Swivel Size Help

[ib_of_the_damned]

So I'm in the process of making my own jika rigs. I have no idea about swivel sizes because I never use them. My idea was to use a swivel to connect the hook to the weight so there would be less leverage for the fish to spit the hook. 

 

What size swivel would be the best for this application? I would like the smallest and strongest that I could get, and would/should I use barrel/crane/bearing swivels?

 

Thanks in advance!

[gulfcaptain]

You don't need to worry about the strength of the swivel.  It's just connecting the split ring to the weight.  I'd get the smallest swivel you can use.  As for split rings, I'd go with a Owner Hyperwire #3.  It's a 45lb split ring. Tie straight to the split ring.  To connect the weight, find some cheap split rings that you can use for the swivel to weight connection unless you plan to use snap swivels.  Then go with the Owner Snagless snap swivels in the #10.  So you're looking at about $4 for the split rings (14 per pack) and $4 for the snaps (7 per pack) plus your hooks and weights.  Or if you decide to use cheap swivels a pack(12) of Eagle Claw crane swivels $1 and a pack of cheap Danielson SS Split rings either size 2 or 3 (2-10 per pack 3 9 per pack) for less then a dollar plus wieghts and hooks.  Hope that helped.

[ib_of_the_damned]

You don't need to worry about the strength of the swivel.  It's just connecting the split ring to the weight.  I'd get the smallest swivel you can use.  As for split rings, I'd go with a Owner Hyperwire #3.  It's a 45lb split ring. Tie straight to the split ring.  To connect the weight, find some cheap split rings that you can use for the swivel to weight connection unless you plan to use snap swivels.  Then go with the Owner Snagless snap swivels in the #10.  So you're looking at about $4 for the split rings (14 per pack) and $4 for the snaps (7 per pack) plus your hooks and weights.  Or if you decide to use cheap swivels a pack(12) of Eagle Claw crane swivels $1 and a pack of cheap Danielson SS Split rings either size 2 or 3 (2-10 per pack 3 9 per pack) for less then a dollar plus wieghts and hooks.  Hope that helped.

I forgot to add, i will be using these swivels for the weight and do not want to put a hook directly on the open eye so I can change out hooks later:

 

DECOY OPEN SWIVEL on TW JDM Terminal Tackle section

 

If I use just a split ring, the hook would be sideways, hence the swivel question. I have looked at the Owner and Spro Swivels on TW and I would purchase either one, I just dont know what size to get. As for the split rings, would the smaller size 2 work? I'm trying to go with small and strong. Thanks dude!

[gulfcaptain]

Well either you then double up on your split rings attaching the hook or get away from using a vertical line tie hook.  You are over complicating an easy rig.  Look at the Owner Jika rig set up.  It's a different hook then the regular centerpin hook.  The hook eye is horizontal, not vertical.  And if you need to change out hooks, it's a split ring, open the split ring and change them out.  The swivel you're looking at is to attach to the wieght to the open end and close.  Keep it simple.

[ib_of_the_damned]

Well either you then double up on your split rings attaching the hook or get away from using a vertical line tie hook.  You are over complicating an easy rig.  Look at the Owner Jika rig set up.  It's a different hook then the regular centerpin hook.  The hook eye is horizontal, not vertical.  And if you need to change out hooks, it's a split ring, open the split ring and change them out.  The swivel you're looking at is to attach to the wieght to the open end and close.  Keep it simple.

Gotcha, I do have some of the Jika Rigs that owner makes, I just wanted to make my own with heavier weights. I already have the open swivels and weights, I just didn't want to put a hook on that i couldn't change. But then again, with the Jika Rigs you can't change the hooks on them either... Maybe I am over thinking it... Maybe Ill just suck it up and use what I have and if I decide to make more, I'll go a different route. Thanks again man!

[bigturtle]

How does adding a swivel help reduce a fish throwing the hook? Theres same amount of leverage, if not greater, from you adding a swivel instead of a split ring. Making the weight spin doesnt accomplish anything.

[ib_of_the_damned]

How does adding a swivel help reduce a fish throwing the hook? Theres same amount of leverage, if not greater, from you adding a swivel instead of a split ring. Making the weight spin doesnt accomplish anything.

I was under the impression that swivels help with that. Looking at the new crankbaits, swimbaits, etc that have swivels, claim to reduce the fish throwing the bait/hook... Is there something to this, or am I wrong?

[bigturtle]

The reason a fish can throw a hook is due to the fact that there is a large weight (large, being relative to the hook size) attached.

 

Imagine a crankbait, with whatever hooks you want, attached. When you hook a fish, the weight of the crankbait is free to swing around, thus creating something like a pendulum. That pendulum can swing the hook out of a fish's mouth, because it can create force onto the hook, in a direction other than facing you (your line pressure). This is the cause of most hook throws, other being you didnt hook them properly. This is also why flies are so much harder for the fish to throw off, because there is no external weight attached.

This is more relevant when the fish is hooked onto the belly hook, less when its on the back hook. This is also why people dont want the fish to jump out of the water. Not only is it harder to keep a tight line, the fish can swing your lure around, and use its weight against you to throw the hook.

 

In your case, when you add a swivel, as opposed to a split ring, you are adding more weight overall, and creating more distance between the hook and the weight. When you elongate the arm of a pendulum (your hook-weight connection), it also makes the weight swing around more freely, thus increasing the chances of it adding pressure the wrong way, not to mention it looks bulkier to the fish. It also doesnt help that you arent pulling on the "weight", like in  crankbaits, so its always free to swing around.

 

Adding swivel to a crankbait can help, or worsen the situation, depending on how the swivel is added. If the swivel is buried in the crankbait (not added onto the line tie as an "upgrade"), it can help with preventing the hook from becoming lodged in a single position, and get thrown off by the twist of the split ring against the hook/body. If its added on later, it increases the distance between the hook and the body, allowing the fish to create more momentum when they are thrashing around, and can help them unhook themselves. 

[gulfcaptain]

I was under the impression that swivels help with that. Looking at the new crankbaits, swimbaits, etc that have swivels, claim to reduce the fish throwing the bait/hook... Is there something to this, or am I wrong?

You're refering to the hook hangers on some cranks being able to swing.  This helps keep the fish from being able to twist a treble against the bait giving it leverage.  But that doesn't stop them from being able to throw it.  IF you tie to the split ring that connects the hook and the weight on the Jika Rig, then when the fish jumps you still have straight pressure from the split ring to the bait.  The weight is there but you have a straight pull.  Kind of the same way you rig a top hook treble on a Hudd, when you get bit the treble is in line with the main line.  Yes you have a 4oz bait hanging down but you still have a straight pull and pressure on the hook keeping that fish pinned.  You want your hook and swivel leading to the weight on the same split ring.  The weight and hook free to move on that split ring.  This lets the weight pull the bait straight down but move with more movement, but also lets you pull straight on the hook when fighting a fish.

[ib_of_the_damned]

got it... physics...