blackmax135 Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 I need a new cranking battery. I know nothing about batteries except that my trolling batteries need to be deepcycle. I want something that is durable and long lasting. What do I need to get?
BassnChris Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 IMHO.......the largest (power wise) battery you can get that will fit in the spot you have allocated for the starting battery.......it not only starts your big motor but runs all the other electrical things on your boat except the Trolling motor.
matuka Posted February 18, 2015 Posted February 18, 2015 I have had problems with cranking batteries. My Evinrude takes a good charge to start it. Come tourney time, with all the graphs and livewells running, I've run low on juice quite a few times. The manager at the local bass boat shop told me to switch to a group 34 deep cycle with a whole lot of cranking amps cuz he has seen this with other Rudes. Surprised me, but it works.
LunkercityVB Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 "blackmax" you should try and find what your motor actually requires to start, for instance if your motor requires 400 cold cranking amps and you put and 800cca in there its only going to pull 400, those other cranking amps are basically on standby until you are in extremely cold weather and it requires more juice to start them or your battery gets some age to it and doesnt operate at 100% anymore. Anyone that says get a deep cycle with a lot of cranking amps is def misinformed because deep cycle batteries do not have a large number of cold cranking amps. They are built for reserve capacity (run-time) not cranking, the newer AGM batteries that are most of the time triple the cost are the only batteries that are true deep-cycle and cranking in one. Theres a reason these big bass boat companies put 1 large cranking battery and 2-3 deep cycles in the new bass boats. Good luck!
Super User Jig Man Posted February 24, 2015 Super User Posted February 24, 2015 Yes not knowing anything about your motor only leaves us guessing what battery you need. 1
Super User Way2slow Posted February 24, 2015 Super User Posted February 24, 2015 I personally will not run AGM's for a couple of reasons. First, they are about 1/2 again the price of a quality flooded cell battery. They typically have much less capacity (reserve minutes) of a similar size flooded cell battery. Most engine charging system are not designed for them and can actually cause very expensive failures of the charging system. Yes, they can deliver huge cranking amps, way more than needed for your outboard, but you need more than big CA numbers for most bass boats. The reserve capacity is also a critical number you need to look at. AGMs were designed to be used in places where servicing the battery on a regular basis or in some conditions where it was not practice to use flooded cell batteries. I also run a 225 Evinrude and yes, you need a quality battery because of the fact that if the battery will not hold a good voltage when cranking, the injectors are not going to fire, and it's dang hard to start a motor that doesn't have gas going in it. For years I have run nothing but the Deka group 31 dual purpose (made by EastPenn) for my cranking battery, and will continue so. EastPenn also makes BPS AGM's. I can actually get AGM's for not much more than flooded cells. I'm parcel to Deka because for one, I think they are the best battery made, and two, I get them wholesale, But I still won't run AGMs Now there are those that think they are the greatest thing since sliced bread, and that's what all their advertising is designed to make you think. I just know enough about them to know better, and I will say they have improved over the years so the charging system you use is not as critical, but to get max life from one you still need to use a high quality charger designed for AGM's. Oh, by the way, I don't consider Walmart and othr discount batteries quality batteries. I replace the cranking batteries in my boats and vehicles every three to four yeas max. Batteries are just too cheap for the problems a weak one can cause, even though I buy the biggest baddest one I can fit in. If I was running a Walmart battery I would make that every year. My neighbor likes me though, I keep his equipment pretty well furnished with batteries where he runs them when I swap them out.
LunkercityVB Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 "way2slow" im glad you are one of these people that do enough research about your product before you buy( like it sounds like you do) however you are Extremely wrong on the Reserve MINS WITH AGMs. They are just numbers. Yes many people do think they are the latest and greatest batteries and I'm not one of them (they havent been around long enough to know if they are better than the lead acid product) however I do run them in my boat, and here are a couple reasons why. The particular AGMs im running use 99.9% pure lead, not recycled lead which all SLA products are now. Agm's also have a faster recharge rate and a slower discharge rate hense the reason you always see less reserve capacity mins on an AGM battery, however its been proven that they can last up to 4x the runtime and that was enough for me. The amount of time the batteries stay down is cut in half when being charged and that in itself is better for the battery. The more time a battery stays in a discharged state the faster it begins to sulfate. And most standard charges will charge AGM batteries correctly however not if they are paired with a wet battery. I also like you get a discount (free) on my batteries so I'm always changing them out whenever a new product comes out. But its always Interstates because we own the one in our area, but I also check and replace hundreds of thousands of batteries a year and Interstate in this application has always been top dog. East Penn are great batteries as well, so nothing bad said about them. Different strokes for different folks.
