Bed Fishing: Friend Or Foe

[SirSnookalot]

Brent if you harvest bass to the limit that are 15" or greater, your chances of catching 4 pounders will not go up. Slot limits are a far better approach to managing fish populations and increasing numbers of bigger fish.

I agree, I'll let the professionals of the DNR decide on what size fish is legal and if there should be a slot.  If for no other reason than common sense, the big breeders should be released.  Some may argue the gene factor or more eggs layed.

I'd be more concerned keeping pollutants out of the water than bed fishing or under or over harvesting a fishery.

[Lund Explorer]

Well, let's look at a very specific example: Lake Fork in Texas

 

Although this lake produces the biggest number of bass in the Texas Lunker Program,

the fishing pressure is simply enormous, especially during the spawn. Bed fishing is a

HUGE part of the attraction for this lake. During this period literally thousands of fishermen

pound this water, seven days a week. There appears to be no impact on the fishery.

 

Disclaimer: I don't ever intentionally fish for bedding bass, but that's just me. Other guys

really enjoy the challenge and I can appreciate that, I have watched them play!

 

LOL!  My PB came from Lake Fork many years ago, but it didn't come off a bed.  The guy in the front of the boat had spent a half-hour flipping at a spawning pair locked on a bed with absolutely no luck.  After I got sufficiently bored watching him I tossed out into the middle of the creek we were in and it was Fish On!

 

Having said that, I'm surprised you mods haven't figured out that this subject is as beat up and bruised as one of those spawners!

[Mainebass1984]

This has been an interesting topic to follow. It is interesting to hear all the opinions of the amateur bass biologists on this subject. There is a lot on non sense being thrown around with very few facts mentioned. Some are so greatly ill informed it is shocking.  Everyone is entitled to there opinion though. I am not an avid bed fisherman. I never target largemouth on beds. I do on occasion take a kid or someone new to fishing out for a day of smallmouth bed fishing. It is fun to see them catch fish and they get hooked.

[Dwight Hottle]

This has been an interesting topic to follow. It is interesting to hear all the opinions of the amateur bass biologists on this subject. There is a lot on non sense being thrown around with very few facts mentioned. Some are so greatly ill informed it is shocking.  Everyone is entitled to there opinion though. I am not an avid bed fisherman. I never target largemouth on beds. I do on occasion take a kid or someone new to fishing out for a day of smallmouth bed fishing. It is fun to see them catch fish and they get hooked.

 

 

I find it offensive that you will target smallies on beds but not largemouth. That's bass discrimination.

[Mainebass1984]

I find it offensive that you will target smallies on beds but not largemouth. That's bass discrimination.

 

Smallmouth are just so easy to catch on a bed. I target them maybe 3 outings a year when I am taking a kid fishing or someone new to fishing. My niece gets a kick out of watching them inhale the lure. It really gets new anglers hooked on fishing. Its pretty exciting when a 3-4 lb smallie inhales your bait within 10 feet of the boat and sky rockets right at the boat. Largemouth... they usually aren't so willing to cooperate when they are on beds. I would just rather target fish not on beds.

[Dwight Hottle]

Smallmouth are just so easy to catch on a bed. I target them maybe 3 outings a year when I am taking a kid fishing or someone new to fishing. My niece gets a kick out of watching them inhale the lure. It really gets new anglers hooked on fishing. Its pretty exciting when a 3-4 lb smallie inhales your bait within 10 feet of the boat and sky rockets right at the boat. Largemouth... they usually aren't so willing to cooperate when they are on beds. I would just rather target fish not on beds.

 

 

I was speaking in jest. What I would like to see you do as the resident biologist is to share some of your learned facts on the original subject. Most guys would appreciate learning the truth. 

[Mainebass1984]

Without going into to much detail :

 

Bed fishing does not have a significant impact on bass populations. For every fish you see on a bed there is one or two behind you in deeper water that you cant see.  More fish spawn in deeper water then we as anglers would like to think. We assume that the fish we can see on beds shallow are the only fish on beds and represent the entire fish population. Bass spawn will spawn in deeper water then most people target, in an excess of 15 feet at times. Bed fishing in water this deep is difficult, the water could be muddy, it could be windy, beds aren't as pronounced. The deeper bedded fish are seldom targeted.

 

In many states bass can not be kept during the spawn. In some states, New Hampshire for example, it is illegal to target fish on beds. You can get a ticket for making repetitive casts to a fish on a bed. The amount of time a bass is off a bed is pivotal to egg survival. The longer the fish is out of the water and off the bed the more time other fish have to raid the bed.

