Fluorocarbon Leader Questions.

[nolantitleist]

Hey guys I am having a hard time figuring out exactly how to fish with a fluorocarbon leader. Lately I have been fishing 40lb braid with a 12lb leader. I am using Spiderwire EZfluoro it is pretty cheap fluorocarbon should I upgrade the fluoro I am using? The problem that I have been having is that it has been breaking off in various ways. The other night I went out and caught 7 bass and had no problems. I went out this morning and the first bass I hooked in to jumped and shook its head and broke off about 1/4 of the way up the leader. Then the second bass bit and I went to set the hook and it broke off right below the connection to the braid. A few different times it seemed like the knot just came undone and I lost my lure. Have you guys experienced this with fluorocarbon? Any suggestions on how to get the best performance out of fluoro and have as little break-offs as possible? What kind of fluoro do you use? What kind of knot do you use to attach it to the braid and to the hook? Also what is your opinion of fluorocarbon leaders, do you use them, why or why not? Thanks!

[EmersonFish]

I use fluorocarbon leaders quite a bit. I've used many different lines, although mostly Seaguar. Never had a particular line that I thought was an issue. Don't forget that the braid, although less likely to break, is part of the knot as well. Some of it ties a better knot, some of it is slicker, etc... But again, I have not had a certain braid that I thought just didn't work for line-to-line knots.

I tie an Alberto knot. In my opinion, for tying leaders where the lines are both reasonably thin, like you are tying, there is no reason to use any other knot. It's easy to tie and works.

As for your leaders breaking, it may just be your fluoro breaking for the same reasons it would break any other time. Remember that although your main line is stronger braid, your leader is relatively light line and you have to fish it as such. Your leader will get knicked up quite a bit. Spiderwire EZfluoro may not handle abrasion well, which is true of a lot of fluoros. You might just need to retie more often. I know some people don't retie leaders often enough because it takes time, but once you get well practiced with the knot, it's not a big deal. It might also be worth investing in some better fluoro. I know it's expensive, but if you are using a spool just for leaders, it will last a long time.

The bottom line is, many people use the braid-to-fluoro leader system, and it works. There is a bit of a learning curve, but the advantages of it are worth it. I wouldn't fish spinning gear any other way.

[Steveo-1969]

I agree, maybe try a different brand of fluoro. When I first started using fluoro leaders I was using 17# Berkley Vanish (w/ 30# braid mainline) and had problems with the leader breaking on the hookset. Since then I've used 3 different brands of Seaguar (Red Label, Abrazx, Invizx) and haven't broken a leader since then.  I've always used a uni-to-uni knot with more wraps on the braid and less on the fluoro to get the knots about the same size.  A Trilene knot for attaching fluoro to the bait or hook.

[nolantitleist]

Do you guys ever use braid and fluoro on your bait caster?

[Alpha Male]

Like the others have said, and I tend to agree with them, is it could be the brand. It may be that after 7 bass there was a knock it the leader and that's why it broke. Whether you get new fluoro (if you do I would recommend invizx, I used it a lot last year and NEVER had a lost lure) stick with the spiderwire just make sure you check your line often even if you don't catch a fish. And if you catch more than say 3 you should consider just getting a new leader. That's my rule of thumb anyways.

Do you guys ever use braid and fluoro on your bait caster?

I do all the time.

[MickD]

Yes to flouro on baitcaster. (and spin) Flouro is sensitive to failing if it gets nicked or kinked, so brands worse than others. Think Vanish a few years ago, maybe better now.  I use Cablela's flouro line, usually in 15 or 20, and have no trouble.  If you want the best, get some flouro that is designed for to be leader instead of line; it will be harder and less easily damaged, and it is not a problem to be hard for leader use.

 

I've tried the Alberto, which I think is just a double Albright, but I have had too many "mystery failures" of the knot, and I have given up on it.  Obviously since others have success with it, I must be doing something wrong.  But I don't know what.  If you can get it to work it is probably the smallest line to line knot which will make it through the guides more easily than other knots.

 

I use the double uni knot which is not hard to tie reliably, but it too in time needs to be retied because of the wear and tear going through the guides.  Since braid is so slippery, and flouro so easily damaged, make sure you have at least 5 loops on each line, and be sure to lube the knot as you carefully pull it tight, alternating between pulling on the two lines and pulling on the tag ends, helping the knot to form right as it gets tighter.  At the end, give it a really good hard test pull and you will have confidence it will hold.  The double uni is a little big when you use flouro over about 20 pound as each line will have 5 thicknesses in the knot.  I would not advise trying to get any line to line knot through really small micros.  I find about 5.5 mm guides the low end of what works well with braid/flouro.

