Is It Cheating?

[Surfcaster]

In my tournament experience a lot of potential shady stuff goes on.  I fish with my friend in his boat in local club tournaments but I'm competing against him.  The tournament rules allow this because they want more people fishing the tournament.  Neither one of us has won any money this year but I guarantee you when one of us does win some money there will be talk of us  pooling our fish together and splitting the money.  That accusation has been brought up in the past with other people.  In BFL tournaments I have been involved with (Piedmont and North Carolina divisions)  the top finishers and big bass winner (boater and co-angler) has to pass a lie detector test.  The Piedmont Bass Classic tournaments require a lie detector test for top finishers.  The GPS waypoints borrowed electronics issue is just another example trying to gain an edge that goes on in every tournament. Tournament fishermen have rockpiles  and brushpiles planted at various places in the lakes around here just for tournaments and those guys are hard to beat, but sometimes I outfish them.  I think there is a thread on Bass Resource about Casey Ashley planting brushpiles at Hartwell, but it was within the rules of the Tournament.  Stuff like that can rub you the wrong way but it is not cheating. 

[Montanaro]

FYI I know an fbi polygrapher with decades of experience. In the right hands they are extremely accurate and I've seen it first hand.

[flyfisher]

Polygraph examinations are par for the course as far as the rules are concerned in the tournament rules I have read.  My ex father in law was a polygraph examiner for the Navy and I asked him about the accuracy and he said that they are accurate and in his 20+ years administering them for the navy, there were less than 3 that were not accurate based on other evidence.

 

I am sure it has been said on here already but anytime you add in money to a competition, there will be people cheating.  Just look at the Cheatriots.....

[Canyon explorer]

Get over the Way Point" assumptions. I have fished tournaments for well over twenty years and have never seen the "way point" phrase in any ones Tournament rules. I have seen "No discussion or communication" with any one regarding fishing for seven days prior to tournament and  other unusual requirements. Tournament rules are written by who ever Sponsors the specific Tournament or Series e.g. the individual Clubs, Federations or Charities etc..

 

 

 

[BassOnKlinger]

Random. I just pulled up this thread curious about it's contents and realized that I think I know who you're talking about.  I was down on Guntersville a few weeks ago with a guide (I'm assuming the guide being discussed here). 

 

To clarify, are you saying the winner of the tourney hired the guide to take him out while fishing said tourney? Or did the guide actually win the tourney? 

 

As to the "cheating" accusation, I think it's all in the semantics of the rules. Does "no guides" mean no professional guides may enter the tourney? Or does it mean you can't hire one to be present with you?  Or both? 

[Logan S]

The TD also has the ability to disqualify any angler for sportsmanship issues, regardless of the polygraph.  The fact that the TD chose not to AND they passed the poly has me leaning toward the angler's side.  The email was probably sent out after the fact to show that the organization followed up on whatever claim was made.  

 

I'm guessing the anglers in question borrowed a boat, which by default included electronics.  Otherwise, how would anyone know they borrowed the guides graph?  The boat was probably Spro-wrapped and recognizable, drawing attention.  

 

At the end of the day, they still legally caught the fish and brought them to weigh-in...

[frogflogger]

You have to abide by the tourney rules and your own ethics, others will do what they will - I've witnessed too much angst over this when I fished tournaments every week - for myself I abided by their rules and realized I had no control over other folks integrity.

[Trek]

  I have many times shared waypoints with buddies and they have shared them with me. It beats saying go off woody point till you line up with the tower in the west. That's tournament fishing. You're always going to have the ringers that fish only that lake and have hidden brush piles but your also always going to have the guys with the side finders that find them. It almost always ends up with the guy that did his homework and his fish didn't move on him that finds the win. And you always have those small groups that say they cheated or have some unfair advantage or something. I hate big tournaments with a bunch of rules. No one can enforce them and it gives some people something to complain about. I say if your going to fish tournaments then find a way to win and shut up and fish. Your other competitors will respect you for it.

[scaleface]

Some people just are not  good enough to find their own fish and catch enough to win . 

[senile1]

The point has been made and is understood that having the waypoints of a guide doesn't mean one will win the tournament.  Fish won't necessarily be in the areas marked by those waypoints. 

 

However, intent ways heavily for me.  They obviously were seeking an advantage or they wouldn't have taken the waypoints.  Does that mean they cheated?  By tournament definitions, no.  Does it mean I respect their way of competing?  No, I do not.  It's like football players pretending to have been hit in the back or being tackled and then placing the ball a foot or two beyond their actual progress hoping to affect the official's spotting of the ball.  No one calls it cheating but it is unethical in my book.  Compete to the best of your ability and let the chips fall where they may.

[scaleface]

The point has been made and is understood that having the waypoints of a guide doesn't mean one will win the tournament.  Fish won't necessarily be in the areas marked by those waypoints. 

 

However, intent ways heavily for me.  They obviously were seeking an advantage or they wouldn't have taken the waypoints.  Does that mean they cheated?  By tournament definitions, no.  Does it mean I respect their way of competing?  No, I do not.  It's like football players pretending to have been hit in the back or being tackled and then placing the ball a foot or two beyond their actual progress hoping to affect the official's spotting of the ball.  No one calls it cheating but it is unethical in my book.  Compete to the best of your ability and let the chips fall where they may.

I agree . We all see things in a different light . Is losing the respect of your peers worth winning. For some yes , for most no .

[Master Bait'r]

Get over the Way Point" assumptions. I have fished tournaments for well over twenty years and have never seen the "way point" phrase in any ones Tournament rules. I have seen "No discussion or communication" with any one regarding fishing for seven days prior to tournament and  other unusual requirements. Tournament rules are written by who ever Sponsors the specific Tournament or Series e.g. the individual Clubs, Federations or Charities etc..

 

 

Any advantage you don't have is unfair when you're a sore loser though.

[Canyon explorer]

weather we like it or not having a reciprocal  network by lake, if allowed, is just as important as patterning and presentation if you want to be in contention. That would include local fishing reports, calls or visits to local tackle stores, and other people who have fished the lake recently.

[tatertester]

In my mind tournament angling often pushes the limits of fair play and common courtesy.....Lie detectors and secret waypoints, gimmi a break!...Tournament anglers using aggressive tactics when prefishing, NOT!

[KayakBasser]

Just a bit shady.

[Zach P]

I wouldn't consider this cheating. Plenty of guys use the help of guides in order to better understand the waters they live by. Only way this would ever be considered cheating is if they pulled the fish from a cage and brought them to weigh-in.

[Chris S]

Or sabotaging a competitor. 

Does this include hiding bananas in another competitors live well? 

[Chris S]

I wouldn't consider this cheating. Plenty of guys use the help of guides in order to better understand the waters they live by. Only way this would ever be considered cheating is if they pulled the fish from a cage and brought them to weigh-in.

From what I have heard a few of the 80's and late 70's Pro's made a career off guide info on lakes.Its like having a caddy for bass fishing!  

[J Francho]

Depends on their level of superstition.