Mass Produced Rod Vs A Custom

[Jawjacker]

What an interesting discussion! I'd never really considered a custom rod build until Batson gave that great explanation. Custom rods are still way out of my price range due to being in college, though..

You might want to look at Dixie Custom Rods, btw they use batson blanks. I don't own one but might in the future. There are options out there. Good luck in college.

[Capt.Bob]

I'd be looking at an off shelf Avid before trying to spec a custom for $200. IMO, you're not getting much rod in a custom for that kind of money.

This is solid advice, you could go with an Avid blank, and go from their, but you aint buying any blank better than the Avid, for the same money,,,aint happening,,,,, and nothing is backed as well, even if custom built you keep your lifetime warranty from St. Croix!! But unless you use inferior hardware, it won't happen for less than 250 to 275 dollars. The off the shelf Avid as recommended will leave some of that 200 bucks still in your pocket!!

 

I just picked this up 4 weeks ago,,,, It is an Avid blank $85.00, (your weight and length blank would be around $95.00 for the Avid) and had 3" of extra blank added to make it absolutely personal, with $90.00 in Recoil guides, $8.00 for the tip, $5.00 hook keeper, a fuji Skeleton reel seat $10.00 with custom hand made cork to complete it, along with a custom hand made two-tone cork reel seat precision balanced to the CI4+ 1000 reel $30.00, add. building fees of $50.00 for labor, and I have an exquisitely wrapped with black thread to mach the reel with slight twin red thread wraps at the rod label on each end w hook keeper,  twin red wraps at the first rings, one red wrap on the second ring up and call it finished the rest of the rings just the black thread wraps..... $278.00 But I have it exactly the way I want it, and it is precision balanced and lighter than the factory finished rod coming in at a whopping 2.9 oz finished, I couldn't be happier. 

 

 

 

The last pic is with a Legend Elite I had built buy the same rod builder previously, in much the same manner with the same components in a heavier power and action. There is nothing better than having it your way, well worth the additional approximate 70 buck's, to me anyway's.

[Hogsticker]

Generally speaking a builder will charge more than 50 bucks unless he is a buddy or something. Most people don't build a custom with the intent to sell it later.

[Capt.Bob]

Generally speaking a builder will charge more than 50 bucks unless he is a buddy or something. Most people don't build a custom with the intent to sell it later.

You didn't add in the 30 buck's, that paid for more than just the material, he charged that for the cork work and probably had only a few bucks in material. But regardless, yes I am blessed this guy knows me from my Guide day's, he was years ago, also a guide, call it professional courtesy maybe??? Doesn't matter he has built several over the years for me, and made many repairs to the rods I used to furnish customers. Point is it is like anything in life, when you pick a custom builder it should involve a relashionship, this will make years working together to grow and certainly there will be things that you benefit from some total stranger from any skilled custom service provider,,,,,gunsmiths, rod builders, mechanics,,,, you name it. This why it is important to start with a good one, it pays dividends in later,,,,,, 

[John G]

The impression that I get from this Thread is that custom rod builders don't seem to be getting rich from building rods That is not a slap at custom rod building but from the work involved vs versus cost, it doesn't seem like there is not a very large profit margin.

[Capt.Bob]

The impression that I get from this Thread is that custom rod builders don't seem to be getting rich from building rods That is not a slap at custom rod building but from the work involved vs versus cost, it doesn't seem like there is a very large profit margin. 

Maybe not but Id say my builder had 3 to 4 hours tops of personal time involved, so about 20 bucks an hour doing what you want when you want at something you enjoy beats hell outa being on a production line or braving the weather doing skilled trades work,,, these guy's thats done it for 20 years or more can do in that time what we spend 8 or 10 hours doing, and make it perfect when their done,,,,yes they are worth what you pay,,,,, and know I don't see many living off a fairway somewhere, but man do they ever seem happy,,,,   

[Ozark_Basser]

Rod companies watch custom builders to see what is trending and what they can rip off next. I saw my first rod with micro guides at the ICRBE in 2006. Steve Gardner built this really nice rod with these teeny tiny guides. Smallest I've ever seen. It took the manufacturers about 3 years to start marketing the micro guides. Problem that the general fishing public, or the rod companies for that matter, fail to realize is micro guides are NOT for every application and that's why many hate them.

