Need Some Help...

[Rick99]

Guys I'm looking for some advice and I know there are a lot of variables here but I'm looking for some basic help as I know a lot depends on the lake, time, weather water conditions etc...I fish Marsh Creek Lake here in PA. It's man made, deepest is 60 feet by the d**n.its something like 535 acres in total. There is no structure in any of the deeper waters. There's a few down trees and some cribs that were placed in 5 to 15 feet of water. Weeds are being sprayed and managed and very little growth. In June I was catching 4lbers (which is pretty good for PA) using 4.5inch plastic crawfish types weighted with a split shot and beating the banks. This lake is notorious for skunking people over the years. I usually do well in June every year and usually in 2 to 10 feet of water. I go to these Tournaments now on Tuesday Nights 6 to 10 and I keep getting skunked. I tried senko types, my crawfish types, crankbaits....nothing. There's usually about 22 boats. 10 to 15 getting skunked. Than there are the guys catching limits. I can't get advice from them but would love some pointers. Not sure if I'm missing a technique? I never fish with spinners or spoons. That's a big hole in my game. Not sure what they are using or where but I am on this lake a few times a week for a few years now and just can't get a grasp on how to fish this in July and August and catch limits at these tourneys. I tend to stay with weighted plastic creature types. Any advice is greatly appreciated!

[Rick99]

Here is the best Map I could find. I did post it last year

http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/cs/groups/public/documents/document/dcnr_20030690.zip

[d-camarena]

You gotta think outside the box. For example, today i fished a river by my house that is notorious for the bass not biting. Most people get skunked there even though there are tons of bass there. I was throwing my usual texas rig, then my usual wacky worm...nothing. i switched to a squarebill crankbait and a spoon and still nothing. Than out of nowhere i decide to put on the only topwater frog i own, bought it over a year ago and never used it. First cast WHAMM! 4LBer, than a 3lber. Anyways just be versatile, some of these fish have seen it all. Sometimes all you gotta do is change your game up. And try to master many different lures

[d-camarena]

Get yourself a spoon and a spinnerbait and have some confidence in them

[Bluebasser86]

Sounds like good conditions for a Ned rig and a swimbait. 

[Lund Explorer]

Guys I'm looking for some advice and I know there are a lot of variables here but I'm looking for some basic help as I know a lot depends on the lake, time, weather water conditions etc...I fish Marsh Creek Lake here in PA. It's man made, deepest is 60 feet by the d**n.its something like 535 acres in total. There is no structure in any of the deeper waters. There's a few down trees and some cribs that were placed in 5 to 15 feet of water. Weeds are being sprayed and managed and very little growth. In June I was catching 4lbers (which is pretty good for PA) using 4.5inch plastic crawfish types weighted with a split shot and beating the banks. This lake is notorious for skunking people over the years. I usually do well in June every year and usually in 2 to 10 feet of water. I go to these Tournaments now on Tuesday Nights 6 to 10 and I keep getting skunked. I tried senko types, my crawfish types, crankbaits....nothing. There's usually about 22 boats. 10 to 15 getting skunked. Than there are the guys catching limits. I can't get advice from them but would love some pointers. Not sure if I'm missing a technique? I never fish with spinners or spoons. That's a big hole in my game. Not sure what they are using or where but I am on this lake a few times a week for a few years now and just can't get a grasp on how to fish this in July and August and catch limits at these tourneys. I tend to stay with weighted plastic creature types. Any advice is greatly appreciated!

 

Doing the simple math, that means that there are about 7 boats still catching fish.  I'd bet even money that its the same seven, right?

 

Time for some constructive criticism.  Your post makes it sound like you need help in finding the lure or technique to get you back on the 4lber's you were catching last month, and that's wrong.  The real problem has nothing to do with the lure and everything to do with location.  If you are fishing the same lures in the same locations and the results have changed, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the fish have changed and you haven't.

 

Time for some advice.  Your tournament is only four hours long, so you need to concentrate your efforts on the limited amount of remaining cover, whether its those trees, cribs, or a patch of weeds that didn't get sprayed into oblivion.  If after the first two hours you still haven't put anything in the box, put down the rods and take a boat ride.  By now you should have figured out what the "lucky" seven are fishing out of, so go look for them.  At less than 600 acres, it shouldn't take too long to find all of them.  See where they're fishing at, mark those spots on your GPS, and then go back to those spots a day or two later, and see what those areas hold (besides fish).  Once you've figured out what the "lucky" guys are targeting, make yourself some luck by finding somewhere that has the same conditions/cover/whatever that's holding fish.