 

Harvesting of more smaller fish will lead to more larger fish and a larger average size. By specifically targeting the smaller size fish you are reducing the competition in that year class. Less fish in a year class leads to faster growth rates and a much healthy condition factor.

 

Removal of larger fish does harm to the overall fish population.  The larger fish grew to that size for a reason. In there genetic makeup they have faster growth rates, longer life spans, greater survival instincts, etc, then the fish that were not able to become adults and attain larger trophy class size.  Look at the success and results of the Texas share a lunker program.

[Dwight Hottle]

Thanks for the insight Nate.

[Catt]

Nate,

Where's the male?

[Mainebass1984]

Nate,

Where's the male?

 

On the bed. Defending against intruders.

[Catt]

On the bed. Defending against intruders.

So we catch the female, the male is still there?

[Mainebass1984]

So we catch the female, the male is still there?

 

If you catch the female off of a bed the male will not completely abandoned the bed. It may move off of the bed for a short period of time but it will return to guard the bed.

[HoosierHawgs]

One thing that has not been talked about is over population. Catch and realease didnt allow George Perry to catch a 22Lber in Georgia calmost 90 years ago. People netted, trapped, Gaffed for food and didnt care about letting their dinner swim away. Lakes 75 years ago probably experieced NO CATCH AND RELEASE.And they did with out a stocking program that most lakes have today. I feel like almost every lake fished is over populated. I think that they lakes are being stocked at a rate that exceeds that lakes ability to maintain quality fish. After reading biology reports for local lakes it seems like numbers increase and size declines over the years.

I think bass over 15 Inchs should be harvested to the bag limit to promote an ecosystem that is not overcrowed. I think that why large lakes do so well is they have an extremly high harvest rate due to the higher pressure.

with the exceptions of larger waters greater than say approx 2500 acres most lakes show signs of overrpopulation. Rarely do i seem to find the football 4 pounders like you will in huge ecosystems like say guntersville or clarkshill in these smaller waters.

http://www.bassresource.com/fish_biology/overpopulated-bass.html

Here is a chart to determine if a fish is underwight for its length. and looking back through my fishing records most fish I have caught in resevoirs and lakes 750-5000 Acres are underweight. Fish i have caught in large ECOSYSTEMS seem to be a bit better.

All the research I have done shows that harvesting fish is better for the enviroment that it hurts. so...

CALL ME A BASS KILLER. NOT ONLY DO I SIGHT FISH BEDDING BASS I HARVEST THEM IN THE 15-20" RANGE . AND ANY 10LB PLUS IS GOING ON ICE TO SOON BE HUNG ON MY DRYWALL

I just don't think that's true. I catch my biggest fish in a strictly Catch and Release water...

[pigeonlake]

I know in the great lakes they say the gobies will eat the whole nest in around a minute,  So while your catching it the eggs are all gone.   

[Brent Bartman]

I just don't think that's true. I catch my biggest fish in a strictly Catch and Release water...

It's absolutely true. Just because the lake is catch and release doesn't mean there aren't other forces to allow for a balanced Eco system.

If there are abundance of bass and the forage can't support growth the schools growth will be stunted. Same idea for deer or any other animal

[K_Mac]

Brent you are right that any system will only support a biomass dependent on many factors. You are also right that selective harvest can be a valuable method of keeping a system in balance. Where you are wrong in my opinion and Mb 1984's (our resident expert) among others, is how that selective harvest is managed. Eat a bunch of the 12" fish and leave those big ones time to grow!

[joelhains]

I really haven't spent much time fishing specifically for bedding bass, but I'm not opposed to it either. I have read probably 75% of this thread so far (I actually found this thread while searching the web for bedding bass research) and I have heard Studies mentioned but I haven't seen any sited. Can someone provide some links to show the actual studies themselves?

 

My thoughts on the subject have always been that a given body of water whether it be a lake or river can only support a certain number of mature fish. So take the 1:50,000 ratio of potential 3lb bass to eggs that was mentioned in an earlier post as a starting point. If there are 10,000,000 eggs laid during that year class you will have 200 fish that will reach 3lbs based on the ratio given as a starting point. Now, if there are several sight fishermen on this given body of water and as a result of them taking males off the nest and making the eggs vulnerable the nests in this given body of water lose1,000,000 eggs. Some would make the assumption that since there is a 1:50,000 survival ratio that this given body of water will lose 20 3lb bass from that year class. I tend to believe that this line of thinking is incorrect based on the ability for the given body of water to support a set number of mature fish. I don't believe the year class would lose 20 fish but that the survival ratio would change from 1:50,000 to 1:45,000.