Split grips appeard in the custom market years before they were on manufactured rods. I believe Rich Forhan started that trend. Now its hard to buy a rod without a split grip.

What would be nice is if the makers of mass produced rods would learn a little fit and finish from the custom builders. Gaps in wraps, sloppy finish, poorly fitting cork, glue squeezing out between the reel seat and cork....and that was all on one single NRX!! If someone is gonna pay that kind of money for a poorly executed build, why not consider custom and get a great product for the same price!

Steve Gardner came up with micro guides? That guys been helping me out a lot on rod building.org's message board. He sent me an email for his formula for spiral wrapping too. I feel special lol.

[S Hovanec]

There is a good margain, if builders would charge what their time and work is worth and stop trying to recruit the Walmart crowd into a custom. A custom built on the same blank with same materials should NOT cost less than the factory model.

[Capt.Bob]

I don't think you could build a custom rod yourself cheaper than a factory ,,,,say Avid,,,, you would have to use some pretty cheap less than quality parts, I supply the hardware for my builds and I have as much in the guides and blank, not counting everything else, as I would buying the rod from the factory. If someone goes into a custom build thinking they are saving money over a factory rod of the same model,,,,,,they have a rude awakening!! 

[Ozark_Basser]

I don't think you could build a custom rod yourself cheaper than a factory ,,,,say Avid,,,, you would have to use some pretty cheap less than quality parts, I supply the hardware for my builds and I have as much in the guides and blank, not counting everything else, as I would buying the rod from the factory. If someone goes into a custom build thinking they are saving money over a factory rod of the same model,,,,,,they have a rude awakening!!

I disagree. I built a North Fork Composites 709 HM with Fuji micro SiC titanium frame guides. Also, it has a carbon fiber handle with a carbon fiber foregrip. It cost me around $430. If you bought the G Loomis edge series it would cost you $550, so I saved $120.

[Capt.Bob]

I disagree. I built a North Fork Composites 709 HM with Fuji micro SiC titanium frame guides. Also, it has a carbon fiber handle with a carbon fiber foregrip. It cost me around $430. If you bought the G Loomis edge series it would cost you $550, so I saved $120.

Street prices please,,,, and your time is like S Havonek said then worthless....

[Ozark_Basser]

Street prices please,,,, and your time is like S Havonek said then worthless....

Those are street prices.

[SirSnookalot]

Capt. Bob is probably right about not saving money by doing it yourself, and certainly not with a private builder.  Items bought retail in small quantity are going to cost more than items bought in volume.  Pricing is different say to a Shimano or other larger company than it would be to the average Joe.  Don't know exactly how much time it takes to make a rod, let's use 5 hours total time.  Don't a believe a factory worker assembling parts is going to earn more than maybe $15-18 an hour, much less if it's offshore.  The positive in doing it yourself is the labor of love, which is priceless. 

 

The question that each individual needs to answer, is it worth it for them to go custom, for me not really.  Having rods that have lasted 5-10 years, cast as well as anything else and do a great job handling the fish, I'm plenty satisfied.  I personally don't need a super lite or sensitivity stick, I don't fish that way too often.  I don't care much about the guides, line goes thru smooth and stays solid on the blank that's fine with me.  The majority of my rods are 2 brands (both with lifetime warranty), if they hadn't been comfortable I wouldn't have bought them in the first place.

[Ozark_Basser]

Capt. Bob is probably right about not saving money by doing it yourself

For the most part, yes. He is right. Especially for cheaper rods. If your price range is say sub 200 or maybe 150, then you are probably going to be better off buying mass produced rods. There probably is still some instances where you could save some money on cheaper mass produced rods by building something similar or exactly them same yourself though.

Take any top dollar rod by Megabass as an example. You could get a K2 blank and get your components from Matagi and build a rod that looks exactly the same and probably performs just as well while saving hundreds of dollars, and you get to customize it the way you want. Even if you hired a custom rod builder to do it for you, you'd save a lot of money.