[Lund Explorer]

Sounds like good conditions for a Ned rig and a swimbait. 

 

Sounds like this thread should have moved to the tournament section rather than the fishing tackle section.

 

The problem has nothing to do with his choice of lures.

[scaleface]

I couldnt get the map to open but it seems to me that you are confuting structure with cover. There has to be deep structure in a 535 acre man made lake .

[Grizzn N Bassin]

Probably drag jigs and throw swimbaits that's what I do everywhere

[Rick99]

Guys thanks for all the advice so far. Lundexplorer your dead on. I am struggling to adapt. I fish beating the banks and lay downs with plastic and crankbaits but have had zero luck during these tourneys for a few years now once the banks SMTP producing. Sorry if this is posted in the wrong forum, thought I put it in the general forum. Scale face, there is no deep structure or deep weed beds in this lake. I have been fishing it for years and took many a ride with my depth finder to map it and try to find structure. This is a common complaint about this lake. They are killing the weeds as well and he locals are mad as the bass population has limited places to hide. I think but I'm not sure the more advanced fisherman are fishing the points. I'm going to have to try and follow them to see. It's a really tough lake and our local forums always have posters complaint about getting skunked on such a big lake. Hopefully this Map will open.

http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/cs/groups/public/documents/document/dcnr_003692.pdf

[scaleface]

That map shows several points . Points are structure .

[scaleface]

That map doesnt show lake topography but those points surely extend into the lake. If I were to visit that lake for the first time I would   find the depth of the thermocline  and fish   those points down to that depth with texas rigs and 1/4 ounce weights . 

[Rick99]

That map shows several points . Points are structure .

Good to know, I've beating the banks including the banks of the points. I wouldn't have classfified them as structure but if that is what everyone else does than I learned something today.

[Rick99]

That map doesnt show lake topography but those points surely extend into the lake. If I were to visit that lake for the first time I would   find the depth of the thermocline  and fish   those points down to that depth with texas rigs and 1/4 ounce weights .

trying to find a topo map...if I do I will post. I had one but can't find it now.

[smalljaw67]

I'm from PA and sadly a lot of lakes are like that, I fish Blue Marsh and the same deal. Blue Marsh has Tuesday night jackpots and you get a lot of times the guy that won the previous Tuesday ended up zeroing the next. It isn't you, the problem is the lake, what is going on is the bass density is low, PA fish commission will tell you this, I've spoke with them lots of times and they don't take active management of self sustaining species. Being that there is low density what you find is bass aren't holding to any particular area, they become nomadic so what happens is the don't school up enough to find them on the depth finder so you are fishing blind most of the time fishing what little visible structure you can find. Because the fish are wandering with the food source they rarely stay in one spot so the spots that worked today may not hold a fish tomorrow and unless the population is increased or you end up with large weed flats that will give home to forage and give the bass a place to hold rather than wander, your fishing there won't change much. As I said, I've fished a lot of tournaments in PA and I've fished Marsh Creek Lake and it is like every other lake in PA, low bass density and sail boat clubs paying big money for permits to kill of vegetation or the corp of engineers owns the lake for flood control and the winter draw down kills off any weed growth once it starts and the lakes end up barren dead seas. The only way to fix your problem is to move around the lake and it is hard to do as it is actually a big lake for electric only so if you aren't around fish, the bait doesn't matter and that is the problem. During the colder months, the fish don't move as much and there is less pressure so they move to predictable places which explains why you can get them in spring but summer is different and again, I spoke to the fisheries biologist for the southeastern quadrant and he told me most of the lakes in our state have low bass density due to there being a much more diverse ecology, that means because a watershed holds 35 different species of fish, bass have to remain at low levels to protect other low level critters from being removed from the watershed making for lousy bass fishing. The only places that offer good bass fishing is the Susquehanna, Juniata, and Delaware rivers but for the Susquehanna, and Juniata, you need to either float fish in canoe, kayak, or jon boat, or have a specialized jet boat, a fiberglass or thin aluminum bass boat won't fare well on the rivers, you need thick hulls with 1/2" to 3/4" UHMW plastic attached to the bottom to allow the boats to slide off the rocks.

