Upgrading Rods - Buy Or Build?

[junyer357]

i am currently in the process of beginning to upgrade pretty much all of my rods across the board. Most of mine are either cheaper ($70-100ish) or older (12+ years same price ranges). Since upgrading a couple to better rods i am convinced to upgrade the rest. The better ones i have (2 avids) and have used are simply lighter, more sensitive, and resposive. I can tell how much the weight matters more now in my shoulders around midday depending on what im using. Lifting and working my avid worm rod all several hours doesnt work my shoulders like my bass pro jig rod does, since it feels like a broomstick in comparison.

So here is my concern/question. Would i be better off in long run just saving up and buying a good quaility high end rod one at a time as i currently am, or would i be better off in long run learning to build rods and building them?

I am looking to upgrade 10-12 rods total spinning and casting. 5 cranks, 1 jig, 3 spinner/buzz, 1 frog, as well as a spinning crankbaits and a spinning for senkos/shakeys.

[Batson]

The avids are great rods.. But saving up and getting better rods is always the best route! Ever think of getting them custom? They aren't as expensive as you think and you can get the rods built however you want them! 

 

And to prove the cost factor.

Medium priced rods = $200-$250   If you built them exactly the way they appear, your cost would be in the $125 range.. 

Expensive rods = $400-$600  If you built them exactly the way they appear, your cost would be in the $200-$250 range..

 

You do have the costs of equipment etc.. but this is amortized in how many rods your building. If your going to build 10-12 rods or so.. I would say the setup for rod building would cost around $400 with a decent power wrapper and your supplies. So over 10 rods that means your equipment costs is about $40.00 a rod. But this allows you to build anything at any time in any fashion! FYI, Where rod building gets expensive tends to be upgrading your components to higher end since now you can afford it. 

 

Ask away if you have any questions. Also go to our https://www.youtube.com/user/BatsonEnterprisesfor info how to build. If you see this video, even our President and CEO build rods! 

[HoosierHawgs]

What "low end" rods are you looking to replace?

[junyer357]

Some bps pro q's and extremes, on old daiwa samurai (prob close to 20yo), american rodsmiths, castaway, and lastly some blue ethos from acadamy. Thats what i can remember off the top of my head. The ethos will probably be later on since they are not bad for what i gave and may also end up becoming my gf's rods if she continues wanting to fish. I have a st croix premeier spinnning i bought a month ago my dad called dibs on as well but its a much later change out as well.

[FD.]

Batson is dead on the money when it comes to cost savings for your personal use.  You can build a $300 (retail) rod for $150 in parts.  Less if you shop around and are not in a hurry.

 

I built my first 10 or so rods on a hand wrapper with a basic start up kit and a few extra tools that will cost you under $200.  That's $10 a rod for ten rods.

 

This is one example  http://www.mudhole.com/Rod-Building/Supply-Kits-Tool-Kits/All-In-One-Rod-Building-Supply-Kit

 

Custom built (but not crazy custom) rods are in the $10 - $15 per foot range to have someone else build it for you.  Still under the cost of a higher performance retail rod.

[FD.]

Another thing I forgot to mention is the supreme self satisfaction of catching a fish on a rod you either designed  or built yourself.

 

Be warned though, it is more addicting than crack....

[junyer357]

I would agree that making them myself would potentially save money. I try to do anything i can at home myself for this reason.

My concern is sinking several hundered dollars into another hobby and then ending up with mediocre performing rods due to my skill level at it and wishing i had either bought a custom or off rack instead.

[junyer357]

Another thing I forgot to mention is the supreme self satisfaction of catching a fish on a rod you either designed or built yourself.

Be warned though, it is more addicting than crack....

Yea i understand. I already have been making/painting lures on n off for a few years now.

[FD.]

I would agree that making them myself would potentially save money. I try to do anything i can at home myself for this reason.

My concern is sinking several hundered dollars into another hobby and then ending up with mediocre performing rods due to my skill level at it and wishing i had either bought a custom or off rack instead.

 

 

If you can tie tie your shoes and follow a few directions you can build rods equal to or better than 90% of the rods on a shelf.  The main performance factor is the blank you start with.

