Super User WRB Posted April 10, 2015 Super User Posted April 10, 2015 Statements like Big Gsme stretches like a rubber band compared to,other single filament lines isn't true. I also use Big Game, not for jigs and worms all the time, I use it for crank baits because it's a good line that is inexpensive and I change crankbait line often. Big game was my go to line for swimbaits, this year I have switched to Sunline Defier Armilo Nylon with good success because it's smaller diameter is an advantage where I fish. I also use FC line for jigs and worms during the day time, at night I use 15 lb Big Game, better abrasion and knot strength, especailly tying knots at night with old eyes. Tom
Super User J Francho Posted April 10, 2015 Super User Posted April 10, 2015 "Stretch" is not linear. Big Game, Tatsu, and CXX may all have equal stretch, but the way they stretch has quite a bit of influence on the preferences we develop. 2
paleus Posted April 10, 2015 Posted April 10, 2015 I used to use 12lb big game because that's what my dad uses. I've caught plenty of fish on a t-rig with it. But, once I tried braid, there was no going back. I prefer the sensitivity of braid and not having to swing for a home run on a hookset. I use 30lb power pro with a 12lb fluoro leader for my t-rig rod.
Super User K_Mac Posted April 10, 2015 Super User Posted April 10, 2015 Red Earth your insistence on a literal reading of "it stretches like a rubberband" misses the point. Most of us understand the use of metaphor. Metaphor is a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable in order to suggest a resemblance. Read that slowly and tell me what you don't understand. That is not the speading of fallacy. It is the use of language to make a point. The idea that those of us who find BG unacceptable are brainwashed is arrogant, offensive, and unknowing. So there is no misunderstanding, I mean that literally. 1
Super User K_Mac Posted April 10, 2015 Super User Posted April 10, 2015 "Stretch" is not linear. Big Game, Tatsu, and CXX may all have equal stretch, but the way they stretch has quite a bit of influence on the preferences we develop. Exactly.
Turtle135 Posted April 10, 2015 Posted April 10, 2015 Just some more fuel for the fire. I use Trilene XT in 14 and 17 pound test. I am pretty sure the 14 pound test breaks closer to 20 pounds so to some degree I am combating the stretch inherent with monofilament by using line that tests out at 20 pounds. The 3 baitcasting setups I carry around on my kayak with Trilene XT on them handle everything from jigs to crankbaits to spinnerbaits. I do change out my line fairly frequently, at least twice a month.
Super User *Hootie Posted April 10, 2015 Super User Posted April 10, 2015 No one ever caught a fish until they invented braid and fluorocarbon. There, it's on the internet, so now it's true. Hootie 4 1
Super User J Francho Posted April 10, 2015 Super User Posted April 10, 2015 No, but we also didn't have to change our line out twice a month after it was invented. I recall getting new XT/XL on my reels every spring. And only in spring, lol. 2
Turtle135 Posted April 10, 2015 Posted April 10, 2015 No, but we also didn't have to change our line out twice a month after it was invented. I recall getting new XT/XL on my reels every spring. And only in spring, lol. I had a big smallmouth break my line on the Potomac River about 8 years ago. I knew my line (6 pound test XT) was slightly frayed by the rocks so I turned to wade back to my kayak to retie. I fired a cast in front of me and that is when she hit. Oh the humanity! Since then I have been somewhat maniacal about line abrasion.
Super User J Francho Posted April 10, 2015 Super User Posted April 10, 2015 So strip a few feet off, and retie. There's no reason to replace the whole spool.
