Squarebills And Lost Fish

[cddan]

Had good day of fishing, kind of. Switched cranks on heavily pressured water till I found the better one. Caught one but lost five others. I'm using 1.5 and 2.5s. Since I've upgraded the rear treble to Kvd size 2s. Now I'm second guessing my switch. Won't be on the water right away so I thought I'd ask, switch front hooks out or both? Is there any other insight into my situation. They're hitting well but I keep loosing them. I'm throwing them on an ugly stick lite pro. It seems to be a fairly parabolic action and tip. Hey any help would be great. This topic has probably been discussed alot but it seems to be crankbait season here and I'm new to crankbaiting but lovin it.

[gardnerjigman]

I don't switch them out on the kvds. Almost never have one come unbuttoned. Are you maybe putting to much pressure on them to force them to the boat?

[cddan]

Fishing from the bank and I honestly thought I used too little pressure

[jyu87]

Never had such a low percentage on the KVD 1.5. They are literally a go to bait for me. It seems to me that the problem could just be the way you are bringing in the fish. Unless they are mammoths, should be easy to just bring them right to the bank without any fight. Are you taking your time bringing the fish in with the Ugly Stick lite?

[CRANKENSTIEN]

Are they coming up and throwing it or are they just pulling off.

[cddan]

They didn't jump they all pulled off. I really thought I was taking my time. If I add a larger hook on the back will it dramatically change the action?

[danno054]

Before you go bigger you might just try changing the hooks with some of the same size. You never know the hooks might have gotten damaged or be a little dull.

[cddan]

They were new hooks but perhaps your right.

[Fisher-O-men]

Dull hooks lose a lot of fish.

[Uncle Leo]

Might just be a poor hook set. I found that too much parabolic is not good for a hook set on square bills. I set the hook hard but still needed a stiffer rod, changed send corrected the problem.

[cddan]

Might just be a poor hook set. I found that too much parabolic is not good for a hook set on square bills. I set the hook hard but still needed a stiffer rod, changed send corrected the problem.

[danno054]

Did the one you get in choke on it? Ive also heard of fish pinning a crankbait against the bottom And not getting the hooks good. I know it's frustrating, but you're getting bites!!

[cddan]

Definitely agree. I was using a skeet Reese which I liked but seemed too much parabolic bend and less casting distance with smaller squarebills so I thought a med action ugly stick lite pro would be adequate and was for castability and still letting the lure work. Less parabolic than the Reese cranking rod(for larger cranks)

[cddan]

The one I caught was on the outside of the mouth. I fished that crank more with little results then switched colors and started getting more action till I unfortunately had to leave.

[cddan]

After practically going swimming to retrieve my snagged fish attracting gem.

[Cgolf]

I will throw out that a couple of years ago I had a week where I lost a ton of fish, trying different poles, drag settings, harder hook sets, adding a second or third set while retrieving, nothing helped. Then all of a sudden the issues disappeared, with no notable change by me. The worst are when you play a fish halfway to shore and they come unbuttoned when you have steady pressure on them.

Sometimes it's just fishing, don't let it get into your head and slay them next trip out.

[cddan]

I will throw out that a couple of years ago I had a week where I lost a ton of fish, trying different poles, drag settings, harder hook sets, adding a second or third set while retrieving, nothing helped. Then all of a sudden the issues disappeared, with no notable change by me. The worst are when you play a fish halfway to shore and they come unbuttoned when you have steady pressure on them.

Sometimes it's just fishing, don't let it get into your head and slay them next trip out.

[danno054]

After practically going swimming to retrieve my snagged fish attracting gem.

Gotta do what ya gotta do.

[cddan]

Too true my friend too true!

[cddan]

Sometimes it's just fishing, don't let it get into your head and slay them next trip out.

good words to hear sir

[Cgolf]

One question, did you see the fish that you lost? Right now I am dealing with the carp spawn and during many retrieves I snag big carp only to have the bait slip loose after a bit. If your not seeing what you hooked this could be a possibility.

[smalljaw67]

The one I caught was on the outside of the mouth. I fished that crank more with little results then switched colors and started getting more action till I unfortunately had to leave.

 

It wasn't the rod, it wasn't the bait, it was the fish and I've had the same thing happen just a few days ago. Here in PA the fish are beginning to spawn, but the fish haven't been eating, power tactics like square bill have been drawing strikes but the fish are hitting them with closed mouths, or what is commonly called, "pushing" and sometimes they will come back and eat but a lot of times they just leave it alone. What you had happen was the fish were mad, they were pushing it from angles and actually trying to hurt or kill it so you got some that were just skin hooked and that is why they were getting off. What I do in a case like that is I'll go to my Bomber Square "A", it is a small profile and a lot of times they will just inhale it and my last time out I got 3 on it but the rest were caught using a 3" Senko thrown on a 1/16oz weedless ball jig with a size 2 hook. The next time that happens remember to downsize your bait and then go slow, the fish are hitting out of anger so they aren't eating the bait so a lot of bites happen with closed mouths but on smaller less threatening baits, the fish will inhale it and then you'll end up hooking them.

[scaleface]

I would switch cranks . You are close to catching those fish. A different action may be all that is needed. When that happens to me I go with a less aggressive action with no rattles . 

[primetime]

Here is my theory on losing fish on crankbaits like squarebills, topwater's etc...

 

I believe too many people swap out stock hooks thinking that will help  and for lipless crankbaits I would agree that often you can go larger and it will help you and also having a larger split ring gives the fish less chances of losing fish.

