How Much Strength Is Double Eye Wrapped Knots Over Single Wrap?

[hoosierbass07]

  OK, the king of bass fishing knots is probably the Palomar knot.  One of its strengths come from the fact you make two wraps around the eye of the hook.  Most will agree knots with two wraps around the eye is stronger than single wraps.  

 

 What I'm wondering - how much stronger, on a percentage basis, are double wrapped eyes over single wrapped eye knots?  Do two wraps increase strength by 10%, 20%, 50% or more or less?  

 

 How much strength does that double wrap add when doing the Palomar or Trilene knot over the single eye wrap uni-knot?  I ask because I was looking at a site that test knots and that uni-knot seemed pretty darn impressive.  

 

http://www.leeroysramblings.com/strong_knots.htm

 

 

 I do like the Palomar knot but I'm getting a little tired of tying it.  The Trilene knot is OK but still, I can tie the Uni-knot pretty quick.  But I don't have much experience with the Uni-knot.  I mostly fish with mono from 6 to 10 pound line.  

 

 I guess I'm going to have to bite the bullet and simply try out the Uni-knot and see how it holds up.  But the thought of breaking off a hook and leaving it in the mouth of a bass makes me shy away from using anything but the dependable Palomar knot.  

[Bruce424]

Double up the uni knot. Try that out

[WPCfishing]

I double every knot I tie. I use the new Trilene knot most of the time now.

[PitchinJigz]

I use the double clinch knot for fluoro and mono and a palomar for braid. I believe it makes a significant difference.

[SirSnookalot]

Addressing knots to a hook or lure eye, lures get a loopknot I double wrap.  Hooks and jig heads I use an ordinary clinch knot, leader size varies with species and/or water conditions.  The clinch knot fails under 2 scenarios, it isn't tied right and will usually un-ravel before it breaks, or trying to land a larger fish with a 10# leader then tightening the drag too much as panic sets in.  IMO the knot hasn't failed, the landing technique did.  In heavier vegetation I'd be using a heavier leader using the same knot,works just fine for me.

Braid users without leader, I can't see any properly tied knot breaking with 50# test.

[PitchinJigz]

Addressing knots to a hook or lure eye, lures get a loopknot I double wrap. Hooks and jig heads I use an ordinary clinch knot, leader size varies with species and/or water conditions. The clinch knot fails under 2 scenarios, it isn't tied right and will usually un-ravel before it breaks, or trying to land a larger fish with a 10# leader then tightening the drag too much as panic sets in. IMO the knot hasn't failed, the landing technique did. In heavier vegetation I'd be using a heavier leader using the same knot,works just fine for me.

Braid users without leader, I can't see any properly tied knot breaking with 50# test.

The clinch knot is slightly notorious for unraveling with braided line because of braid's flat shape.

[SirSnookalot]

The clinch knot is slightly notorious for unraveling with braided line because of braid's flat shape.

You're not wrong, it can unravel.  I only fish with leaders, I will on occasion tie braid to a swivel.  I used to use an improved clinch with pretty fair success until I watched Henry Waszczuk fishing the flats.  He demonstrated his version on the improved clinch with a second wrap.  I've been using it ever since, never used a knot I liked better for braid and swivel.  If I were to fish say a frog with straight braid, I'd be using this knot.

[PitchinJigz]

You're not wrong, it can unravel. I only fish with leaders, I will on occasion tie braid to a swivel. I used to use an improved clinch with pretty fair success until I watched Henry Waszczuk fishing the flats. He demonstrated his version on the improved clinch with a second wrap. I've been using it ever since, never used a knot I liked better for braid and swivel. If I were to fish say a frog with straight braid, I'd be using this knot.

Interesting. I'll try to find it. When I tie direct with braid, I always use the palomar because it is so quick and easy. Plus I don't see 50lb braid breaking very easy with any knot.

[hatrix]

I don't think the palomar knot is "the king" of knots. Really it's kind of a crappy knot IMO and is way over rated. It is maybe the most well known knot in the US. Well that or the improved clinch I guess. The only knots I tie any more and some form of slip knot. It's either a San Diego Jam or a Uni. They are both super easy to tie and come out perfectly like every time. I don't even know the last time I cut one off cause it was messed up. I hear in Japan you will need see a palomar knot and I assume there is a reason for it. It might be ok with braid but I won't tie it personally on any other kind of line. by its nature it gets tighter and tigniter and dig into it self.

