Super User MIbassyaker Posted June 16, 2015 Super User Posted June 16, 2015 Behavioral Modification is not learning! If bass indeed were capable of learning as Mr Jones proclaims for weeks, months, or possible longer, then in small bodies of water with heavy fishing pressure the bass would cease to hit anything because they would have learned every lure. A spinner bait is a spinner bait to a bass; they can not distinguish a Stanley from a Strike King from a Booyah! Once they learned one name brand of spinner bait they would know them all! And yes I have a degree in the Philosophy of Science! Human learning is not limited to behavior modification, but that doesn't mean behavior modification and conditioning are not learning! The accepted definition of "Learning" as used in the behavioral sciences is very broad, and boils down to "a relatively permanent change in behavior resulting from experience". Now, regardless of whether you think that's a good definition or not, whether bass have a lasting change in behavior from experience with lures is the thing at issue, and that's what these studies show. Jones is not simply proclaiming bass learn to avoid lures; he is reporting the results a experiment showing they avoid a minnow lure. The bass stopped hitting the lure as often -- that's simply a fact about what happened in the study. Of course, the study doesn't show all bass learn to completely avoid every lure, always, under all circumstances, in all waters. the particular experiment used a minnow imitator. They didn't test other baits; maybe spinnerbaits, say, are different. We also don't know how well their learned avoidance to the minnow bait generalizes to other lures that are similar but not the same thing. And the bass didn't stop hitting it completely, just greatly reduced. 1 Quote
Super User Catt Posted June 16, 2015 Super User Posted June 16, 2015 Mlbassyanker, I can change your behavior by simply giving you a pill. Do you learn to change your behavior or was your behavior modified? Quote
SHaugh Posted June 16, 2015 Posted June 16, 2015 Somebody read this and give us the "for Dummies" version in the morning.. https://books.google.com/books?id=onPYj942k34C&pg=PA279&lpg=PA279&dq=fish+ability+to+associate+stimuli+with+responses&source=bl&ots=YhhcXzDkmn&sig=g1wGiTVSvtXSEZYNBQsabyVM0iA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCEQ6AEwAWoVChMIivOmjZCVxgIVCwysCh3DvgCY#v=onepage&q&f=false Quote
Super User MIbassyaker Posted June 16, 2015 Super User Posted June 16, 2015 Mlbassyanker, I can change your behavior by simply giving you a pill. Do you learn to change your behavior or was your behavior modified? Behavior changed as a result of the chemical action of the pill, not experience, therefore: not learning! Also, presumably, unless the pill caused lasting damage, once its effects wear off, I will be back to normal, so not "relatively permanent" (possible headache notwithstanding!) But definitions aside, the experiment pretty clearly shows reduced lure-striking behavior with prior experience. So it seems it does happen, whether or not you agree with calling "learning". Quote
CeeJay Posted June 16, 2015 Posted June 16, 2015 Anyone ever had a pet goldfish? Of course fish can "learn", and also "recognize". I did an experiment once. My roommate at the time claimed that goldfish have a memory of merely a few seconds (he apparently read something stating that online). I told him to walk up close and look into the aquarium and see what happens. (Keep in mind that my roommate had never fed the fish before, only me.) Well "Junior" (the name of my goldfish) looked back at him.... and that was it. No going to the top expecting some fish flakes or anything like that. Then I walked over, and looked into the aquarium.... and Junior immediately went to the top of the water acting "excited", because he recognized me and associated me with feeding him. Obviously this wasn't done in even a remotely scientific way...but it did prove to myself and my roommate that Junior the Goldfish could distinguish between me (the person who always fed him) and someone else (who had never fed him)...and had a memory of a lot longer than a few seconds. Perhaps Largemouth bass are just not as intelligent as a goldfish, haha Or perhaps fish can indeed "learn" in some way despite their tiny brains. Or maybe Junior (currently residing in fish heaven) was an exception...who knows, but that is indeed a true story. Quote
Super User Catt Posted June 17, 2015 Super User Posted June 17, 2015 Sorry y'all! On the list of physical ailments I have really bad sinus problems & yesterday afternoon almost landed me in the ER, I'm at about 60% this morning. I'll be back Quote
Super User WRB Posted June 17, 2015 Super User Posted June 17, 2015 Get well Tommy and stay dry! Tom Quote
Super User MIbassyaker Posted June 17, 2015 Super User Posted June 17, 2015 Yikes, Catt! Take care and get well soon! Quote
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