I'm wondering why you're limiting yourself to lines that sink. There are only a few applications where a sinking line makes a noticeable difference. Topwater (negative) and weightless soft plastics (positive) are two that come to mind.

Also, why copolymer? Fluoro is great for applications where sensitivity is a concern, but braid is more so and there are abrasion resistant monos that equal, or better many copolymers.

Personally, I don't get caught up in all the merchandising claims of copolymers. Something is always sacrificed when combining or coating one material with another. I go with whatever line is best for the application and that includes fluorocarbon (yuck) for deep cranking.

[Turkey sandwich]

Maybe I'm spoiled but when I fished Hybrid I tried 10# and threw keitechs on football heads. A bait I typically can feel what's going on down there. The hybrid wasn't transmitting anything to me. And I didn't like the clear it had some neon blue tint to it. I either fish clear no tint or with Siege the smoke green is cool. I do however use red braid. Lol

Well for my tourneys this weekend I had enough on my filler spools to spool with left over Abrazx 15 and InvizX 12. Figure 2 weeks I'll be ready to respool it'll buy me some time to see what more of u guys suggest and maybe place a order or 2. Mainly my jigs 12-15#, Crig 15# and trig12# reels are what I'm worried about all my moving baits have 10# FC or Siege on em. My flipping sticks are braid.

I have a weird time with most colored flourocarbons/hybrid/copolymer/etc, too. I think they tend to look stupid/pointless a lot of the time (and since I now just use them for leaders..). I do, however, also like colored braid on spinning rods for watching line movement if I have to fish really finesse. I fish Hybrid in the smoke color only as a long (5-8') leader on 30-40lb 832 braid. I still tend to get a really good feel for the bottom or vibration of my lures. Now, I haven't fished AbrasX or Shooter, and maybe I'd prefer them for the rough stuff, but Hybrid has never given me issues with knot strength, abrasion, or shock strength the way that other flouro or flouro/copolymer lines have, and it's one spot where I've gotten a lot of bang for the buck.

[Cgrinder]

My 2, 4, & 6 yozuri hybrid sinks. I know because i fish a lot of float rigs for crappie and in a couple minutes the slack is well under the surface.

 

Weird. Mine does not do that.