 

Since a body of water has a limited number of resources to grow a limited number of fish that number will remain the same whether fish are taken off the beds or not. all that is gong to  change is the survival ratio of the eggs that hatch.

 

If a given body of water has the ability to support 10,000 health mature fish but there happens to be 20,000 mature fish in the body of water, the fish won't be healthy. What needs to take place is an event that will decrease the total population of the fish in that given body of water back down to the 10,000 that it is capable of supporting. This could be a fish kill which would most likely take place naturally leaving the strongest fish alive. Or, some other form of regulation which would allow more smaller fish to be taken legally from the body of water so the larger fish wouldn't have to compete for the limited resources with the extra 10,000 fish giving them the opportunity to reach their potential.

 

I know I've read a study on this a few years back and unfortunanlty I haven't been able to locate it.  Maybe there is someone here who will be able to post a link or two for some of these studies. I know most people find this type of thing a bore to read thru but I have always found it very fascinating!

[scaleface]

^^ Exactly . You are much better at making a point than me .

[Dogmatic]

Whew, 10 pages! Glad the argument is settled for me. PA, like NJ protects fish during the spawn, allowing fishing, but prohibiting direct targeting of bedding fish. I do have a problem w/their "big bass" lakes policy that only allows the harvest of fish over 15", believing that slots are a better way to properly manage "big bass" waters.

[Matthew2000]

Look at it this way. Go to a major city in China, go into the poorer part of the city people are packed in with no space. If you take 1 out of every 25 family's away and move them, the whole population will not die off. It just means that these people will get a little extra space. Just like the fish they won't die because the one fishes eggs were eaten.

[WRB]

Long thread with lots of emotion.

Does bed fish harm the bass population in general, no. Can it harm a small fishery with high traffic of bass anglers? Depends on the fishery, population density, water clarity etc.

I wish California had Texas bass mamgement policies, we have very little bass management. Bass are stocked initailly into a new reservior and after that no management outside of 12" minimum and 5 bass limit.

A few lakes request electro shock studies by the DFW to establish a slot limit and a few lakes may incorporate a slot size for a specific year class for a few years.

Some lakes will work with local clubs to establish a safe no fishing zone during the spawn by buoying off a few coves, otherwise there isn't a closed season.

Most of our SoCal lakes are under 2,000 acres at full pool and have very clear water with sparse cover, the beds are easy to find. The lakes have very high fishing pressure with a few hundred bass boaters each weekend, both recreational catch and keep plus weekend tournaments practicing catch and release.

Big bass populations boom and bust under the same fishing regulations, it's the nature of bass to have good recruitment years and bad years. Bed fishing has little overall impact, except on the few giants. Giant bass disappear during summer, fall, winter and show up each spring to spawn and a few are caught and usually end up on someone's wall.

Tom

[F14A-B]

Look at it this way. Go to a major city in China, go into the poorer part of the city people are packed in with no space. If you take 1 out of every 25 family's away and move them, the whole population will not die off. It just means that these people will get a little extra space. Just like the fish they won't die because the one fishes eggs were eaten.

Couldn't you have just used a ant hill as a analogy?

[Matthew2000]

Sure you could you could also fish with a zebco. Just ain't the same is it?

[F14A-B]

Matthew2000, on 23 Feb 2015 - 8:36 PM, said:

Look at it this way. Go to a major city in China, go into the poorer part of the city people are packed in with no space. If you take 1 out of every 25 family's away and move them, the whole population will not die off. It just means that these people will get a little extra space. Just like the fish they won't die because the one fishes eggs were eaten.

Couldn't you have just used a ant hill as a analogy?

Wait, did I make a analogy of a analogy? Hmm..

[Matthew2000]

Matthew2000, on 23 Feb 2015 - 8:36 PM, said:

Look at it this way. Go to a major city in China, go into the poorer part of the city people are packed in with no space. If you take 1 out of every 25 family's away and move them, the whole population will not die off. It just means that these people will get a little extra space. Just like the fish they won't die because the one fishes eggs were eaten.

Couldn't you have just used a ant hill as a analogy?

Wait, did I make a analogy of a analogy? Hmm..

Indeed you did. My analogys are usually pretty terrible. Almost as bad as slozenps jokes.

PS, slozenp I normally laugh at your jokes the most.