Super User Catt Posted January 31, 2015 Super User Posted January 31, 2015 Even with you Livewell treatments, and other Precautions, its been scientifically tested by InFisherman. That tournament live well fish have a delayed mortality (5 days later) upwards of 50% And Texas Parks & Wildlife tracks every tournament every year and they show single digits Quote
Super User HoosierHawgs Posted January 31, 2015 Author Super User Posted January 31, 2015 And Texas Parks & Wildlife tracks every tournament every year and they show single digits What do you mean? Single digit mortality rates? Quote
Super User Catt Posted January 31, 2015 Super User Posted January 31, 2015 What do you mean? Single digit mortality rates? Yelp TP&W track tournaments results, double digit bass, mortatilty rates, & effects on bedding bass. The Toyoto ShareLunker Program, established in 1986 to promote proper handling of 10 pound plus bass, catch & release of 10 pound plus bass, & to selective breed trophy (13# +) largemouth bass. Quote
Super User HoosierHawgs Posted January 31, 2015 Author Super User Posted January 31, 2015 Yelp TP&W track tournaments results, double digit bass, mortatilty rates, & effects on bedding bass. The Toyoto ShareLunker Program, established in 1986 to promote proper handling of 10 pound plus bass, catch & release of 10 pound plus bass, & to selective breed trophy (13# +) largemouth bass. Interesting.. I have heard of the ShareALunker Program before. Is it initial or delayed mortality rates? Quote
Super User Catt Posted January 31, 2015 Super User Posted January 31, 2015 Interesting.. I have heard of the ShareALunker Program before. Is it initial or delayed mortality rates? Both Y'all seriously need to research updated infomation on this subject. Quote
Super User K_Mac Posted January 31, 2015 Super User Posted January 31, 2015 Catt your data may be correct, although there are many other studies showing much higher mortality rates. What is absolutely unquestionable is that some fish will die as a result of sport fishing. Those of us who fish a lot and catch a disproportionate number of bass compared to average fishermen, have accept that no matter how careful we are returning fish to the water unharmed, some fish will die as a result of our actions. It is not a rare anomaly; it is a predictable and unavoidable part of fishing. I do believe that catch and release, done properly, is vital to maintaining healthy fishing systems. I am not convinced that sight fishing for spawning females has any more consequences than other accepted practices. 1 Quote
Super User Catt Posted January 31, 2015 Super User Posted January 31, 2015 Right on K_Mac There is a percentage that will die regardless of when it is caught. We as angles need to minimize that percentage through education in proper handling techniques. 1 Quote
mjseverson24 Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 I can understand your desire to distance yourself from the term, but the fact remains that when you consider all of the bass fishermen involved in bass fishing, it is indeed a Blood Sport. Even with all of the protections you try to provide, no one can insure 100% survivability.  we can never insure 100% survivability in any activity that we do as humans, there are always probabilities that bad things can happen. such as golf being struck by lightning or by a stray ball, or basketball and football getting killed due to an injury obtained while on the court or field. Do I think that all of my fish survive after a tournament??? No and I feel bad about that. that is why supporting the DNR programs that help maintain healthy ecosystems is an important part of being a fisherman...  Mitch Quote
mjseverson24 Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 Even with you Livewell treatments, and other Precautions, its been scientifically tested by InFisherman. That tournament live well fish have a delayed mortality (5 days later) upwards of 50% What??? i think i know what you are talking about, the texas study on tournament fish... well that is texas, not MN. where i live the conditions are quite different. i believe the study showed water temperature is the key feature in mortality rating (along with O2 content). MN water temps are quite a bit lower on average than Tx lakes and rivers. also having a smaller limit which is likely to occur in MN will help in mortality rates.  Mitch 1 Quote
corn-on-the-rob Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 In my opinion I think this comes down to an issue of perceived impact vs actual impact. If I am not mistaken, the 5 bass limit that is enforced on most fisheries is implemented based on data from population models.  Hypothetically, lets say I went out last year then caught and harvested (kept and ate) 5 bass all year, or 10, or 30, or 50. There is a good chance that regardless of whether I harvested 0 or 50 yearly the population model would be unchanged or if it had changed, it would be hard to correlate my harvesting to the actual change.  I remove a female from a bed, she dies, whoops. Another female swoops in on that nest and deposited into 4 nests instead of 3 because there was another available.  I harvested 100 bass, more fry survive on the next spawn.  We have a BR tournament we remove 200 bass from beds, meanwhile 10,000 other bass are still on their beds untouched.  Nature has a way of course correcting and as long as something isn't extremely excessive, the actual impact is likely negligible.  Now that that has been said, removing 200 bass from beds with only 400 bass in the lake, sure you might encounter a problem. 2 Quote