Penguino Posted April 10, 2015 Posted April 10, 2015 fallacy. a rubberband stretches and breaks very easily, big game in general does not stretch like a rubberband. go ahead and try it for yourself. where was i uncivil? in no way, shape, or form does big game stretch like a rubberband, and that is a fact. go ahead and pull on a rubberband and pull on a piece of big game line, then tell me you disagree its a fallacy, the rubberband is going to stretch and break a lot sooner and easier than the big game... i agree. Its all relative. Me and K-Mac are using metaphors. We are talking about the elasitcitiy of the braid compared to big game Compared to braid, big game's elasticity is like a rubberband. But I digress, Big Game is easily the best "bang for your buck" line I can think of off the top of my head.
kikstand454 Posted April 10, 2015 Posted April 10, 2015 Sheesh. If you're going to use mono- then big game is a highly regarded one. Other people like other types of lines. Life goes on. ( yo zuri hybrid FTW)
Super User WRB Posted April 10, 2015 Super User Posted April 10, 2015 Back in the 60's and 70's all we had was a hand full of mono line to choose from. DuPont Stren was the most popular, Trilene XL for spinning reels and XT for bait casting reels was a big deal with 2 choices from the mfr. Garcia came out with a brown color line called Bonyl, Maxima offered a green color line. Most bass anglers would choose mono line for it's color, they performed about the same. The 80's more choices with copolymer lines that claimed higher strength, smaller diameters and less stretch. Silver Thread, P-Line, Maxima Ultra green to name a few. Trilene Big Game came out about this time as I recall, that is the time period that I started using it. 12 lb BG was the lightest # test available, BG was intended for ocean use. Today DuPont no longer makes line in the US, sold the plant to Vicious. Fluorocarbon line came out in the late 90's as filler spools for general fishing, before that it was only available as leader line. Working in the aerospace business Had the opportunity to test materials. For curiousty I would test variuos lines for knot strength, tensile strength, yield strength and break strength. All materials will yield before they break, this is what you watch for; the force going up evenly until it starts the flatten and drop off, this is the yield point. Elongation or stretch is the % the material moves. Monofilament line, nylon, Copolymer and FC lines yeild at different force and elongate or stretch about the same %. Elasticity is a material property where the material elongates without yielding or breaking; the force moves up very slowly, the material elongates a high %. A rubber band is elastic, high % of elongation without yielding, fishing line doesn't have a high % of elasticity, physically speaking. We are all susceptible to marketing, it's a neccesssary to sell products, advertise the selling points "less stretch", what does it mean? Tom 1
Hyrule Bass Posted April 10, 2015 Posted April 10, 2015 Red Earth your insistence on a literal reading of "it stretches like a rubberband" misses the point. Most of us understand the use of metaphor. Metaphor is a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable in order to suggest a resemblance. Read that slowly and tell me what you don't understand. That is not the speading of fallacy. It is the use of language to make a point. The idea that those of us who find BG unacceptable are brainwashed is arrogant, offensive, and unknowing. So there is no misunderstanding, I mean that literally. first off, i know what a metaphor is, im not stupid. but it seems youve confused metaphors and similes. metaphors dont use the words "like" or "as". the phrase "it stretches like a rubberband" is actually a simile and not a metaphor. instead of telling me to slow down while reading, perhaps you should slow down and think about what youre typing before trying to insult ones intelligence, yet you accuse me of being the uncivil one. read some of the other posts that support the idea that line stretch is not as bad as many are making it out to be. im not the only one with that opinion, just because i defend my position more staunchly doesnt mean i deserve to be singled out, attacked, and ganged up on for not buying into something that i believe not to be true... and its not that im reading it literal so much as its being grossly over-exaggerated by some and you know it. big game is not even CLOSE to stretching like a rubberband, find a better comparison to make your point, otherwise its a gross over-exaggeration