[iabass8]

3.50%

[RB 77]

I don't think the palomar knot is "the king" of knots. Really it's kind of a crappy knot IMO and is way over rated. It is maybe the most well known knot in the US. Well that or the improved clinch I guess. The only knots I tie any more and some form of slip knot. It's either a San Diego Jam or a Uni. They are both super easy to tie and come out perfectly like every time. I don't even know the last time I cut one off cause it was messed up. I hear in Japan you will need see a palomar knot and I assume there is a reason for it. It might be ok with braid but I won't tie it personally on any other kind of line. by its nature it gets tighter and tigniter and dig into it self.

 

I don't know about "crappy" but I do beleive it is "overated" to a certain extent. I also know I ONLY tie it for drop shotting. 99% of everything else gets the SD Jam knot.

 

Back to the topic at hand, I do believe a double wrap can be benificial, but is also overated to a certain extent. Stronger? Yes. That much more worth it to get me away from my regular SD Jam, not so much. Shoot, jig fisherman out this way tie a double San Diego! Not my cup of tea with the three tag ends and all.

[WRB]

Double wrapped knots being 2 strands of line going through the hook eye are not necessarily stronger for a few reasons; the double line overheats easily and overlaps easily and gets nicked by the hook eye wire end, all can result in knot failures.

IF a double wrap knot is tied correctly, lubricated and cinched down properly, under fishing conditions, it should strong enough to = 100% knot/line strength. With monofilament line, including copolymers, not fluoropolymers a properly tied single strand knot can also achieve 100% knot strength.

Small diameter lines tied to heavy wire hooks are always a problem to clinch down tight and fail easily, a good application for a snell knot, lot of factors to consider. Fluorocarbon line being the most difficult line to tie knots that yield 100% knot strength and the reason so many different knots have been introduced to solve that problem.

No panacea in knot tying.

Tom

PS, 100% knot strength means the line breaks away from the knot.

[Mike L]

IMO, Any knot that is tied correctly and deliberately will hold as it is intended too. Period...

Do some knots hold better with a different type of line over another?

Sure they do.

Experience and experimentation is always best teacher.

Mike

[corn-on-the-rob]

IMO, Any knot that is tied correctly and deliberately will hold as it is intended too. Period...

Do some knots hold better with a different type of line over another?

Sure they do.

Experience and experimentation is always best teacher.

Mike

Completely agree. If you can tie a knot correctly to the point where it will hold until a relatively high breaking strength and not unravel or break due to user error while tying, the knot itself should never be a weak point. I get worried 10x more about abrasion on the line and nicks. This also includes retying if it hasn't been retied after an outing or two just in case of fatigue.

 

A correctly tied knot will hold near the breaking strength of the line (ish). My point is that if you are breaking correctly tied knots, chances are you aren't using the right angling/landing techniques appropriate for the strength of the line you are using, aka drag, horsing fish in on light line, etc.

 

I personally use the San Diego jam knot for these reasons:

 

1. High strength with all line types

2. No slip with braid, no cutting itself with fluoro

3. extremely easy and fast, average takes <10 seconds ish to tie.

 

For splicing two lines Alberto's knot about beats them all.

[Chris186]

I don't think the palomar knot is "the king" of knots. Really it's kind of a crappy knot IMO and is way over rated. It is maybe the most well known knot in the US. Well that or the improved clinch I guess. The only knots I tie any more and some form of slip knot. It's either a San Diego Jam or a Uni. They are both super easy to tie and come out perfectly like every time. I don't even know the last time I cut one off cause it was messed up. I hear in Japan you will need see a palomar knot and I assume there is a reason for it. It might be ok with braid but I won't tie it personally on any other kind of line. by its nature it gets tighter and tigniter and dig into it self.

Idk man, the only knot I have ever used in my 25 years of fishing has been the palomar knot. I use it on every type of line, and as far back as I can remember, say 15 years or so, I have never broken off at the knot. That has to say something.

[J Francho]

The only good knots are those tied well. Practice, test, practice again until you find the knots you can tie well.