[Rick99]

I'm from PA and sadly a lot of lakes are like that, I fish Blue Marsh and the same deal. Blue Marsh has Tuesday night jackpots and you get a lot of times the guy that won the previous Tuesday ended up zeroing the next. It isn't you, the problem is the lake, what is going on is the bass density is low, PA fish commission will tell you this, I've spoke with them lots of times and they don't take active management of self sustaining species. Being that there is low density what you find is bass aren't holding to any particular area, they become nomadic so what happens is the don't school up enough to find them on the depth finder so you are fishing blind most of the time fishing what little visible structure you can find. Because the fish are wandering with the food source they rarely stay in one spot so the spots that worked today may not hold a fish tomorrow and unless the population is increased or you end up with large weed flats that will give home to forage and give the bass a place to hold rather than wander, your fishing there won't change much. As I said, I've fished a lot of tournaments in PA and I've fished Marsh Creek Lake and it is like every other lake in PA, low bass density and sail boat clubs paying big money for permits to kill of vegetation or the corp of engineers owns the lake for flood control and the winter draw down kills off any weed growth once it starts and the lakes end up barren dead seas. The only way to fix your problem is to move around the lake and it is hard to do as it is actually a big lake for electric only so if you aren't around fish, the bait doesn't matter and that is the problem. During the colder months, the fish don't move as much and there is less pressure so they move to predictable places which explains why you can get them in spring but summer is different and again, I spoke to the fisheries biologist for the southeastern quadrant and he told me most of the lakes in our state have low bass density due to there being a much more diverse ecology, that means because a watershed holds 35 different species of fish, bass have to remain at low levels to protect other low level critters from being removed from the watershed making for lousy bass fishing. The only places that offer good bass fishing is the Susquehanna, Juniata, and Delaware rivers but for the Susquehanna, and Juniata, you need to either float fish in canoe, kayak, or jon boat, or have a specialized jet boat, a fiberglass or thin aluminum bass boat won't fare well on the rivers, you need thick hulls with 1/2" to 3/4" UHMW plastic attached to the bottom to allow the boats to slide off the rocks.

thanks for the post. This makes a lot of sense. Year after year this Lake is so tough to fish yet some do well. I am assuming they have a honey hole that I need to find or get lucky and be where the fish are passing by. Blue Marsh is really tough too. I don't go there at all....I live 5 minutes above Marsh Creek Lake and am so happy I am close to fishing but frustration with this lake most of the time.

[Rick99]

thanks for the post. This makes a lot of sense. Year after year this Lake is so tough to fish yet some do well. I am assuming they have a honey hole that I need to find or get lucky and be where the fish are passing by. Blue Marsh is really tough too. I don't go there at all....I live 5 minutes above Marsh Creek Lake and am so happy I am close to fishing but frustration with this lake most of the time.

Here is the best map I can find

 

[Fishes in trees]

Here's the logic I'd follow.   The lake has points.  Points don't stop at the bank, they continue out into the lake.   Somewhere, there is a place where the point intersects with the thermocline.  That is where I'd concentrate most of my fishing time.  Think low and slow.   One of the previous suggestions of busting out the Ned rig is a good one.  If that's too tedious for you, a close second would be 1/4 or 3/16 oz Brewer Slider heads on 6 or 8 lb test.  ( 6 is better)   This will get you a little faster drop that you'll get with the ned rig.

 

Option B is to find the bait.  If you find the bait fish, the bass won't be very far - guaranteed.  In any case - it is officially summer.  Get away from beating the banks - that is a fairly low percentage ploy in the middle of summer in a lake with little vegetation.

 

Option C might be to drag football jigs or a carolina rig around the same areas, i.e. where the depth on the point intersects with the thermocline.

 

It could be that you don't have a rig that is appropriate for fishing a Ned rig or Brewer Sliders, or football jigs or what have you.   Go buy one.  If you have any tournament experience at all, you should be aware of the futility of trying to "make do" at tournament time.   "Making do" is in the realm of the recreational fisherman, if you're doing tournaments, get the correct gear for the specific technique and give yourself your best chance to succeed.    The ONLY thing that trying to "make do" achieves in tournament situations is that it gives you a convenient excuse should you not succeed.

 

Another idea - if the lake doesn't have convenient cover - make your own.  Sink some brush piles on the various points.   Try to be discreet about this.