 

For example.  Last month I bought a discontinued, new old stock blank for $38. It would have retailed around $90 a couple of years ago.   I have around $10 in the handle and reel seat.  I put a used set of guides that came off an old BPS rod.  I wrapped the guides all crooked.  I have maybe two hours total build time in it.

 

The reason I did this was 1. I was bored and 2.  I wanted to see how much performance difference the build makes.  Not as much as you would think.  It fishes equivalent to a St Croix legend that I gave to my nephew.

 

The point is, you can do it.  Start with a cheap rod kit available from several suppliers and build your first one.  You will see.

[junyer357]

Ok. My thoughts on it were that if i did get into building i would start on a few crank rods before i work on a jig rod. This way i become better before i work on a contact rod where feeling is everything. If i decide to purchase custom or off rack it would be opposite and get the jig rod first.

[Dwight Hottle]

St Croix sells blanks across their entire line up.

[Batson]

We sell blanks and components as well.

 

But here is the point. Once you get into rod building and customizing, all of a sudden you start to question the built rods that you were buying. Were they really selling a rod for what it was worth or was a jewelry on a just ok blank?? 

 

Im all in favor of built rods too. Built rods make it super convenient to buy. A few built rod manufacturers make amazing rods for both low end and high end rods.. But they are few and far between especially when you get into rod building. If you look at our website: http://alpsforecast.com/products/handle-kits/forecast-handle-kits/

Most of these "handle kits" found on built rods are all the same. Now price: Retails for $25.00-50.00 or so.. So if you buy a rod that is lets say $200 and the "handle" looks no different than the kits we have formed, are you getting a blank that is $150-175?? I can answer it by saying no! Our Eternity2 which is top of the line is in that price range. Some say its the cream of the crop when it comes to rod blanks. But looking at it for performance vs cost. You get both and build it any way you want! Where it gets expensive is saying, I don't want a "handle kit" I want a MVT Toray reel seat. Ok well that reel seat is $50.00 alone.

 

You get the picture now. 

[BDfishing]

What's the pricing on the Eternity2 blanks

[MickD]

Batson is right on. I'll just add  a couple points.  I've built dozens of rods and never used a power wrapper.  I just upgraded to what essentially is  a power wrapper base and supports without the motor/chuck.  So it is possible to build great rods with homemade wrappers.

 

If you decide to build, I recommend starting with a reasonably priced kit rather than the ultimate blank you aspire to.  You will get better with every build, but will make mistakes, and better not to make the mistakes on a $150 blank.  One of my first rods was built with the distance between the reel and the butt too long and I had to cut 1 1/2 inches off the butt of a St Croix SCV.  Ouch!  Still a great rod, but. . .

 

Another good forum that focuses entirely on rodbuilding is http://www.rodbuilding.org/list.php?2.

 

I suggest you get onto that forum and see what people there are talking about.  It has a good search function so you can search for specifics easily.

 

Do an internet search for "flex coat rodbuilding videos" to find some really good instructional material.

 

Rodbuilding is very satisfying and if you enjoy it you will have found a lifetime hobby that will reward you with rods that exactly fit  what you want.  

[junyer357]

Yea. That is my next step is to join a dedicated rod forum and read and learn. I did that when i got into painting cranks. Im leaning more torward getting into it but im still weighing out my options as well. I am checking in on costs to have some built for me instead as well. Im too old and funds are too tight to waste on quick decisions anymore. Nowdays i try to do more research and prethought into purchases and hobbies.

[Batson]

Agreed with MickD! Do not go and try rod building on an expensive blank as your first build. Go and build on something like our RX6 or even a SPG EGlass blank.. This way you get some experience in building. So much information on how to build, where to build, etc.. Watch as many videos as you can. We will be releasing a good series on how to build.

 

So far this is what we have: https://www.youtube.com/user/BatsonEnterprises

[junyer357]

yea if i do decide to go into building i would start with cheaper blanks and work on crankbait and light crappie/creek floating rods first. Im not as concerned about feel and finish on those as i am a bottom contact rod like  I am jigs or worms.

 

I made the mistake when i got into painting cranks of painting over some of my best lures first. I figured "eh been doing ok on painting cardboard lets give this a shot on and repaint some of my good cranks...". I now have a trashed $15 lucky craft crank that sits on my painting table as a reminder of what not to do. 

