Mono Vs Copoly Sensitivity

[Catt]

Here's a little test I try sometimes (probably totally unscientific).

Cast your favorite bottom bumping bait (jig. T-rig, whatever it is) out to the depths. Don't count it down, don't watch the line. Can you feel the bait hitting the bottom? Through your rod? What if you hold the line between your thumb and index finger?

Yes! Yes I can!

I can feel a 1/4 oz weight hit bottom in 20' of water with mono!

It's one of the things night fishing teaches you!

[deep]

Well, I don't like to night fish. So I need crutches like premium fluoro and holding/ feeling the line.

[RoLo]

The difficulty I have is, "less stretch = more sensitivity"

Mono, fluoro, or copoly does not stretch until adequate force in opposite directions is applied or adequate force in one direction while the other end is affixed to an stationary object.

A bass simply picking up a t-rig off the bottom is not enough force to cause line stretch.

 

I can see both sides of the line-stretch debate, and both are logical (I hate when that happens).

Tom makes an excellent point.  Before you can stretch any line, you first have to remove all line-slack.

And as soon as any line is taut (stretchy or stretch-free) it's going to transmit vibration directly to the rod.

That is unquestionably true, but I also believe that less line-stretch does translate to greater sensitivity, I'll try to explain:

In the "stretch matters" camp; it's not about 'on' or 'off', but a matter of degree. That is to say, a taut line

made of any material is going to transmit vibration, but line elasticity will deduct from the magnitude of that signal.

For a fence-case, where the strike signal is borderline perceptible, a highly elastic line may absorb just enough

of that signal to make it imperceptible. In the same vein, we add weight on windy days to reduce the line-belly

and recover some sensitivity. During the hook-set, we kind of swap roles with the fish, and now the fish

gets a chance to feel the angler...LOL.  Few would argue that it's easier to drive the hook home beyond the barb

with a non-stretch line compared to a highly elastic line. In my view, no matter which end of the line you tug,

the line with less stretch is going to deliver more power at the opposite end. During the hook-set

we call that 'hook-set power', and while we're sensing the lure on a limbo line we call that 'line sensitivity'.

Now then, if you're one of the gifted anglers with "Soft Hands", all the above goes out the window.

Sorry John, couldn't resist 

 

Roger

[BobP]

Catt, you're obviously a fan of copolymer or mono line and that's fine for any fishing presentation as long as it works for you.  This thread is splitting scientific hairs.  Considering all of the factors that determine overall bite sensitivity - the rod, the reel, the line, the bait, how you hold your rod and at what angle, how much touch sensitivity you have in your hand at the moment a fish bites, even your mental focus - well, differences in line composition are minor enough not to get excited one way or the other.  But the logic is this:  If you accept that more dense fluoro line has less stretch than nylon monofilament line and that it is also more able to transmit vibration (a measure of sensitivity), you can reason that line which has less stretch is probably also more sensitive.  A = B = C, so therefore A = C.  This might be a false equivalence, but probably not.  It really does not apply to situations where a fish picks up your bait and starts to swim away with it, or pull on your line.  I applies to situations where a fish picks up your bait and sits there, mouthing it to determine whether it's food or not.  To me, that's where a very sensitive line can help me know to set the hook.  

[Bruce424]

Hold the line above the finger. That is the best sensitivity you could have. Watch how hank parker fishes. Those lines are the same with sensitivity.

[zachb34]

I'm a braid user 99% of the time. When I have used fluorocarbon lines it felt that the more dense qualities made a difference in sensitivity compared to less dense mono. Each strike will move line to some degree, and that heavier line that gets moved tends to give you that "heavier" tick. As an analogy it's like dropping a 1/8 oz weight on a scale versus a 1/4 weight. On impact the 1/4 oz weight will make the scale read a higher weight briefly than the lighter weight. The more dense lines seem to put more "impact" on the rods when the line is moved. The lower stretch lines usually feel more sensitive probably because they can transmit vibration better. Even if they aren't being stretched. I have zero scientific evidence for any of this information it's just a theory of mine.

[Catt]

What I don't like is misinformation!

Sorry BobP but it's been scientifically proven dozens of times that fluoro stretches as much as and in some brands more than mono.

Monofilament, fluorocarbon, copolymer all stretch but but stretching has nothing to do with feeling a bite since it does not occur until after hook set.

Feeling the bite has to do with vibration being transmitted up the line, down the rod, through the hands and interrupted by the brain.

Feeling a bite requires keeping a certain amount of tension on your line so you can feel the bite while at the same time keeping a certain amount of slackness in your line so the bass doesn't feel you.

[BrianinMD]

I agree with Catt that stretch does not affect sensitivity, no where near the pressure in a bite to cause any stretch. However, the difference in sensitivity will be based on density. The higher density lines will carry the vibrations better, for example braid is not dense at all and has next to no slack line sensitivity.

[Catt]

But BraininMD I thought less stretch = more sensitivity?

Look at a guitar string, more slack less vibration, less slack more vibration. It doesn't matter if it's cat gut string or steel string!

[J Francho]

Tension and stretch and vibration! Oh my!

[deep]

Feeling a bite requires keeping a certain amount of tension on your line so you can feel the bite while at the same time keeping a certain amount of slackness in your line so the bass doesn't feel you.

 

 

How would a novice go about achieving these two seemingly contradictory things at the same time?