 

I used to have a terrible landing percentage with any type of crankbait and I actually had a good landing rate when it came to hard jerkbaits/ripbaits but I fished with a very good angler a few years ago who watched me bend out a treble on a Pop R', lose 50% of my fish on a crankbait, and after I lost a good fish that really upset me, before I dug into my box to change out trebles and sharpen them, he simply told me I had the wrong rods for the job and to swap out all my braid for fluorocarbon for Mono when it comes to trebles....I thought about it and at first was resistant because I thought braid was  the best for horsing in fish out of the grass, but I watched him skillfully land almost all of his fish with the same amount of effort because he had the right rods and line....

 

For crankbaits, I feel that is the most important rod as it needs to be a crankin rod which is whippy and has a slow tip (especially if you are throwing braid) Obviously there are things you can do to fix this and plenty of great articles and videos on this site to explain this, and I realized that on my floating jerkbaits with trebles, I never had a hook bend, fish would slap at it and miss is like they just do, but once I hooked them rarely did they get off.....That is because I alway's used a Hand me down rod from my Brother which was a short Spinning Rod that had a soft tip and decent backbone so I could still walk the dog or cast light floaters easily, but I was not losing fish because I had a soft rod and it was Medium action, and most importantly I had a Mono that floated in 12lb test which caused me to give fish some drag and not horse them, but at the same time not smack the water every time I twitched the bait, in short it was my favorite rod for topwaters and jerkbaits because I could feel the fish, make accurate casts, and it was the right tool for the job....

 

For a cranking rod, I have a fiberglass whippy rod and one that has a slow tip but heavy action and backbone which get's loaded up with 17-20lb mono or fluoro, and I have yet to bend a stock hook ever since.

 

Most lures, especially Strike King come with good hooks, and I don't like dropping tons of money so I would replace lures with VMC trebles anyhow and that is pretty much the least expensive hook all companies use and they are plenty good imo.

 

When I read that Rebel Stock hooks are terrible, I could not disagree more since Pradco puts those hooks on most of their lures and the Rebel Pop'R for example in the normal size which is small comes with light wire #6 trebles, and yes those are smaller and you could put a #4, but if the hook is too thick, you have to set way too hard and will get less penetrations with the right rod....When a fish takes a crankbait, if he only has one treble than the key is not having braid and horsing the fish in, if you are in weeds, and I mean heavy weeds, maybe the Rebel pop'r is not the right lure for heavy weeds, if you want a fast action rod with a heavy action, let's say a flipping stick, then I would throw a Sebile Splasher instead since it comes with Owner ST-41 trebles and I know they are not bending or I use a saltwater grade topwater (Bass are not aware of the difference between the saltwater wakes vs. Freshwater wakes, only difference is the guage of hooks and size of split rings....You can horse a Bass with 3x strong trebles, and a heavy rod with heavy split rings without worry if you have the right tools.

 

I only bend hooks on lures when I use a lure designed for 6-10lb test on 20lb braid and I play the fish wrong...I have been fishing for 30 years but in the last 7 years or so in Florida I have learned why it is important to have at least 5-6 rods and different lines for applications....If I am fishing Lake Toho for a day, then I will upgrad a treble to a 2x strong or 1x strong if using heavy braid or rods, and if I want to throw a Rapala Floating minnow, I know those hooks and the lure are designed for light line, so I will use 20lb braid, maybe a leader for stretch but I find that doesn't help me, I just use a rod that is softer and I put better hooks on the 3-5 squarebills I am using for the day and test them in the water before going, changing hooks on crankbaits can mess up action, or make it better...Hope that helps.....If I am throwing the Red Fin I use a heavy action and fast tip short casting rod with braid since they are tough to cast as they are light but come with 4x strong trebles, so you will land almost every fish if you swing harder than usual, since thicker hooks need to penetrate more skin....

[primetime]

That Ugly stick Light is probably too soft and light imo if you are already changing out the hooks, I would leave the hooks on the KVD lures, Strike King does a good job with hooks, and if you are like me, I used to put the KVD trebles on many cranks but those are 2x strong I believe, so you need some backbone to get those hooks in, you also need to feel the fish before swinging....

 

But as guys said, sometimes they just get off, but I find with the right rod and line, even one treble in the fish, especially from shore, is all on me and my rod and line choice...I use spinning gear as much as possible from shore, a good 6'6" rod allows you to cast all over the place and skip baits etc..plus a medium action rod meant for cranking with some backbone really helps,  but tip needs to be slow....

 

I would make sure you are using fluoro or Mono and try to wait for the fish to take it and I know that is tough to do, I am not even sure how long I wait since with the right rod and stretch, even if I set to quickly, the hook set turns out to be fine where if I had braid it would pull the lure away....I used to lose a lot of fish and it was not just fish getting off, it was 100% my fault on how I was landing them and if it was a big fish I would get excited and force them in too quickly. That is a good rod you have, I feel the ugly sticks are great for crankbaits, but you don't need a 2x strong hook if that is what is on them, and some 1x strong are also too thick, regular VMC Inlines work fine for me and I focus on the front hook, if they are grabbing the rear hook, then I would downsize the lure, slow down maybe, try changing lures for a slower floater if they are taking it after deflection, all that stuff that seems trivial matters and I have seen  videos that Glenn has done on this site that instantly sent me to the store to get a different rod and I don't use expensive rods for the most part, but I always use good line and have my drag set properly, Strike king lures and a 1.5...Tie it on from the box and make sure you are getting a good set since most ugly sticks have a whippy action which is good once they are buttoned usually..Hope that helps, everyone fishes differently and sometimes you just learn through trial and error, or ask someone you know or visit a tackle shop and tell them your problem and show them your set up.....Most Local tackle shops want to give you the right info to help you catch fish so you come back, and most owner's of small tackle shop's know how to fish from my experiences and almost alway's help me out...