[junyer357]

Batson is right on. I'll just add a couple points. I've built dozens of rods and never used a power wrapper. I just upgraded to what essentially is a power wrapper base and supports without the motor/chuck. So it is possible to build great rods with homemade wrappers.

If you decide to build, I recommend starting with a reasonably priced kit rather than the ultimate blank you aspire to. You will get better with every build, but will make mistakes, and better not to make the mistakes on a $150 blank. One of my first rods was built with the distance between the reel and the butt too long and I had to cut 1 1/2 inches off the butt of a St Croix SCV. Ouch! Still a great rod, but. . .

Another good forum that focuses entirely on rodbuilding is http://www.rodbuilding.org/list.php?2.

I suggest you get onto that forum and see what people there are talking about. It has a good search function so you can search for specifics easily.

Do an internet search for "flex coat rodbuilding videos" to find some really good instructional material.

Rodbuilding is very satisfying and if you enjoy it you will have found a lifetime hobby that will reward you with rods that exactly fit what you want.

Ive pretty much made up my mind to get into it. Planning to get a power turner, i can also use it when painting cranks. I will probably buy a threader to match and help as a holder. I think i am going to start on a light 6' spinning blank for rooster tails and such.

Forbthose of you who have been doing this a while, where would you say the biggest learning curves are?

[MickD]

Ive pretty much made up my mind to get into it. Planning to get a power turner, i can also use it when painting cranks. I will probably buy a threader to match and help as a holder. I think i am going to start on a light 6' spinning blank for rooster tails and such.

Forbthose of you who have been doing this a while, where would you say the biggest learning curves are?

I think that the application of epoxy to the guide wraps gives us more trouble than other areas, so I guess I'd say that.  Getting a smooth, even  edge, the right amount of epoxy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ive pretty much made up my mind to get into it. Planning to get a power turner, i can also use it when painting cranks. I will probably buy a threader to match and help as a holder. I think i am going to start on a light 6' spinning blank for rooster tails and such.

Forbthose of you who have been doing this a while, where would you say the biggest learning curves are?

Since epoxy application seems to give us the most trouble, I'd say finishing the wraps.  Attaining the smooth, even, edge, the right amount of epoxy, finding a color preservative that works well for you.  Surprisingly, some swear by a brand while others curse it. Some don't use it, and you'll need to know how to determine what the color will be without CP.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some use brushes for epoxy, others use spatulas.  I'll give you tip so you can avoid a mistake that most of us have made:  Use syringes every time to measure two part epoxies, exactly the same amounts of both components.

[FD.]

Epoxy as Mick said and thread work on smaller guides. Not overly difficult but will take some practice.

[papajoe222]

If you decide to build yourself, you can reduce costs even more by waiting until your supplier offers free shipping and then ordering the components for multiple builds. Ordering more than one blank will save on shipping costs, too.

[Batson]

None of it is difficult... Just watch a ton of videos and enjoy! I think the best quote I have ever heard was from the infamous Docski!! He says: "Its not about perfection, its about progression."

 

If you need help again our youtube should provide good feedback: https://www.youtube.com/user/BatsonEnterprises

[BobP]

I never saved money building rods on inexpensive blanks.  Yes, I still liked a hand built rod that cost $75-100 in parts (like an S Glass crankbait rod), but I can buy finished name brand rods made in China for that price that work just as well, without the work involved.  Where you begin to save actual money is rods that retail for around $125 and more.  And you save lots on rods in the $200+ range.  It's good to use some inexpensive parts to practice on for the first couple of rods, but keep in mind where the real cost savings begin. 

[MickD]

If you check out the other string of posts on "Advantage of building your own rods?" you will quickly come to the conclusion that building is the way to go with upgrading your rods.  Good decision.

[junyer357]

If you check out the other string of posts on "Advantage of building your own rods?" you will quickly come to the conclusion that building is the way to go with upgrading your rods. Good decision.

Yea. I have been following it as well. Ive made up my mind to get into it. Just looking and researching best way to get into it equipment/supply wise. Looking at getting an "all in one" kit to begin with that includes a threader and turner motor. Then i can see how fast i use what other supplys and order accordingly.