Start up costs aren't even that bad if you just get the bare essentials such as epoxy, thread, a cardboard box, a thread bobbin, some razor blades, tape, and brushes. I personally didn't do that, but I'm sure there are people out there that build very nice rods this way.

[Batson]

Wow a lot of really good answers.. But here is our take. lol! 

Plus, a well built rod from a reputable builder should command a decent resale price over a "home brewed" build just slapped together. 

That is very very true. The custom market has unseen things that the factory rods ( Overseas ) just don't have the time for. Building on the straight edge vs the spine, how many guides and the train, balancing, putting on reel seats correctly, etc.. I can go on and on about this. Again factory rods are not bad, they are just not a custom. So yes your right DVT

 

Mike, I am interested to hear your thoughts. Can you build a decent custom for $200? All these people are saying it's not possible, but I remember reading on here a few times where you said you could. At least I think I did.

It is possible, but you have to compare apples to apples. A $200 factory rod built over seas would be comparable to our RX6 possibly our RX7 lineup with standard type components. The components if you look through our catalog, is found on numerous factory built rods. But they are only putting on standard items. Yes you can get a $200 custom made, it just depends on the person, the parts, etc.. Where you get into more money, is when you want upgraded components and a high end blank, but only want to pay $200 and not build it yourself. 

 

13 and Dobyns are the only 2 brands I've been completely 110% happy with everything. I own/owned Daiwas Kistlers st croixs Shimanos Crowders BPS quantums Shakespeares Sill Stars Pinnacles Okumas. I wouldn't go custom on workhorse rods that get beat up bad. More risk of breaking. However you can't beat custom so for me personally custom is the way to go for finesse.

Hmm.. These are overseas brands. We have both of these in-house and find it interesting that you have owned Kistlers, St Croix, etc.. But you are mixing USA made with Overseas and saying they are not as good as the 13 or Dobyns. FYI, every rod will break, but the fishing style might need to be fixed rather than finding the "one" rod. Workhorse rods are important since you need 20+ rods in your boat to compete. We have the nephew of Gerald Swindle on our prostaff team and constantly swings fish left and right into the boat. He physically abuses the rods by high sticking, boat flipping, even setting the hook like he is KVD. He fishes our Revelation REVS72m ( spinning rod converted into a casting rod and medium power = to most "factory" overseas MH ) He has caught thousands of fish and just recently broke 1 out of 18 in 2 years due to who knows what. Deep in Alabama where factory rods are big, he wins everything local ( or places in top 3 ). Warranties are one thing, but personalization and winning is another. Just depends on what you want to do? Best thing ever is learn how to build yourself and then open your world up to custom rods and building it how you want it built. 

 

Rod companies watch custom builders to see what is trending and what they can rip off next. I saw my first rod with micro guides at the ICRBE in 2006. Steve Gardner built this really nice rod with these teeny tiny guides. Smallest I've ever seen. It took the manufacturers about 3 years to start marketing the micro guides. Problem that the general fishing public, or the rod companies for that matter, fail to realize is micro guides are NOT for every application and that's why many hate them.

Split grips appeard in the custom market years before they were on manufactured rods. I believe Rich Forhan started that trend. Now its hard to buy a rod without a split grip.

What would be nice is if the makers of mass produced rods would learn a little fit and finish from the custom builders. Gaps in wraps, sloppy finish, poorly fitting cork, glue squeezing out between the reel seat and cork....and that was all on one single NRX!! If someone is gonna pay that kind of money for a poorly executed build, why not consider custom and get a great product for the same price!

This is true. Rod companies do watch custom rod builders! 

Steve Gardner invented the micro guide concept system! Hands down!! It even bleeded into mini guide system as well. The concept is what matters, and FYI Steve Gardner did this all with ALPS components. The main story is that the custom market is typically always the first to try things out. If it doesnt work, you can always go and modify it. 