hawghound Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 I don't have any facts about it's effect, but I choose not to fish beds. I admit I have done it but It didn't seem much like sport to me. It also seems logical to me that pulling a fish off her nest will add more stress on a fish that is about to undergo major stress in the process of laying eggs. Â To take it one step further, I would like to see tournaments banned during spawn. Â Just sayin'. 1 Quote
tatertester Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 I agree you 100% Hawg......Bass fishing , no matter the lake or river, is a sport , a challenge as it is. Where is the bite today?,shallow weed cover?, the first breakline? or maybe the out side weed edge?.....What technique will work?, topwater, crankbaits, spinnerbaits, plastics?.......Nah , lets just go fish the beds where the fish are sitting ducks and won't run away.....What a challenge! ,and, some statistics say we are not hurting the fishery....Good enuff reason to me to hold my head high while I drag as many off those beds as I can.....Did you see the size of that one?..........Come on people , even if it doesn't hurt the overall bass population, it seems to me to be unsavory and unneccesary. Quote
Logan S Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 Come on people , even if it doesn't hurt the overall bass population, it seems to me to be unsavory and unneccesary. No one is forcing you to do it, so don't. Â Lot of people looking down their nose on other fisherman for practicing a method that is 100% legal. Â Having an opinion is fine, but trying to force it on others isn't a polite thing to do . Â I put a lot more faith in DNR biologists doing their job then I do on some fisherman's feelings....In other words, I trust that if it were truly a threat to the fishery the DNR would impose limitations. Â BTW, some states actually do this for certain waters. Â We have certain areas on the Potomac that are completely off-limits to fishing (even C&R is prohibited) during spawning season. Â Â In my opinion/experience, those who say it's too easy typically don't have much real experience actually doing it. Â SOME fish can be easy to catch, but far more prove to be very difficult to catch...Especially the bigger ones. Â I have won and placed in tournaments by exclusively sight fishing and can tell you it's not an easy feat by any stretch.... Â If you say it's not sporting to sight fish...Do you also not cast to cruising fish should you see them? Â Do you not cast to breaking fish? Â If you see a fish break/boil while fishing something else do you not make a cast in the general direction? Â I mean, you can see them so it's not sporting right? Â 7 Quote
Super User K_Mac Posted February 2, 2015 Super User Posted February 2, 2015 Tatertester the big girls are always going to be more vulnerable during the spawn. If I know the staging areas where they move up to feed before spawning and hammer them there, is that "unsavory"? If I pound spawning flats in water too stained to sight fish have I violated your code? Maybe fishing at all in the spring is simply too distasteful? We all know that mortality rates go way up during hot weather. Maybe fishing in the heat of summer is unpalatable? My point is, if it is legal and doesn't hurt the fishery it's all good. 1 Quote
Super User F14A-B Posted February 2, 2015 Super User Posted February 2, 2015 It ain't much different catching females staging right before they move on the beds. I prefer catching them that way! They eat baits better... I have bed fish as well, I've spent hours on a fish.. It's anything but easy, I don't believe it hurts or is immoral. 2 Quote
Super User SirSnookalot Posted February 2, 2015 Super User Posted February 2, 2015 I don't find casting to one spot over and over to catch a fish is easy, it can take a lot time. Â I don't care to do it, the reasons of morality don't enter into it, I enjoy my fishing using different tactics. 1 Quote
Super User Lund Explorer Posted February 2, 2015 Super User Posted February 2, 2015 I agree you 100% Hawg......Bass fishing , no matter the lake or river, is a sport , a challenge as it is. Where is the bite today?,shallow weed cover?, the first breakline? or maybe the out side weed edge?.....What technique will work?, topwater, crankbaits, spinnerbaits, plastics?.......Nah , lets just go fish the beds where the fish are sitting ducks and won't run away.....What a challenge! ,and, some statistics say we are not hurting the fishery....Good enuff reason to me to hold my head high while I drag as many off those beds as I can.....Did you see the size of that one?..........Come on people , even if it doesn't hurt the overall bass population, it seems to me to be unsavory and unneccesary.  Speaking of challenges, maybe we should consider the need for 60lb braided line to drag in a 5lb fish.   What about the use of (gasp) live bait. I won't fault anyone who finds that fishing beds as being not enough of a challenge for themselves, but I will point out the humor in trying to shame others to adopt that same point of view. No one person knows exactly how everyone else should enjoy the sport.  There is one gentleman who is a member that has posted pictures of some truly impressive fish here, and I know many of those fish were caught using several nightcrawlers stuck on the same hook and thrown on a bed.   I'm sure he isn't alone with a PB that was caught using a method others look down their noses at.  I guess the only way to proceed is to go all the way down that slippery slope to where we don't celebrate anyone else's accomplishments, or to accept the fact that not everyone marches to your chosen drummer! 3 Quote