 

For slow retreives of surface lures, use mono.  It doesn't sink as fast as flouro.  Flouro, even just as a leader, can sink enough to screw up the action of most slowly retrieved surface lures.

[21farms]

i use braid with a fluoro leader almost exclusively tied with an alberto knot almost exclusively. fluorocarbon is extremely sensitive to any kinks in the line so avoid those at all costs; if i get any, i immediately cut off the fluoro right there and retie as it will break there. also, make sure to lubricate your line with some saliva before tightening your knot or you will "burn" your fluoro there and create another weak spot. fluoro can be a pain in the you-know-what but the advantages it offers make it well worth it for me...just make sure you use a good-quality fluoro (e.g., sunline sniper FC).

[21farms]

I've tried the Alberto, which I think is just a double Albright, but I have had too many "mystery failures" of the knot, and I have given up on it.  Obviously since others have success with it, I must be doing something wrong.  But I don't know what.

the single-most important thing about tying the alberto is to make sure the tag end of the line goes through the loop at the beginning of the knot in the same direction...if not, it will slip and fail almost every time.

[MickD]

Thanks for the tip.  I'll bet I have not always been tying it correctly.  I'll try it again.  I would like to make it work as it is much more streamlined than the double uni.  The thick line has only two thicknesses in the knot.

[matuka]

Any knot is only as strong as YOU tie it. There are many good knots out there for this purpose and what works for one may not work for another. I know an excellent big bass fisherman/teacher/guide who uses a blood knot. His doesn't break. Mine donated a umbrella rig and all the fixins after ten minutes, without a fish! My Alberto is better than my double uni, double surgeons etc. I tested this stuff in a very crude and boring way. Take a two foot section of braid and fluoro. Tie an Alberto with two ends and a dbl uni with the others. Now you have a loop. Now pull the mid sections of the loop till one knot breaks, (use gloves). Repeat nine times and you will have a good idea. I'd be interested to find out what your tests show.

[Frogfather]

I use similar lbs test. As others mentioned, check that you are tying the knot correctly. Also, sounds like your leader might be too long. I don't like the knot to pass through any guides. This could cause the failure./break in the line. Finally, buy better line. I save money on the Backing and/or braid but when it comes to Fluorocarbon, you get what you pay for.  For the record, I use a leader on all my rods except topwater casting and spinning. 

[reason162]

Thanks for the tip.  I'll bet I have not always been tying it correctly.  I'll try it again.  I would like to make it work as it is much more streamlined than the double uni.  The thick line has only two thicknesses in the knot.

 

 

The slimmest, strongest braid to leader knot. Could tie on a moving boat after a bit of practice. 

[desmobob]

Do you guys ever use braid and fluoro on your bait caster?

 

I use braid and a fluoro leader on most all of my bait casting and spinning rigs.  I used to use a Uni-to-Uni knot to attach the leader to the braid, but now use an Alberto.  I use Seaguar InvisX for leader material, but I check it often as it has pretty poor abrasion resistance.

 

I think success with this set-up is all about the knots.  Learn to tie the Alberto properly and I think you'll be satisfied.

 

Tight lines,

Bob

[Oregon Native]

Many fishermen....many good ideas.  Myself I use a double uni and it has been very reliable.  I also use PP almost exclusively with a Silver Thread fluro leaders.  Both casting and spinning rods have braid.  If I use 20 # leaders I generally use 30 plus in the braid.  for six through 12 I usually am using ten to fifteen braid.  I've stuck with the PP as some braids just don't seem to match up with the double uni for me.  And I like to keep it simple and successful.

Tight Lines

[aprilbass101]

Sunline FC Sniper - Leader

Pro Source - Braid

Knot - 1st "Alberto" but make sure you definitely run the tag end through the same direction you came through! Like "Kicker" explained....A must !

           2nd "Double Uni" is a very good knot for leaders as well !

Great combo for most fishing applications !

[reason162]

Uni to Uni is adequate for most applications and if you're not reeling the knot through your guides, but there are far better knots out there to connect braid to leader. 

 

Here's another "Chinese finger trap" style knot I just tried, and it seems a bit simpler than the previous one I posted. The result for either of these knots are MUCH slimmer profile than the uni, and also significantly stronger knot strength.