 

FYI, does anyone know who invented the blank exposed real seat that everyone loves today?? Hint: Bob Batson with Pacbay when he was the president! 

Man S Hovanec, how do you know this info  

 

Agreed with everything! 

 

What an interesting discussion! I'd never really considered a custom rod build until Batson gave that great explanation. Custom rods are still way out of my price range due to being in college, though..

Its hard to understand really the behind the scenes Crutch. Factory built rods are not bad.. don't get me wrong. There is place for all rods in this arena. But I find it difficult like I said before when someone says I like this rod company because its the best. Another person says I hate it. Well its not necessarily because the rod isn't good. Its just not a right fit. I can tell you this Crutch, once you go custom, you will probably not want to buy another factory rod again. I have not heard that the opposite way unless the builder that built the custom wasn't truthful, which every industry you have your bad apples. lol

 

You might want to look at Dixie Custom Rods, btw they use batson blanks. I don't own one but might in the future. There are options out there. Good luck in college.

We have a lot of "private label" companies. Dixie is one of them and has produce many people winning on his rods! 

 

This is solid advice, you could go with an Avid blank, and go from their, but you aint buying any blank better than the Avid, for the same money,,,aint happening,,,,, and nothing is backed as well, even if custom built you keep your lifetime warranty from St. Croix!! But unless you use inferior hardware, it won't happen for less than 250 to 275 dollars. The off the shelf Avid as recommended will leave some of that 200 bucks still in your pocket!!

 

I just picked this up 4 weeks ago,,,, It is an Avid blank $85.00, (your weight and length blank would be around $95.00 for the Avid) and had 3" of extra blank added to make it absolutely personal, with $90.00 in Recoil guides, $8.00 for the tip, $5.00 hook keeper, a fuji Skeleton reel seat $10.00 with custom hand made cork to complete it, along with a custom hand made two-tone cork reel seat precision balanced to the CI4+ 1000 reel $30.00, add. building fees of $50.00 for labor, and I have an exquisitely wrapped with black thread to mach the reel with slight twin red thread wraps at the rod label on each end w hook keeper,  twin red wraps at the first rings, one red wrap on the second ring up and call it finished the rest of the rings just the black thread wraps..... $278.00 But I have it exactly the way I want it, and it is precision balanced and lighter than the factory finished rod coming in at a whopping 2.9 oz finished, I couldn't be happier. 

 

 

 

The last pic is with a Legend Elite I had built buy the same rod builder previously, in much the same manner with the same components in a heavier power and action. There is nothing better than having it your way, well worth the additional approximate 70 buck's, to me anyway's.

Very True Capt. Bob.. FYI, do you know that the head designer that worked for St Croix for 17 years is Mike Thorson? Do you also know that Mike Thorson has been our VP of Engineering for 13 years since he left St Croix? You should check out the RainShadow line if you like the St Croix blanks! Hint Hint! 

 

The impression that I get from this Thread is that custom rod builders don't seem to be getting rich from building rods That is not a slap at custom rod building but from the work involved vs versus cost, it doesn't seem like there is a very large profit margin. 

haha.. I don't think any custom rod builder is getting rich! They do it for the love of rod building and its an expression of their passion for fishing. 

 

Steve Gardner came up with micro guides? That guys been helping me out a lot on rod building.org's message board. He sent me an email for his formula for spiral wrapping too. I feel special lol.

Ya weird huh? Steve Gardner is awesome! He has a lot of different things. Check out his vibronics discs and build a rod using our carbon fiber handles. You want to feel everything, there I just told you the secret sauce! 

 

I disagree. I built a North Fork Composites 709 HM with Fuji micro SiC titanium frame guides. Also, it has a carbon fiber handle with a carbon fiber foregrip. It cost me around $430. If you bought the G Loomis edge series it would cost you $550, so I saved $120.

That is true.. and you don't have to go with everything high end. That is where people don't get yet.  Oh and by the way, it can never be: Gloomis and edge together lol 

The NRX has cork, Recoil guides with stripper guides. Split seat with split grips, but in cork. 

