1st attempt at rod modification

[HOIST-N-HAWGS]

I have an Avid that I wasn't sure if I wanted to sell or try and modify it by splitting the grip. After a long inner battle and going against what most where recommending(which made a lot of sense!) I decided to keep it and split the grip. After shaking off the nerves, worried about messing it up,I started the project a few days ago. Needs a few finishing touches, as well as a few coats of epoxy and she's complete. IMO not bad for my 1st attempt. Here's a few low grade pic's with my cell phone of the progress.

[HOIST-N-HAWGS]

For some reason or another I can no longer copy or paste on this site so I have no idea how to post more then 1 pic in the same box. Here's the second pic.

[islandbass]

Well Done.  Have you thought of shaving off a bit more off the upper section so that you the palm of your hand is in contact with the blank as you hold the rod?

I think when the palm is in contact with the blank is when you will get the most out in the sensitivity department. Otherwise the split grip look is purely aesthetic.

Looks great though and you have balls to do it with a decent rod. 8-)

[HOIST-N-HAWGS]

Well Done. Have you thought of shaving off a bit more off the upper section so that you the palm of your hand is in contact with the blank as you hold the rod?

I think when the palm is in contact with the blank is when you will get the most out in the sensitivity department. Otherwise the split grip look is purely aesthetic.

Looks great though and you have balls to do it with a decent rod. 8-)

You make a very valid point, but I was considering removing the foregrip as well. Though it will take a little more time to muster up the courage ;D After all I've got at least another 3 or 4 months before iceout :'(

[ernel]

Well Done. Have you thought of shaving off a bit more off the upper section so that you the palm of your hand is in contact with the blank as you hold the rod?

I think when the palm is in contact with the blank is when you will get the most out in the sensitivity department. Otherwise the split grip look is purely aesthetic.

Looks great though and you have balls to do it with a decent rod. 8-)

You make a very valid point, but I was considering removing the foregrip as well. Though it will take a little more time to muster up the courage ;D After all I've got at least another 3 or 4 months before iceout :'(

If you are using a b/c reel and palm the reel, removal of the forgrip can add more sensitivty than trimming more off the rear front grip. You can also remove a small portion of the threads from the front of the reel seat. This will place your finger(s) directly in contact with the blank as well. Just use colored epoxy or thread to build a ramp to transistion from the reel seat to the back to the blank.  

A split grip where the palm doesn't touch the blank behind the reel can be of use other than just looks. Weight reduction! Whenever you are building a rod, you can save a few grams here, and a few grams there. In doing so, you have a lighter rod that is more sensitive all togther, not to mention easier to throw all day. Frog rods and swimbait rods are prime examples. You may have 12-15 inches of cork behind the reel seat. If you can loose 9-11 inches of cork, you can change the overall weight of the rod and change the balance point for the reel seat.

Eric

[HOIST-N-HAWGS]

Well Done. Have you thought of shaving off a bit more off the upper section so that you the palm of your hand is in contact with the blank as you hold the rod?

I think when the palm is in contact with the blank is when you will get the most out in the sensitivity department. Otherwise the split grip look is purely aesthetic.

Looks great though and you have balls to do it with a decent rod. 8-)

You make a very valid point, but I was considering removing the foregrip as well. Though it will take a little more time to muster up the courage ;D After all I've got at least another 3 or 4 months before iceout :'(

If you are using a b/c reel and palm the reel, removal of the forgrip can add more sensitivty than trimming more off the rear front grip. You can also remove a small portion of the threads from the front of the reel seat. This will place your finger(s) directly in contact with the blank as well. Just use colored epoxy or thread to build a ramp to transistion from the reel seat to the back to the blank.

A split grip where the palm doesn't touch the blank behind the reel can be of use other than just looks. Weight reduction! Whenever you are building a rod, you can save a few grams here, and a few grams there. In doing so, you have a lighter rod that is more sensitive all togther, not to mention easier to throw all day. Frog rods and swimbait rods are prime examples. You may have 12-15 inches of cork behind the reel seat. If you can loose 9-11 inches of cork, you can change the overall weight of the rod and change the balance point for the reel seat.

Eric

Hey Eric, thank you for the info! I removed approimately 5 inches off a 7' M/H Avid B/C. It's a bit lighter, and I'm more then Ok with the aesthetics and the main reason I did it, other then tryig to lighten it up a bit. I was wondering if I can remove some of the threads w/o removing the foregrip? Leaving space between the forerip and the reel seat for contact w/the blank? I was also considering copying the foregrip of the new Crucials, where they have a notch cut out of the foregrip to contact the blank.

Thanks again!

Oh and BTW.... love your pic at the bottom, I'd like to do that to a few people I know with the Slammer ;D

[ernel]

If you leave the fore grip, you will only remove the threads that are showing between the front nut and the fore grip. That is only about a 1/2 inch or so. It will be pretty hard to shape that up I would think. It can be done, but extreme care will need to be used while removing the threads. With the fore grip still there, it may be harder to get a cutting tool at the correct angle to split/seam the threaded portion of the reel seat.