Super User HoosierHawgs Posted February 2, 2015 Author Super User Posted February 2, 2015 Speaking of challenges, maybe we should consider the need for 60lb braided line to drag in a 5lb fish. What about the use of (gasp) live bait. I won't fault anyone who finds that fishing beds as being not enough of a challenge for themselves, but I will point out the humor in trying to shame others to adopt that same point of view. No one person knows exactly how everyone else should enjoy the sport. There is one gentleman who is a member that has posted pictures of some truly impressive fish here, and I know many of those fish were caught using several nightcrawlers stuck on the same hook and thrown on a bed. I'm sure he isn't alone with a PB that was caught using a method others look down their noses at. I guess the only way to proceed is to go all the way down that slippery slope to where we don't celebrate anyone else's accomplishments, or to accept the fact that not everyone marches to your chosen drummer! I really don't find anything wrong with fishing live bait. As long as you aren't dumping your unused bait ir containers in or around the water, I'm ok. I just fish with lures mostly, because that's what I enjoy, but I know that my uncle has caught his personal best, and many other great fish on Rodman with a live shiner, and i don't find a problem with it. Honestly, I actually enjoy it as well. Quote
Suspendingjerk Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 I don't have any facts about it's effect, but I choose not to fish beds. I admit I have done it but It didn't seem much like sport to me. It also seems logical to me that pulling a fish off her nest will add more stress on a fish that is about to undergo major stress in the process of laying eggs. Â To take it one step further, I would like to see tournaments banned during spawn. Â Just sayin'. It's as much sport as fishing any other spot/pattern. I agree with someone above me who said that those of you who say it's not much sport have not had much experience in doing it. It seems you all believe the fish bite whatever you throw onto the nest without hesitation. Which isn't true. Furthermore, bed fishing is fishing a pattern like you would other times of the year. Dog days of summer? Move deep and fish ledges. Pre spawn? Fish staging areas. Spawn? Fish beds. 1 Quote
RSM789 Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 ...If you say it's not sporting to sight fish...Do you also not cast to cruising fish should you see them?  Do you not cast to breaking fish?  If you see a fish break/boil while fishing something else do you not make a cast in the general direction?  I mean, you can see them so it's not sporting right?   I don't believe that is a valid comparison.  A spawning fish will stay on or return to a bed even if it sees an angler on a boat casting towards it. During spawning, there is a biological urge to do something it wouldn't normally do (stay in a location even though it has identified a potential threat) the rest of the year.  Cruising, breaking or boiling fish will not react the same way. If cruising fish spot you, they scatter and will not automatically return the same area minutes later. Get to close to boiling fish, the school will sound and maybe even disperse.  I'm not saying this to discourage anyone from bed fishing, but at the same time, don't deceive yourself that bass during the spawn aren't more vulnerable. 1 Quote
Super User scaleface Posted February 2, 2015 Super User Posted February 2, 2015 I think post spawn fish are more vulnerable than spawning fish , which I find difficult to catch. My best  days have been running points after the spawn . 1 Quote
RSM789 Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 If you get as close to a post spawn fish as many do to bedding fish, his natural reaction will be to swim away. Bedding fish are locked into staying in an area, a trait that does not occur the rest of the year. Quote
Super User Catt Posted February 2, 2015 Super User Posted February 2, 2015 The female does not stay on the nest long before she moves to another nest, & then post spawn. The male stays on the nest through out the spawn 2 Quote
hawghound Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 The question for me is not will it hurt the production of the fry but how it affects the adult on the nest.  She is already stressed, and more stress has to affect her health, doesn't it?  And for the record, I DO NOT fish during the spawn.  As I said earlier, I have done it. One year a buddy of mine introduced the idea to me.  Yes, it was fun at first.  But I tell ya, every time we threw a bait in front of those fish they grabbed em.  EVERY TIME! Just wasn't sport to me.  Yes, you can defend your opinion by calling it just another pattern, but I for one, will not be there. Someone suggested lobbying your state to ban fishing during spawn, I'm okay with that. And yes, we should refuse to buy from any company, or support any organization, that openly supports things we don't agree with. I'm not a preacher either, but we all have a right to our opinions.  I can't help it if some of you are wrong.  (meant to be funny). Quote
Super User Catt Posted February 3, 2015 Super User Posted February 3, 2015 Seriously y'all need to read the research, every problem y'all are bringing up is shot down. If y'all don't like it that's fine but it is attached to nothing but feelings not fact. 4 Quote
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