[S Hovanec]

Man S Hovanec, how do you know this info

I know a few people and pay attention when they talk! It helps to have a memory like an elephant too!

[dam0007]

Wow a lot of really good answers.. But here is our take. lol!

That is very very true. The custom market has unseen things that the factory rods ( Overseas ) just don't have the time for. Building on the straight edge vs the spine, how many guides and the train, balancing, putting on reel seats correctly, etc.. I can go on and on about this. Again factory rods are not bad, they are just not a custom. So yes your right DVT

It is possible, but you have to compare apples to apples. A $200 factory rod built over seas would be comparable to our RX6 possibly our RX7 lineup with standard type components. The components if you look through our catalog, is found on numerous factory built rods. But they are only putting on standard items. Yes you can get a $200 custom made, it just depends on the person, the parts, etc.. Where you get into more money, is when you want upgraded components and a high end blank, but only want to pay $200 and not build it yourself.

Hmm.. These are overseas brands. We have both of these in-house and find it interesting that you have owned Kistlers, St Croix, etc.. But you are mixing USA made with Overseas and saying they are not as good as the 13 or Dobyns. FYI, every rod will break, but the fishing style might need to be fixed rather than finding the "one" rod. Workhorse rods are important since you need 20+ rods in your boat to compete. We have the nephew of Gerald Swindle on our prostaff team and constantly swings fish left and right into the boat. He physically abuses the rods by high sticking, boat flipping, even setting the hook like he is KVD. He fishes our Revelation REVS72m ( spinning rod converted into a casting rod and medium power = to most "factory" overseas MH ) He has caught thousands of fish and just recently broke 1 out of 18 in 2 years due to who knows what. Deep in Alabama where factory rods are big, he wins everything local ( or places in top 3 ). Warranties are one thing, but personalization and winning is another. Just depends on what you want to do? Best thing ever is learn how to build yourself and then open your world up to custom rods and building it how you want it built.

This is true. Rod companies do watch custom rod builders!

Steve Gardner invented the micro guide concept system! Hands down!! It even bleeded into mini guide system as well. The concept is what matters, and FYI Steve Gardner did this all with ALPS components. The main story is that the custom market is typically always the first to try things out. If it doesnt work, you can always go and modify it.

FYI, does anyone know who invented the blank exposed real seat that everyone loves today?? Hint: Bob Batson with Pacbay when he was the president!

Man S Hovanec, how do you know this info

Agreed with everything!

Its hard to understand really the behind the scenes Crutch. Factory built rods are not bad.. don't get me wrong. There is place for all rods in this arena. But I find it difficult like I said before when someone says I like this rod company because its the best. Another person says I hate it. Well its not necessarily because the rod isn't good. Its just not a right fit. I can tell you this Crutch, once you go custom, you will probably not want to buy another factory rod again. I have not heard that the opposite way unless the builder that built the custom wasn't truthful, which every industry you have your bad apples. lol

We have a lot of "private label" companies. Dixie is one of them and has produce many people winning on his rods!

Very True Capt. Bob.. FYI, do you know that the head designer that worked for St Croix for 17 years is Mike Thorson? Do you also know that Mike Thorson has been our VP of Engineering for 13 years since he left St Croix? You should check out the RainShadow line if you like the St Croix blanks! Hint Hint!

haha.. I don't think any custom rod builder is getting rich! They do it for the love of rod building and its an expression of their passion for fishing.

Ya weird huh? Steve Gardner is awesome! He has a lot of different things. Check out his vibronics discs and build a rod using our carbon fiber handles. You want to feel everything, there I just told you the secret sauce!

That is true.. and you don't have to go with everything high end. That is where people don't get yet. Oh and by the way, it can never be: Gloomis and edge together lol

The NRX has cork, Recoil guides with stripper guides. Split seat with split grips, but in cork.