Super User Way2slow Posted February 24, 2015 Super User Posted February 24, 2015 What ever turns your crank. There's always someone with a better answer, and I've never claimed to be a guru, that's why I usually shy away from a lot of topics, batteries being one. I am totally dumbfounded to find out that the reserve minutes on a battery means absolutely nothing, they are just numbers. Not sure what happened to manufactures having to test and prove the RC capacity before they put it on the lable, because most want that (just a number) to be as high as they can make it. That's why see some use less than 25 amps to test, which is considered the standard by most. Anyway, I'm glad you have your s***t together and can give them the facts. However, I hope you don't mind if I have reservations about those facts. Just to make sure this does not make this topic go in the wrong direction if I ruffled feathers, I'm Out of it. By the way, I don't think optima agrees with you euther.http://www.optimabatteries.com/en-us/experience/power-source/battery-reserve-capacity/
blackmax135 Posted February 25, 2015 Author Posted February 25, 2015 "blackmax" you should try and find what your motor actually requires to start, for instance if your motor requires 400 cold cranking amps and you put and 800cca in there its only going to pull 400, those other cranking amps are basically on standby until you are in extremely cold weather and it requires more juice to start them or your battery gets some age to it and doesnt operate at 100% anymore. Anyone that says get a deep cycle with a lot of cranking amps is def misinformed because deep cycle batteries do not have a large number of cold cranking amps. They are built for reserve capacity (run-time) not cranking, the newer AGM batteries that are most of the time triple the cost are the only batteries that are true deep-cycle and cranking in one. Theres a reason these big bass boat companies put 1 large cranking battery and 2-3 deep cycles in the new bass boats. Good luck! Yes not knowing anything about your motor only leaves us guessing what battery you need. I don't have a clue how to find out what kind of battery my motors requires. Its a 135 mercury. The coldest it gets were im at is 20 degrees but maybe 3 days out of the year.
blackmax135 Posted February 25, 2015 Author Posted February 25, 2015 What brand do you guys suggest and sizes and cranking amps.
Solution LunkercityVB Posted February 25, 2015 Solution Posted February 25, 2015 "Blackmax" this is for you man since someone just sent me something about Optima Batteries which have one of the highest warranty rates of any battery out there. Believe me I've sold them for over 15 years, not worth the money. If you want my personal opinion, go ahead and go with a 800 cold cranking amp battery (whichever brand you choose) The cost difference between something in the 500-600 range and the 800 is usually less than 10$ and for the price of a lunch you know you will have more than enough. It's gonna be an overkill but say 2,3,4 years down the road when that battery on its best day is only operating at maybe 60-70% it should still be enough to start your motor. Your brand you choose is your choice, I choose interstate however there are other companies out there that make good batteries. Just pick one you can afford with the best warranty and enjoy the time on the water. These forums are here for people to ask questions and get answers that someone else might know more than they do. I know that's why I'm here.
blackmax135 Posted February 25, 2015 Author Posted February 25, 2015 "Blackmax" this is for you man since someone just sent me something about Optima Batteries which have one of the highest warranty rates of any battery out there. Believe me I've sold them for over 15 years, not worth the money. If you want my personal opinion, go ahead and go with a 800 cold cranking amp battery (whichever brand you choose) The cost difference between something in the 500-600 range and the 800 is usually less than 10$ and for the price of a lunch you know you will have more than enough. It's gonna be an overkill but say 2,3,4 years down the road when that battery on its best day is only operating at maybe 60-70% it should still be enough to start your motor. Your brand you choose is your choice, I choose interstate however there are other companies out there that make good batteries. Just pick one you can afford with the best warranty and enjoy the time on the water. These forums are here for people to ask questions and get answers that someone else might know more than they do. I know that's why I'm here. Thanks man. Couldn't have gotten any better help
Super User Way2slow Posted February 25, 2015 Super User Posted February 25, 2015 Yep, nice thing about these forums, you always have someone that "THINKS" they know it all, and give their expert advise, Even though their advise is totally opposite of what the manufactors and engineers say. We are so blessed to now have the guru of battery gurus to rely on, that's what he is here for. The Optima link was not to show the OP, it was for what they had to say about R C. That are just numbers that don't mean anything. Ok, I lied, I made one more post. This is why I try to stay out of battery questions, I keep getting myself in trouble, which I guess, I do that with motors, boats , props, electrical, you name it. This old dumb redneck should know better by now.
