Wanna check my math??

[FatBoy]

WARNING!!!!  THIS POST IS NOT FOR THE MATHEMATOPHOBIC OR THOSE PRONE TO MIGRAINES.

Finally somebody's talking my language.  Turns out you can solve this with geometry, at least for specific points in the retrieve.  What you have to do is reel in enough line to make up for the jigs fall rate.  Because the line is at an angle (not vertical), the VERTICAL COMPONENT of the line movement has to equal the fall rate of the jig (but in the opposite direction of course).  

Let's assume the jig sinks at 1 ft/sec.  When you have out 45 ft of line, a 7 ft rod pointed straight up and the jig is at 15 ft deep, the jig is 39 ft from the boat (using the Pythagorean theorem).  The angle between the line and the horizontal plane is 29 deg [sin(29deg) = 22/45 where 22 is the 15 ft depth + 7 ft rod and 45 is the length of line (i.e., the hypotenuse)].  So with a 1 ft/sec fall rate, you need to reel in about 2 ft/sec (1 ft/sec / sin(29deg) = 2.06 ft/sec ).  When the jig gets to 20 ft from the boat, you have 30 ft of line out and the line makes a 48 deg angle with the horizontal.  At that point, you need to reel in at 1.3 ft/sec.  

To summarize, as the jig gets closer to the boat, you need to reel slower to maintain a constant depth.  With 45 ft of line out, you start at 2 ft/sec and end at 1 ft/sec.  

The take home message is that you should experiment in the pool until you get the hang of it.  

(Now aren't you sorry you asked?  ;D ;D ;D ;D)

[Cephkiller]

Realizing, of course, that most of us hold our rods closer to 45 degrees and not 90.  Also, the fact that we hold our rod butt approximately waist high and the fact that the angler is standing on his casting deck probably adds around 5-6 feet to the vertical leg of the triangle.  As a happy coincidence these forgotten factors nearly cancel each other out and the result is the 2 ft/sec slowing to 1 ft/sec still works out roughly as the correct answer.  Well done, Sir!

[FatBoy]

You're absolutely right Ceph.  Good catch!

Regardless of all the math, what we can learn from all this is that the shallower you want your lure to run, the faster you should reel.  Also, to maintain a constant depth all the way back to the boat, you need to slow down the retrieve as the lure gets closer.  If you don't slow down, the lure will rise in the water column.

I'm willing to bet most of the guys here are saying "well, duh!" ;D ;D ;D

[Cephkiller]

I'm willing to bet most of the guys here are saying "well, duh!" ;D ;D ;D

Afetr I had drawn a diagram and used a calculator and thought about all of this for a good long while I came to the same conclusion.  Oh well, it was still a fun little excercise.  All the math I ever get to do at work involves chemistry and statistics.  Physics and geometry are fun!

[FatBoy]

I'm willing to bet most of the guys here are saying "well, duh!" ;D ;D ;D

Afetr I had drawn a diagram and used a calculator and thought about all of this for a good long while I came to the same conclusion.  Oh well, it was still a fun little excercise.  All the math I ever get to do at work involves chemistry and statistics.  Physics and geometry are fun!

We're just a couple of bassin' geeks!  

[justfishin]

Fourbizzle, ;D

Thanks guys, that was a interesting post. I had the old paper and calculator out. The only math I get to do anymore afe pharmaceutical calculations for meds per patient weight. Why don't a couple of you guys figure out some brain teasers to post?

[fourbizz]

I've got one:

How many BassResource.com geeks does it take to screw on a shakey worm....

LOL! Math makes my brain hurt. Other than drinking and picking up girls, the only thing I did well at in school was English. But the word well could probably just be switched to mediocre...

[Top]

I've figured the exact fall rates of senkos and a lot of their knockoffs.  I keep it in my fishing book which lives in my tacklebox.  They come in handy when deciding to use a GYCB Senko, a Tiki Stick, or a hand-poured.

How the heck can you do that????  In the tank they look pretty identical.  (We did Dinger, *** and GYCB)

Stopwatch hooked to an actuator that was tied into an IR single beam motion sensor...(stolen Iraqi IED materials), 2 hours of time, 2 weeks of waiting for the packages to get in, and a large fish tank that we bought off of the iraqi market.

I had my wife email me the results since I left my fishing book at home.

The Tiki stick falls at 1/10th sec faster than a GYCB Senko.  Senkos and Kinamis fall at exactly the same rate.  *** falls at 1/50th of a second slower than a senko and a Dinger fell at 1/20 of a second slower.  Take into account for the human error in drop/stopwatch start button time...and yeah...they fall pretty much at exactly the same rate.... But it makes me feel better to know that there -could- be a difference and I actually use the times for faster/slower descents to choose which ones based on water temp and fish aggressiveness...and how deep I have to let it sink.  Stupid huh?

Well when I hit 14 months in country I believe I will be just like you and fish in my mind hahahahaha only thing I forget is the fish don't know all these math equations!

well done bro!

AL

[RecMar8541]

ok first off for you pi r2 guys.  Pi are round cornbread are square.....sheesh....any mook knows that.....now

if I see a bass poket protector any where at any time....im gonna take up golf!

hehehehehhehhehe

Recon

[bassmaster8100]

never seen anyone use math for fishing , guess whatever work for ya. I dont use math just time on the water experimenting with diffent methods and tequniques for me.

[SPEEDBEAD.]