and a fallacy. Just some more fuel for the fire. I use Trilene XT in 14 and 17 pound test. I am pretty sure the 14 pound test breaks closer to 20 pounds so to some degree I am combating the stretch inherent with monofilament by using line that tests out at 20 pounds. The 3 baitcasting setups I carry around on my kayak with Trilene XT on them handle everything from jigs to crankbaits to spinnerbaits. I do change out my line fairly frequently, at least twice a month. quite frankly, youre just wasting line and money by changing it twice a month, unless you do a ton of fishing and your spools are actually getting really low every couple of weeks. mono will last for years on a reel if properly stored after use... Its all relative. Me and K-Mac are using metaphors. We are talking about the elasitcitiy of the braid compared to big game Compared to braid, big game's elasticity is like a rubberband. But I digress, Big Game is easily the best "bang for your buck" line I can think of off the top of my head. as stated above in this post, youre not even using a metaphor. youre grossly over-exaggerating the whole thing. i fish mono exclusively and stretch is barely noticeable. the only time the stretch is a negative is if i get snagged and have to pull my line to free the snag or break the line. it does not take me extra hard hooksets to set a hook in a bass with mono, i see guys fishing braid who set the hook way harder than i do with mono. a bass has soft flesh, it doesnt take a whole lot to set a sharp hook in a bass. someone said their mono stretched like 12-15 feet on a hookset and i find that highly laughable for a number of reasons, what are they doing? running backwards while setting the hook to account for that much stretch? are they using a 24 foot rod? no, neither, theyre grossly over-exaggerating line stretch in mono. im speaking from my personal experience, not what someone on tv told me to sell a consumer on their sponsors product. those people on tv are often pro-fishermen, but theyre also trying to make a living by endorsing products, its up to you to draw the line on what is real and what is a product endorsement, what is fact and what is opinion, because not everything they say is based on actual fact 1
Penguino Posted April 10, 2015 Posted April 10, 2015 as stated above in this post, youre not even using a metaphor. youre grossly over-exaggerating the whole thing. i fish mono exclusively and stretch is barely noticeable. the only time the stretch is a negative is if i get snagged and have to pull my line to free the snag or break the line. it does not take me extra hard hooksets to set a hook in a bass with mono, i see guys fishing braid who set the hook way harder than i do with mono. a bass has soft flesh, it doesnt take a whole lot to set a sharp hook in a bass. someone said their mono stretched like 12-15 feet on a hookset and i find that highly laughable for a number of reasons, what are they doing? running backwards while setting the hook to account for that much stretch? are they using a 24 foot rod? no, neither, theyre grossly over-exaggerating line stretch in mono. im speaking from my personal experience, not what someone on tv told me to sell a consumer on their sponsors product. those people on tv are often pro-fishermen, but theyre also trying to make a living by endorsing products, its up to you to draw the line on what is real and what is a product endorsement, what is fact and what is opinion, because not everything they say is based on actual fact Do you fish braid often? I run braid on all my spinning setups. There is a definitely a noticeable difference in stretch between braid and mono. For bass, it nots that big of a deal. But up north, when you start dealing with the occasional bi catch of pike or pickerel you will be glad for that lack of stretch. Personally, I run copoly on all my baitcasters. It works perfectly fine, but I just have to set the hook a bit harder compared to my spinning rigs. Overall, I will concur to you that there isn't that much stretch in mono; but it definetly is noticeable and feelable when compared to braid.
Super User K_Mac Posted April 11, 2015 Super User Posted April 11, 2015 Red Earth you are a funny guy. A simile is a metaphor. It may be that stretches like a rubberband technically is a simile, but in the broader context it changes nothing. Suggesting a resemblance between Big Game and rubberbands is metaphorical. It simply makes the point that some of us don't like the line for contact baits, because of the way it feels to us. What part of that don't you understand?