You have done a good job on the back portion, so I think you will do fine on the front portion as well.

Eric

[HOIST-N-HAWGS]

If you leave the fore grip, you will only remove the threads that are showing between the front nut and the fore grip. That is only about a 1/2 inch or so. It will be pretty hard to shape that up I would think. It can be done, but extreme care will need to be used while removing the threads. With the fore grip still there, it may be harder to get a cutting tool at the correct angle to split/seam the threaded portion of the reel seat.

You have done a good job on the back portion, so I think you will do fine on the front portion as well.

Eric

Once again Eric, Thank you for your advice. As I'm tooling around with different idea's (I never claimed to be a rocket scientist) I realized the Avid has an exposed blank as is, underneath the reel seat,just ahead of the trigger. Duh! Other then possibly making it a tiny bit light by removing the foregrip, I don't think I need to. I mean how much lighter can it get by removing the 3 inches of foregrip?

Thanks,

Paul

[jigga318]

hey paul taking the for grip off was very easy , i cut the cork off put a reel in cranked it down tight and marked the threads were i wanted to cut them , took the reel out and cut the threads off using a small hacksaw . i spun the rod while cutting to avoid cutting the blank. once i had it scored through pretty good all the way around i took a pair of pliers and twisted the top threads and it broke off clean, then i slid that 1/2 off thread up to just under the bottom guide and cut it with a pair of dikes , i was surprised how easy the whole thing was

                            Bill

[HOIST-N-HAWGS]

hey paul taking the for grip off was very easy , i cut the cork off put a reel in cranked it down tight and marked the threads were i wanted to cut them , took the reel out and cut the threads off using a small hacksaw . i spun the rod while cutting to avoid cutting the blank. once i had it scored through pretty good all the way around i took a pair of pliers and twisted the top threads and it broke off clean, then i slid that 1/2 off thread up to just under the bottom guide and cut it with a pair of dikes , i was surprised how easy the whole thing was

                        Bill

Welmcome aboard jigga! The invasion has begun ;D

Did you use thread to build a ramp from the blank to the reel seat threads where the cork was and then epoxy? Brandon did the same thing on a lower end rod, and think he left it as is  w/o the thread I think?

[HOIST-N-HAWGS]

So I decided to take more off the cork handle, as well as completely removing the foregrip. Very excited the about the way it's coming out. I may just have a new favorite rod! One problem though, once I removed the foregrip I noiticed the winding check above the foregrip is wrapped w/the hook keeper, but it's aluminium. Now I'm sure I'll have no problem re-wrapping the keeper once I remove the exsisting wraps, but I'm not sure how to go about removing the alum. check w/o damaging the blank. You suggestions are greatly appreciated and thank you for all the advice so far.  

[flechero]

Very, and I do mean VERY carefully use a dremel tool to cut it off.  You'll have to make 2 cuts to get it into 2 pieces.  You shouldn't have to re-wrap the keeper. I would make the point of the check my stopping point.  You'll never be able to make it all look perfect unless you completely strip it and essentially start over.

I'd use a new razor blade and cut the finish in front of the check so that when you remove each half, the finish doesn't peel with it.

As for finishing off the newly exposed area, you might just marble some epoxy.

[HOIST-N-HAWGS]

Very, and I do mean VERY carefully use a dremel tool to cut it off. You'll have to make 2 cuts to get it into 2 pieces. You shouldn't have to re-wrap the keeper. I would make the point of the check my stopping point. You'll never be able to make it all look perfect unless you completely strip it and essentially start over.

I'd use a new razor blade and cut the finish in front of the check so that when you remove each half, the finish doesn't peel with it.

As for finishing off the newly exposed area, you might just marble some epoxy.

Thanks Flech,

it's probably a good thing I misplaced my drumell. ;D I took a pair of metal snips to to the lip and the check popped off the rod like a loaded spring. Looks good and I thank you again for your help. Now I need to learn how to wrap a guide. Once complete I'll post the pic's, don't think I could have done it with eveyones help

[HOIST-N-HAWGS]

Finally complete, including my 1st guide wrap.. Thanks again for all your help!

Now on to the Crucial swimbait rod ;D

[The Rooster]

You did a classy looking job there, but what advantage would something like that be for someone like me who palms the reel while fishing a bait??  I wouldn't really make any contact with the blank of the rod with my hand other than my fingers touching the exposed blank under the reel seat that was there from the factory.  Otherwise, it 's just a lot lighter than before.  Is that the whole advantage of something like this??

[spoonplugger1]

There are a few misconceptions here about your rods as built. First a rod is a structure when built and seperating the parts and comparing them individually is a waste of time. Anyone that compares a rod without also including the reel and line used in the equation is also wasting your time. Again, it is now a singular structure that has attributes or warts depending on what you're using. Whether the weight in your hand comes from the rod or the reel, it's still weight. How it's located can be relevant, but the addition of weight in any form has a negative effect, and can reduce or remove any advantages from the rods design.

In the dynamics of rod building there isn't many things that are as useful as cork, it's lightweight and structural integrity is hard to match with any other material, and it's structure in relation to our blank's modulus makes it an amplifier.