[J Francho]

Through time on the water and catching fish. At a certain point, the novice must get off the internet, and cast a line.

[Mike L]

Through time on the water and catching fish. At a certain point, the novice must get off the internet, and cast a line.

Allways wanted to say that but didn't want to offend anyone.

Mike

[J Francho]

For many beginners, most of this stuff is acedemic. For bored old hands, it's interestimg while we're stuck at work, lol.

[Raul]

THE ONLY WAY TO LEARN is ----->  LEAVE "COMPUTER" KNOWLEDGE HOME AND GO OUT THERE AND WET THE LINE !!!!

[RoLo]

How would a novice go about achieving these two seemingly contradictory things at the same time?

 

Yes they are contradictory, and realistically you can't do both perfectly, but perfection isn’t necessary.

Take a Senko for example, the most coveted lure in America. To get maximum action from a Senko

you need a completely slack line, what we call a ‘freefall’. However, when the lure is completely severed

from the angler, the angler is completely severed from the lure (we can't have it one way in a bilateral event).

Fortunately though, neither perfection or completeness is necessary.

 

As Catt described, the angler’s job is to maintain line tension that’s midway between ‘taut’ and ‘slack’; a line in limbo.

Gary Yamamoto calls this a ‘semi-slack line’, but I think of it as a ‘semi-taut line’.

Most anglers would be surprised how little line-slack is needed to produce a big belly in the line.  

The ratio is about 10 to 1, where nodding the tiptop guide 1-inch will produce about 1 foot of line sag.

This means that a bass only has to move the lure 1-inch to send a message on a semi-taut line. 

Unfortunately, when a bass moves the lure in the direction of the tiptop guide, the strike may go unnoticed.

Although we know how many strikes we Do feel, there is no way to know how many strikes we Don’t feel.

 

Roger

[Raul]

Yes they're contradictory, and realistically you can't do both perfectly, but perfection isn’t necessary.

Take a Senko for example, the most coveted lure in America. To get maximum action from a Senko

you need a completely slack line, what we call a ‘freefall’. However, when the lure is completely severed

from the angler, the angler is completely severed from the lure (you cannot have it one way, it must be bilateral).

Fortunately though, neither perfection or completeness is necessary.

 

As Catt described, the angler’s job is to maintain line tension that’s midway between ‘taut’ and ‘slack’; a line in limbo.

Gary Yamamoto calls this a ‘semi-slack line’, but I think of it as a ‘semi-taut line’.

Most anglers would be surprised how little line-slack is needed to produce a big belly in the line.  

The ratio is about 10 to 1, where nodding the tiptop guide 1-inch will produce about 1 foot of line sag.

This means that a strike only has to move the lure 1-inch to send a message on a semi-taut line. 

Unfortunately, when a bass moves the lure in the direction of the tiptop guide, the strike may go unnoticed.

Although we know how many strikes we Do feel, there is no way to know how many strikes we Don’t feel.

 

Roger

And what you don't feel is as important as what you feel.

[zachb34]

Just a curiosity question but, being a braid user, I don't feel many if any bites on the fall unless it's a weightless bait for water that's 5'+. I do however watch my line on the fall and sometimes detect a bite. How often do you guys detect a strike on slack line from being a line watcher?

[RoLo]

And what you don't feel is as important as what you feel.

 

What I don't see or feel is even more important,

because it's a missed opportunity.

 

Roger

[FryDog62]

I'll chime in on the OP's original question...

Contrary to popular belief (a.k.a Marketing), Fluorocarbon in general has more stretch than either mono or copolymer lines. However it is denser and density is what affects sensitivity more than anything. Stretch doesn't become a factor until the hook set.

So, since Yo-Zuri has fluorocarbon blended into it, logically it is more sensitive than Big Game.

Plus once you do set the hook, according to stretch tests I have conducted, Yo-Zuri has less stretch than either fluorocarbon or Big Game. So I'm predicting an overall more favorable experience with YH than BG.

And no, I don't work for any line or fishing manufacturer..

[Catt]

How would a novice go about achieving these two seemingly contradictory things at the same time?

Experience

[kingmotorboat]

I used to be worried about sensitivity in my line and all that when I was a newbie a year ago. Now in one year I've learned that sensitivity is almost subjective. We could fish a with the same line and I could feel more bites. You just have to know how to control your slack. Also palm the reel and slide your finger under the line I do this for t rigs and jigs

[kingmotorboat]

And as catt said experience is key

[Raul]

Just a curiosity question but, being a braid user, I don't feel many if any bites on the fall unless it's a weightless bait for water that's 5'+. I do however watch my line on the fall and sometimes detect a bite. How often do you guys detect a strike on slack line from being a line watcher?

 

Reason why I say: what you DON´T FEEL is as important as much as what you feel, you detect the bite on a slack line because you cease to feel the bait dragging the line as it sinks and you don´t even have to see the line, is the sensation that the bait has "disappeared" from the end of your line that indicates the bait was inhaled by the fish and is no longer sinking.

[Mike L]

There is NO line or rod for that matter, that you can just throw and KNOW without a doubt that there is a fish on the other end.

No matter how much we wish there was, it just doesnt work that way.

Sure we keep looking and comparing everything sold wishing for that magic bullet, but it just doesn't exist.

So the next best thing is to try different things that will in our minds give us an edge. And what is the best way to do that?

Buy what you can afford, ask for advise on the best way to use it, and remember why its called fishin.

Mike