[Gundog]

I'm from PA and sadly a lot of lakes are like that, I fish Blue Marsh and the same deal. Blue Marsh has Tuesday night jackpots and you get a lot of times the guy that won the previous Tuesday ended up zeroing the next. It isn't you, the problem is the lake, what is going on is the bass density is low, PA fish commission will tell you this, I've spoke with them lots of times and they don't take active management of self sustaining species. Being that there is low density what you find is bass aren't holding to any particular area, they become nomadic so what happens is the don't school up enough to find them on the depth finder so you are fishing blind most of the time fishing what little visible structure you can find. Because the fish are wandering with the food source they rarely stay in one spot so the spots that worked today may not hold a fish tomorrow and unless the population is increased or you end up with large weed flats that will give home to forage and give the bass a place to hold rather than wander, your fishing there won't change much. As I said, I've fished a lot of tournaments in PA and I've fished Marsh Creek Lake and it is like every other lake in PA, low bass density and sail boat clubs paying big money for permits to kill of vegetation or the corp of engineers owns the lake for flood control and the winter draw down kills off any weed growth once it starts and the lakes end up barren dead seas. The only way to fix your problem is to move around the lake and it is hard to do as it is actually a big lake for electric only so if you aren't around fish, the bait doesn't matter and that is the problem. During the colder months, the fish don't move as much and there is less pressure so they move to predictable places which explains why you can get them in spring but summer is different and again, I spoke to the fisheries biologist for the southeastern quadrant and he told me most of the lakes in our state have low bass density due to there being a much more diverse ecology, that means because a watershed holds 35 different species of fish, bass have to remain at low levels to protect other low level critters from being removed from the watershed making for lousy bass fishing. The only places that offer good bass fishing is the Susquehanna, Juniata, and Delaware rivers but for the Susquehanna, and Juniata, you need to either float fish in canoe, kayak, or jon boat, or have a specialized jet boat, a fiberglass or thin aluminum bass boat won't fare well on the rivers, you need thick hulls with 1/2" to 3/4" UHMW plastic attached to the bottom to allow the boats to slide off the rocks.

 

I know what you are saying about Blue Marsh Lake. I've fished there in the past and never caught any bass. I have talked to tourney anglers and the PA fish&boat commission members and the anglers always have trouble finding fish. Your right the fish&boat comm. doesn't do anything for bass lakes except change size limit (which does nothing cause most people don't keep bass). 

[smalljaw67]

I know what you are saying about Blue Marsh Lake. I've fished there in the past and never caught any bass. I have talked to tourney anglers and the PA fish&boat commission members and the anglers always have trouble finding fish. Your right the fish&boat comm. doesn't do anything for bass lakes except change size limit (which does nothing cause most people don't keep bass). 

 

I still fish with guys from the club I belonged to but I'm no longer an active member because I can't go out of state for tournaments anymore, at least not on a regular basis. Most clubs here have their tournaments on the Potomac, or Lake Oneida, or Cayuga and then 1 or 2 tournaments in PA and the reason is because we've had tournaments in which the top 3 places caught 1 or 2 and the rest of the field zeroed or didn't catch a keeper fish. I've caught bass in Blue Marsh, and my one buddy is good there, but good means he catches 1 or 2 just about every outing, he won quite a few tournaments there with 3 fish but he burns a lot of gas, I think the time we did keep track on the GPS, we traveled 11 miles total for the day for 2 fish. The problem is 3 things, the first is no weeds, the second is farm run off in the Tulpahocken  creek, it creates blue-green algae and the fish that spawn there end up having the eggs blocked out of sunlight as there is zero feet visibility. The 3rd problem is it is a flood control lake, and the water levels fluctuate a lot and that leads to poor spawning, the fisheries biologist told me there hasn't been a successful spawn in Blue Marsh for at least 8 years now, almost all the bass in there now are stocked and if the Izak Walton League stops stocking it, the lake won't have a catchable population within 5 years. Marsh creek is a little different, but it has the same prople lakes up your way have, like Wallanpaupak, and Harvey's Lake, it has 30 different species of fish and the bass densities are low for the size of the lake, I asked the fisheries biologist about implementing slot limits and they won't do it, so the people who eat bass, and don't fool yourself, there are a lot of anglers that take them, end up taking the very fish you want to breed, the larger ones, and leaving the small ones and then you end up with lakes like Mauch Chunk where there is a good population of bass but the last time the lake was surveyed the fish commission discovered the bass were stunted and it was because of the "Big Bass" regulations, people can only take the largest fish so it leaves nothing but little fish. The state of Pennsylvania only worries about the put and take trout fishery, every time I asked or when our club tried for better regulations we would get the same old phrase, "Bass are a self sustaining species and therefore do not need to be stocked" or they need very little management. So that is why we have a better climate and longer growing season than New York but bass fishing is horrendous unless you own a Jet boat and fish the river and I say thank God for the Susquehanna and Juniata river systems, because those are the only good places to fish for bass.