Many people will try to show you the sensitivity of their product by holding it to their throat or some such nonsense so you can feel transmission of vibrations to your hand. You can do the same thing with a few tin cans and a length of string, I wouldn't fish with it.

The input and vibrations you should worry about are hundreds of times lower on the frequency scale. Take your rod and look at the tip oscillations after you flick your wrist, that frequency is in the tens of times a second and is where all to sensitivity and structural attributes of your rod come into play.

When that spinnerbait your slow rolling thumps how high up the frequency scale is it operating, what's the frequency of your crankbait wiggle? How high when you jig or worm drifts into that limb? How high when the bass sips your worm into his mouth, or you feel an absence of weight where there should be some?

There are a few rodbuilding publications, out there that can explain all these things and rodbuilding.org is a huge resource for finding out what's in the pipe. All the rod manufacturers you could name all subscribe to these publications as this is where the innovation lies. They are in truth about 10 years behind the times, usually when something is published even in these publications the author is 2 years or so past in innovation.

I'm sure many of you have heard about or seen casting rods that have guides starting in the top conventional position and they rotate to the bottom like a spinning rod fairly quickly. New innovation? No, the first published attributes of this design is from what I've seen 1909.

Split grips, skeletonized reelseats, abreviated foregrip or lack of, look at some of the old Series One Berkleys and the weighted butt Mitchells from the mid to late 80's, and it wasn't new then.

Metal reels were the norm, than the nylon/graphite composite reels were supposedly better. Now they say the metal reels are better, give them a few years and a good ad campaign and we'll be buying composite reels again.

All this is to get you to pick one product on the rack or display case from all the others.

Think the stuff on the rack is still on the leading edge of design, look at the revolver rods from Rich Forhan ( You've probably never heard of him.)in CA, the biggest innovator in bass rods in recent history pobably, and his design ideas are around 15 years old, your just seeing them in pieces now on the factory rods. The Vibronics rods from Steve Gardner, The Swampland Tackle rods and many other builders. These rods aren't any more expensive to own that the better grade stuff on the shelf, but the difference fishing or in your hand. You won't believe it till you see it.

[HOIST-N-HAWGS]

You did a classy looking job there, but what advantage would something like that be for someone like me who palms the reel while fishing a bait?? I wouldn't really make any contact with the blank of the rod with my hand other than my fingers touching the exposed blank under the reel seat that was there from the factory. Otherwise, it 's just a lot lighter than before. Is that the whole advantage of something like this??

There is a slight bit of noticable difference in weight when removing the cork on the handle in addition to the foregrip on the Avid, more noticable on the Crucial swimbait rod. Yet, that wasn't my personal reason for removing the cork.

#1) Multiple contact points w/blank on the Avid

#2) Comfort, both rods.

#3) Personal preference w/the spit grips over full cork.

#4) Both rods were guinue pigs for my 1st attempt at a rod build from scratch.

I had the Avid up for sale for around $70, so it was a no brainer, though the Crucial Swimbait set-up, took a little more courage. As someone pointed out, the modifications will most likely void the warranty on the rod.

I'm not to worried about the warranty. If I break an eye or guide, I can fix it myself now. If I snap one in half, I blame it on my other personalty and make him pay for it. ;D

[The Rooster]

Voided warranty on a Crucial would make both of my personalities mad.  I've never owned a rod with a lifetime warranty before.  This year coming I will have two since I am getting Compres for Christmas.  My brother in law has 7 Compre rods and has broken 2 of them.  The warranty came in handy for those.  He has such a good relationship with the shop owner that he didn't even have to pay the $15 for each rod to be sent back.  He got them replaced for free both times.

Good luck in the modifications in the future.  They do look sharp.  Hope they fish as well as they look now with the new handle shapes.  

[bowtech_182]

If the rod does break, you can use the Gold star warranty program even if the modifications caused the failure.  I am getting ready to split my Avid's grip remove the foregrip and spiral wrap it.

[HOIST-N-HAWGS]

If the rod does break, you can use the Gold star warranty program even if the modifications caused the failure. I am getting ready to split my Avid's grip remove the foregrip and spiral wrap it.

Your are correct If they determine your modifications resulted in failure, you would then use the Gold Star. If they find it was not a factor in the failure the will homor the warranty. Mind you, This is only for St Croix as far as I know. Very cool option, not to mention the length of their reply to my question. Outstanding costomer service!

Shimano's explination was a flat out"WARRANY IS VOID"! Can't say that I blame them. Though being extremely new to rod modification, I don't see how removing cork would weaken the structure unless you damaged the blank.

Hope you'll post up the job once complete.

[HOIST-N-HAWGS]

2nd work complete. Got a St Croix Premier given to me for selling a freinds Curado for him. Instantly went to a split grip. This is very addictive, yet very rewarding. I've gotten alot more comfortable doing it, as well as figuring out a few steps to save time and labor. Very proud of this one Can't wait to build one from scatch.

Thanks again for the vote of confidence and everyones help!