I've got one:

How many BassResource.com geeks does it take to screw on a shakey worm....

LOL! Math makes my brain hurt. Other than drinking and picking up girls, the only thing I did well at in school was English. But the word well could probably just be switched to mediocre...

Bizzle, on this end, your correct spelling and typing is much appreciated...LOL

Wayne

[links_man2]

Geeeeeez---I am going fishing to clear my head of all this.  Mindless cast and catch fishing.

[RoLo]

I like your scientific approach to fishing, it's a darn-sight better than stabs in the dark.

Assuming that the lure falls at 1ft per second

Trouble is, a lure does not fall at a constant rate, but descends slower-and-slower as it nears the bottom.

Some mistakenly believe that this slowing fall-rate is due to water pressure which increases with depth.

Water however is fairly incompressible so water pressure isn't a big factor, but two other factors enter the equation:

1. Water Temperature

During its descent the lure will pass through different water temperatures. It only takes one dive off the high-dive

to appreciate the difference in water temperature between the surface and 8 ft below the surface.

Water not only seeks its own level, but is constantly re-stratifying according to temperature changes.

Warmer water is lighter than colder water, and continues to rise until it reaches a like temperature (density).

Colder water is heavier than warmer water, and continues to fall until it reaches a like temperature.

The volume of water displaced by the lure is constant, but the weight of displaced water is heavier toward the bottom.

As a result, the lure falls faster in the warmer upper strata but slower in the cooler bottom layers.

2. Line-Drag

Fishing line may look thin, but 50-foot of fishing line creates considerable drag in the water.

As the lure sinks, more of the line above the water is dragged below the surface.

Line-drag increases dramatically as the length of line in the water increases and/or the diameter of the line is increased.

For instance, anglers who do a lot of trolling soon discover that when too much line is paid astern,

the lure will actually begin riding-up in the water column rather than going deeper (i.e. line drag).

Roger

[Hookemdown.]

Wow.  I like taking a scientific approach to my fishing, but I've never gotten into it this deep.  Kudos to all of you guys that are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay smarter than me.

[hi_steel_basser]

HUH?!?!?  ;D So you're saying that a lure ought to fall in the water until you start to retreive it right? What about if you cast it 100' and feed slack for -uh-until it touches bottom? Then reel it back real nice and slow? Would the whole time warp equilibrium stratacaster thingie lose equilibrium after 30 reel handle cranks?

[Cephkiller]

No no no.  According to the arc described by Foucault's pendulum, when the lure touches the botttom of the lake, it invokes Special Relativity (which of course overturns Newtonian notions of absolute space and time) and could thus be said to actually be at rest depending on the perspective of the observer.  We could then utilize quantum theory to hypothesize that the lure could actually be at the end of the line while simultaneously residing at the tip of the rod.  The actual position of the lure could possibly be calculated using Schrödinger's wave equation and the lure could thus be said to resemble Schrödinger's cat  ;D ;D ;D

Trust me, if there are any physicists reading this, I am hilarious  ;D ;D

[Cephkiller]

BTW, if there are actually any physicists reading this, please don't critique.  Some of this isn't technically correct, I started out typing gibberish and ended with a semi - correct flourish  

[islandbass]

No no no. According to the arc described by Foucault's pendulum, when the lure touches the botttom of the lake, it invokes Special Relativity (which of course overturns Newtonian notions of absolute space and time) and could thus be said to actually be at rest depending on the perspective of the observer. We could then utilize quantum theory to hypothesize that the lure could actually be at the end of the line while simultaneously residing at the tip of the rod. The actual position of the lure could possibly be calculated using Schrödinger's wave equation and the lure could thus be said to resemble Schrödinger's cat ;D ;D ;D

Trust me, if there are any physicists reading this, I am hilarious ;D ;D

I did some experimenting in my lab last night and discovered that if you add a flux capacitor to your equation, you would alleviate the problems caused by the flow of the tachyon stream, which undoubtedly influences the line's drag. It would also enable the electrons to jump from a lower state of activity to a higher one, thus eliminating the line's drag altogether and therby adding action to the lure independent of the angler's input.  It will also allow the angler to recover line proportional to the inverse square of 1/X^2.

I am going to get some sleep now and put away my quantum physics book.  ;D

[Pond-Pro]

The Big Yellow ones the SUN

Ha Ha ;D

 I really didn't think that math beyond 6th grade applied to life at all.  We are just learning about parabolas at school and it's kinda cool to think that it might actualy matter.  Im not good at math, but its cool to know that I can almost use it with fishing.   However, all the variables in this situation make it kinda unpracticle.  I'd rather just through a deep suspending jerkbait anyway.  

Thanks for posting that, it was interesting.

[FatBoy]

No no no.  According to the arc described by Foucault's pendulum, when the lure touches the botttom of the lake, it invokes Special Relativity (which of course overturns Newtonian notions of absolute space and time) and could thus be said to actually be at rest depending on the perspective of the observer.  We could then utilize quantum theory to hypothesize that the lure could actually be at the end of the line while simultaneously residing at the tip of the rod.  The actual position of the lure could possibly be calculated using Schrödinger's wave equation and the lure could thus be said to resemble Schrödinger's cat  ;D ;D ;D

Trust me, if there are any physicists reading this, I am hilarious  ;D ;D

I'm a chemical engineer, not a physicist.  But that's still kinda funny!  ;D ;D ;D

(You don't see references to the Schroedinger wave equation on BassResource.com very often!!!)