LunkercityVB Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 "way2slow" you are obviously one of these "old know it all rednecks" that cant handle the fact that someone else knows more than you do about something, I simply responded to this kids question for the very reason that he wanted some expert advice about something he obviously wasnt sure about. And I call myself an expert because its what i do for a living and have since i was 10 yrs old learning from my father whos been selling batteries for over 40 yrs. You sir are simply one of these people that refuses to let someone else get good info without chiming in about something that youve read on a forum or something youve experienced a handful of times in your life. "blackmax" got his answer and leave it at that. I dont get on here and argue with people about subjects im not an expert on unless I state "this is just my opinion" and neither should you.
Super User Way2slow Posted February 26, 2015 Super User Posted February 26, 2015 I'm not trying to make this another P contest about who knows more than who. I'm not your average Jo blow when it comes to batteries either. When you come in and start posting your "KNOWLEDGE" that is totally wrong and against what everybody , manufactors and engineers, the real experts have to say, then I do have a tendency to question it. I called a friend of mine who knows a little about batteries, I guess he's does since he's the lead engineer for US Battery, just to make sure something magical hasn't happened. To try keeping this as civil as possible, I'm not posting his exact words for what he said. I actually had him post on here a few years ago to clarify wrong info another self proclaimed expert was trying to give. Also you Bragg about the faster, actually up to five times quicker recovery rate AGM's have over flooded cell batteries, that is true, and sounds great from a salesman, which most of your post was your sales pitch. However, how many boat owners do you think would have a large enough charger to take advantage of that. The battery can only charge as fast as a charger will feed it. I don't know of many boaters that have 50 amp per bank chargers they use to charge their boat batteries. Most are less than 10 amps per bank, those that know a little about how they work will have a 10 -15 amp per bank. Now, it might transfer that energy faster because of its lower internal resistance, but it can still only do it at the rate the charger is going to be able to supply it.. So for charging purposes, what good does it do to say you have a C5 battery when the max your charger will charge it at is C1-C2. So it's still going to take just as long to charge an AGM as a flooded cell if both are at the same AH rating and discharge level. Unless you sell some miricale batteries or sprinkle magic dust on yours. Battery power is very finite, not infinite. They can only produce so many watts of power. Does not, matter how they are constructed. As they produce power, it reduces the amount of power left in them to produce, plain and simple. AGM's do not have some sort Perpetual design that will let them produce power and not discharge, like you seem to claim they can. If it could produce more power over a longer period of time, it "would" have a higher a higher RC rating. I used to laugh about what a DJ on the radio in that area said about the drivers there. Something like, "the driver in front of you was nuts, and the one behind you was an idiot. I was station at Langley AFB for six years, found a lot of truth in that statement.