---

Just answering you response to me only. Yeah overseas rods but they work great for me. Kistlers and St Croix are great rods but not my cup of tea. Kistlers I've owners are excessively tip heavy California series and KLX. The St Croixs are solid but not as sensitive compared to the others. As far as abuse, my 13s I beat the living hell out of them and they take it. Dobyns I'm more gentle with because the price of replacing. But as far as me a finesse rod is something I'll be gentle with. I'll go custom because the odds of replacing one is slim to none unless a obvious defect in the blank. But this is just my preference. Btw my 2 main saltwater rods are St Croix avid surf 9'6 and mojo inshore 7'

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Mike, I am interested to hear your thoughts. Can you build a decent custom for $200? All these people are saying it's not possible, but I remember reading on here a few times where you said you could. At least I think I did.

It depends on what the goal is for the build and what you consider decent.  I've sold a few at that price but that doesn't refute the main point the others are making. Sometimes a client is looking for a unique gift for an angler not as concerned with absolute top end performance (which doesn't mean junk either). For example I just shipped a Mother's Day / Birthday gift on a mid modulus Purple blank that was for a regular customer. Even though it was a "budget" build. It will fish very well and be one of a kind. When it comes to say, St Croix blanks, Scott is dead-on accurate that a custom build will not be at or less than a production rod on the same blank. As for the Gloomis analogy, a better custom can be built on NFC or other blanks and may cost a little less because the Gloomis are over priced. I don't quote based what I think the person is capable of paying. I charge for components, materials and my time and it is what it is for the most part. It makes me a little nuts when mass produced rods are sold as "Custom" or custom is defined as choosing your wrap colors on a cookie cutter build. There are all kinds of business models out there and too each their own, I'm not knocking anyone but it gets more difficult to explain the benefits of "Custom Rods" when the definition is not static. 

[WPCfishing]

You all have my curiosity up.. Who can build me a 6ft 3inch heavy rod for worming and jigging? 3/8-1 or 1 1/4, I want a straight 10" cork handle and a Fugi reel seat. I also want quality guides that sit close to the blank with double legs excluding the last 3 or 4.

 

I bought a Lews magnum One. Nice rod but to long for me to use properly. I fish standing in my canoe with an outrigger on it.

[a1712]

You all have my curiosity up.. Who can build me a 6ft 3inch heavy rod for worming and jigging? 3/8-1 or 1 1/4, I want a straight 10" cork handle and a Fugi reel seat. I also want quality guides that sit close to the blank with double legs excluding the last 3 or 4.

 

I bought a Lews magnum One. Nice rod but to long for me to use properly. I fish standing in my canoe with an outrigger on it.

Look at the post above yours, DVT. Brian.

[WPCfishing]

Look at the post above yours, DVT. Brian.

I just pm'ed him.. Funny, I was on his website a week ago. I goggled worm& jig rod and his site came up in the search.

[WPCfishing]

Information emailed to Brian. I'll be speaking with him later today. Thx for opening my eye guys.. The bubble has burst!

 

This is good news for me sense I couldn't find what I wanted anywhere. It's not offered by the manufacturers. I kinda get the feeling now I'll end up with a better rod because of this. I'm thinking a black blank with red thread and all cork straight grip on a Fugi style reel seat with 3 legged guides.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Information emailed to Brian. I'll be speaking with him later today. Thx for opening my eye guys.. The bubble has burst!

 

This is good news for me sense I couldn't find what I wanted anywhere. It's not offered by the manufacturers. I kinda get the feeling now I'll end up with a better rod because of this. I'm thinking a black blank with red thread and all cork straight grip on a Fugi style reel seat with 3 legged guides.

 

Brian is A1712. My name is Mike Lawson. I look forward to talking later.

[S Hovanec]

My name is Mike Lawson.

I had a good laugh the other day when you friended me on FB. I was looking at the rod pics and recognized the one you did for Roadwarrior. I said to myself "that looks like the one DVT did, who the hell is Mike, and why is he posting pics of DVT's work". Then my brain engaged and it all clicked.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

I had a good laugh the other day when you friended me on FB. I was looking at the rod pics and recognized the one you did for Roadwarrior. I said to myself "that looks like the one DVT did, who the hell is Mike, and why is he posting pics of DVT's work". Then my brain engaged and it all clicked.

Lol. Sometimes I forget which I post as myself.