Hyrule Bass Posted April 11, 2015 Posted April 11, 2015 Do you fish braid often? I run braid on all my spinning setups. There is a definitely a noticeable difference in stretch between braid and mono. For bass, it nots that big of a deal. But up north, when you start dealing with the occasional bi catch of pike or pickerel you will be glad for that lack of stretch. Personally, I run copoly on all my baitcasters. It works perfectly fine, but I just have to set the hook a bit harder compared to my spinning rigs. Overall, I will concur to you that there isn't that much stretch in mono; but it definetly is noticeable and feelable when compared to braid. youre arguing(debating) something that im not. i never said anything about mono vs braid. only thing i said about braid was i seen people set hooks with braid harder than i do using mono. also, im talking about bass fishing, thought that was pretty noticeable since i mentioned bass, never said anything about pike or pickerel. i just think theres a better comparison than rubberband is all... Red Earth you are a funny guy. A simile is a metaphor. It may be that stretches like a rubberband technically is a simile, but in the broader context it changes nothing. Suggesting a resemblance between Big Game and rubberbands is metaphorical. It simply makes the point that some of us don't like the line for contact baits, because of the way it feels to us. What part of that don't you understand? theyre not the same thing though, or their woulnt be a need for both words. they are both comparisons, but a metaphor is a more direct comparison and similes use like or as. i didnt make these literary rules up lol. so, nope, i cant call it metaphorical. also, i wasnt debating what lines people like for contact baits, i was debating that people are greatly over-exaggerating the stretch of mono.
Penguino Posted April 11, 2015 Posted April 11, 2015 youre arguing(debating) something that im not. i never said anything about mono vs braid. only thing i said about braid was i seen people set hooks with braid harder than i do using mono. also, im talking about bass fishing, thought that was pretty noticeable since i mentioned bass, never said anything about pike or pickerel. i just think theres a better comparison than rubberband is all... Dude.. you were the one who first that my simile between braid and mono was completely wrong. BTW I will then change my simile to "Compared to braid, monofilament has some more stretch"
Super User Maxximus Redneckus Posted April 11, 2015 Super User Posted April 11, 2015 All i know is before your line stretches the hook has to penetrate then your rod will bend then when all this is maxed out your line will stretch.Another thing i have noticed when u have sharp hooks 9 out of 10 times the fish is hooked already,,im not worried about thiseish that i didnt feel 75 yrds in 20 fow im concentrated on hooking up with a reliable line knot and abrasion wise,because in reality its the fish we catch that make the diff ,i could care less about the 30 i didnt feel outta site outta mind,im more excited about miss 8 pounder that i feel see and catch .there ya have it
Super User Catt Posted April 11, 2015 Super User Posted April 11, 2015 Red Earth! K_Mac! Don't make me come over there & Gibb's slap both of y'all! Everyone's personal repertoire of confusion works for them! 1
Hyrule Bass Posted April 11, 2015 Posted April 11, 2015 Dude.. you were the one who first that my simile between braid and mono was completely wrong. BTW I will then change my simile to "Compared to braid, monofilament has some more stretch" youre still talking about something im not, let it go. youre talking braid vs mono. im talking about mono itself and how people are mischaracterizing it. we are talking about two different things, there is nothing to debate here. if you want to get the last word, go ahead. i wont be responding back to it.... All i know is before your line stretches the hook has to penetrate then your rod will bend then when all this is maxed out your line will stretch.Another thing i have noticed when u have sharp hooks 9 out of 10 times the fish is hooked already,,im not worried about thiseish that i didnt feel 75 yrds in 20 fow im concentrated on hooking up with a reliable line knot and abrasion wise,because in reality its the fish we catch that make the diff ,i could care less about the 30 i didnt feel outta site outta mind,im more excited about miss 8 pounder that i feel see and catch .there ya have it i agree that the hook will be set before any line stretch comes into play, unless youre just using hooks that are dull as hell. and that the fish often hook themselves before you can even set the hook. Red Earth! K_Mac! Don't make me come over there & Gibb's slap both of y'all! Everyone's personal repertoire of confusion works for them! lol whats a gibb's slap? and at this point ive said all i can say. i just dont like when people spread what i feel is misinformation
Super User J Francho Posted April 11, 2015 Super User Posted April 11, 2015 Here's a simile. This thread is as good as dead. 4
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