blackmax135 Posted February 27, 2015 Author Posted February 27, 2015 "way2slow" you are obviously one of these "old know it all rednecks" that cant handle the fact that someone else knows more than you do about something, I simply responded to this kids question for the very reason that he wanted some expert advice about something he obviously wasnt sure about. And I call myself an expert because its what i do for a living and have since i was 10 yrs old learning from my father whos been selling batteries for over 40 yrs. You sir are simply one of these people that refuses to let someone else get good info without chiming in about something that youve read on a forum or something youve experienced a handful of times in your life. "blackmax" got his answer and leave it at that. I dont get on here and argue with people about subjects im not an expert on unless I state "this is just my opinion" and neither should you. I'm not trying to make this another P contest about who knows more than who. I'm not your average Jo blow when it comes to batteries either. When you come in and start posting your "KNOWLEDGE" that is totally wrong and against what everybody , manufactors and engineers, the real experts have to say, then I do have a tendency to question it. I called a friend of mine who knows a little about batteries, I guess he's does since he's the lead engineer for US Battery, just to make sure something magical hasn't happened. To try keeping this as civil as possible, I'm not posting his exact words for what he said. I actually had him post on here a few years ago to clarify wrong info another self proclaimed expert was trying to give. Also you Bragg about the faster, actually up to five times quicker recovery rate AGM's have over flooded cell batteries, that is true, and sounds great from a salesman, which most of your post was your sales pitch. However, how many boat owners do you think would have a large enough charger to take advantage of that. The battery can only charge as fast as a charger will feed it. I don't know of many boaters that have 50 amp per bank chargers they use to charge their boat batteries. Most are less than 10 amps per bank, those that know a little about how they work will have a 10 -15 amp per bank. Now, it might transfer that energy faster because of its lower internal resistance, but it can still only do it at the rate the charger is going to be able to supply it.. So for charging purposes, what good does it do to say you have a C5 battery when the max your charger will charge it at is C1-C2. So it's still going to take just as long to charge an AGM as a flooded cell if both are at the same AH rating and discharge level. Unless you sell some miricale batteries or sprinkle magic dust on yours. Battery power is very finite, not infinite. They can only produce so many watts of power. Does not, matter how they are constructed. As they produce power, it reduces the amount of power left in them to produce, plain and simple. AGM's do not have some sort Perpetual design that will let them produce power and not discharge, like you seem to claim they can. If it could produce more power over a longer period of time, it "would" have a higher a higher RC rating. I used to laugh about what a DJ on the radio in that area said about the drivers there. Something like, "the driver in front of you was nuts, and the one behind you was an idiot. I was station at Langley AFB for six years, found a lot of truth in that statement. I'm scared to even go look for a battery now. 1
LunkercityVB Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 "Way2slow" this is what amazes me about people like you, you come on here claiming to correct someone's words "that are totally wrong" and you are getting your info from a friend or something you read from a manufactures spec sheet. You should've just left with your last comment about erasing your posts and keeping your mouth shut. It really doesn't require a whole lot of effort, but i guess for someone like you (mr 1900+ posts of mostly negative *****) that's spends a good portion of their day TROLLING around these forums claiming you know everything and everyone else on here that's giving advice is wrong, that would be life threatening for you. I know US Battery very well for starters, they are a very small manufacture that deals more with a specialty product ie, mostly golfcart, scrubber and a few marine batteries. We actually used to sell them a few years back for probably over 10-15 years. They are a lot like Trojan which I'm sure you've also heard of. And these engineers and other manufactures you speak of are the very people WE work with day in and day out. Ever heard of Johnson Controls? I'm not a salesman in some retail store trying to convince everyone on here to buy interstate, I could careless actually. I sleep just fine every night knowing what's in my boat works just fine but as far as the next guys problems it really has no affect on me, however when someone asks I'm gonna tell them what's the best. (And no that's not my opinion) If you're gonna do a little more research to come up with some long drawn out post about RC or how AGMs just suck, save it. You're just making yourself look silly.
Super User Way2slow Posted February 27, 2015 Super User Posted February 27, 2015 Sorry BlakMax, because I diagree with some of his comments, especially that RC numbers mean nothing, but then he did just say he knew more about that than the manufactures, I don't disagree with most of his recommendations he gave you. I would never recommend a true deep cycle for a cranking battery, no more than I would recommend a straight cranking battery for a bass boat. Based on the amount of electronics, pumps etc, and how much time you spend fishing versus running and gunning, I would go with a group 27 or 31 Dual Purpose. I don't diagree that Interstate is a high quality battery, so are the DieHards and a few others I prefer Deka's. Difference of opinions is why there are so many flavors of ice cream. I also think Optima would be a poor choice, as well as most spiral wound's. I find the stack cells give a less problems. It's very easy to buy a battery to small in an effort to save a dollar, but it's hard to buy one to large as long as you have the space and don't miind the weight. The higher the capacity, the more the lead, lead is heavy and lead is expensive. So don't let two dips***s that have fundamental problems about the facts muddy the water on you getting a good battery. I'm also not saying a AGM Is not a good battery, for what it was designed for. I just gave my reasons for not using them in MY boat.
plumworm Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 This is fun. I use Wally World batteries and they last 2-3 years and then I go spend another $75 for each. Never, ever ran out of juice while I was fishing on the 24 volt TM system or my crank battery which is powering my graphs. I don't need the best, just what works for me. I do make it a point to make sure all of my batteries are fully recharged after every outing.
Super User 00 mod Posted February 27, 2015 Super User Posted February 27, 2015 Everyone has opinions.....as far as this topic we are done. Jeff 3
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