BIGGUNZ Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 I need guides replaced on my carrot stix 7'3" mh can I have it spiral wrapped? Quote
EvanT123 Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 In rod building you can have almost anything you want. You will obviously need to have the guides removed and then rewarped in a spiral fashion. It can be done but you gotta pay to play. 1 Quote
BIGGUNZ Posted January 12, 2015 Author Posted January 12, 2015 What do you think it would cost? Quote
Super User S Hovanec Posted January 12, 2015 Super User Posted January 12, 2015 Typically, More than people are willing to pay. Many times, more than the rod is worth. Strip and rewrap an entire rod, probably $12-$15 per guide plus the cost of the guide. Placing the new guides back in the same spot really isn't optimal either. They should be placed where needed, which can leave some ugly spots on the blank where the old guides were. Quote
FloridaFishinFool Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 I work with a custom rod builder here in central Florida and he shows me how he places the spiral guides by first bending the rod. Just put the butt of the rod on the ground and hold it by the tip and start bending the rod. Notice where the rod bends and where it does not. He uses I think 3 guides to spiral with to get to the 4th guide on the underside and beginning of the underside guides all the way out to the tip. His first guide is always a straight up top-side guide, and then 2 and 3 get him around the rod shaft to the 4th guide being the first of the underside guides. He does the first guide on the top of the rod to keep the line coming out of the reel straight forward. Some rod builders make their first guide an offset guide which means the line comes out of the reel slightly off center. So all of the spiral wrapping guides are placed before the bend in the rod where it stays straight under load with the 4th marking the beginning of the bend under load. Only the underside guides are placed throughout the bend under load. I am sure there are guide books available on line to explain this better so you can do it yourself at home. You can cut a cardboard box to hold the rod so you can spin the thread on by hand. And use a book to put tension on the thread. My buddy just showed me his latest creation a 7'6" rod spiral wrapped rod with 14 guides on it! When he puts it under load the line literally follows the curvature of the rod with guides spaced like every 3 inches apart in the bend part of the rod under load. It looks nice and feels great to hold and use, but 14 guides??? I think sometimes he might be going a little overboard with it. I don't see the need for making the line follow the rod so closely like his latest creation does. I have always heard that you don't want the space between the line and rod under load to exceed 3 inches off the rod. My buddy's latest creation keeps the line within a half inch throughout under load. Quote
Super User S Hovanec Posted January 12, 2015 Super User Posted January 12, 2015 14 guides on a 7'6" is ridiculous and absolutely unnecessary. 9 or 10 is all that rod requires. Quote
FloridaFishinFool Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 Yeah well he gets a bit compulsive in taking it to the extreme sometimes. I asked him about the extra guides reducing casting distance by too much guide friction on the line when casting, but he swears up and down it does not affect casting distance. Next time I am over at his shop I'll snap a couple of photos of it. He does some nice work though... Quote
Super User S Hovanec Posted January 12, 2015 Super User Posted January 12, 2015 Friction isn't the problem, its the weight of the extra 4 guides on the important end of the rod that is of concern. 2 Quote
Super User F14A-B Posted January 12, 2015 Super User Posted January 12, 2015 What do you think it would cost? You would be wiser to have a custom build done. You could have one built for less than you may think... Quote
FloridaFishinFool Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 Friction isn't the problem, its the weight of the extra 4 guides on the important end of the rod that is of concern. They are tiny little micro guides. Not sure how much of a concern in weight that would add, but he seems to like it a lot. Quote
BIGGUNZ Posted January 12, 2015 Author Posted January 12, 2015 im looking for a 8' mh fast taper,wrapped and super light Quote
Tim Kelly Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 One of the advantages of spiral wrapping is that you need less guides on the tip end of the rod as the line isn't going to be rubbing against the blank under load. That allows you to have a less dampened (by the weight of the rod guides, whippings and epoxy) rod tip. I have only spiral wrapped my BFS rod, where I think it's an advantage. Heavier rods I build normally as the guides sticking out at all angles from the blank make them more vulnerable to damage when they're lying down in the boat. Quote
Delaware Valley Tackle Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 Generally speaking, it's more cost effective to build from scratch than to rebuild a rod. About the only time I rewrap an entire rod is if it has sentimental value or the blank is unique and hard to match (which is rare nowadays). I recommend Spiral wrapping on most of my new casting builds though. 1 Quote
FloridaFishinFool Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 I am one of those people who like to save dough on equipment and I have never built a rod from scratch nor have I ever had a need to. That is more a luxury than a real need for me. Besides, I love to overhaul my tried and true older rods that I love and can not find any similar replacements for them. So I buy from ebay guide sets at auction or buy now and generally I can purchase good quality titanium oxide guide sets for under $20.00 and the thread costs me about $3.00. And I already have plenty of epoxy products to work with on the shelf. So each rod I overhaul and turn into a spiral wrap costs me out of pocket about $20.00. To me, that is more cost effective than starting from scratch, but that is just my opinion and I am sure others would disagree. Quote
Super User S Hovanec Posted January 12, 2015 Super User Posted January 12, 2015 Personally, I wouldn't waste the money rewrapping a carrot stick. Replace the guides that are broke and fish the rod til it breaks. It shouldn't be long til that happens. There aren't many unbroken ones left. 1 Quote
Delaware Valley Tackle Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 Plus, the OP was talking about having a rod rewrapped. The labor adds up with the stripping etc. Quote
Batson Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 I work with a custom rod builder here in central Florida and he shows me how he places the spiral guides by first bending the rod. Just put the butt of the rod on the ground and hold it by the tip and start bending the rod. Notice where the rod bends and where it does not. He uses I think 3 guides to spiral with to get to the 4th guide on the underside and beginning of the underside guides all the way out to the tip. His first guide is always a straight up top-side guide, and then 2 and 3 get him around the rod shaft to the 4th guide being the first of the underside guides. He does the first guide on the top of the rod to keep the line coming out of the reel straight forward. Some rod builders make their first guide an offset guide which means the line comes out of the reel slightly off center. So all of the spiral wrapping guides are placed before the bend in the rod where it stays straight under load with the 4th marking the beginning of the bend under load. Only the underside guides are placed throughout the bend under load. I am sure there are guide books available on line to explain this better so you can do it yourself at home. You can cut a cardboard box to hold the rod so you can spin the thread on by hand. And use a book to put tension on the thread. My buddy just showed me his latest creation a 7'6" rod spiral wrapped rod with 14 guides on it! When he puts it under load the line literally follows the curvature of the rod with guides spaced like every 3 inches apart in the bend part of the rod under load. It looks nice and feels great to hold and use, but 14 guides??? I think sometimes he might be going a little overboard with it. I don't see the need for making the line follow the rod so closely like his latest creation does. I have always heard that you don't want the space between the line and rod under load to exceed 3 inches off the rod. My buddy's latest creation keeps the line within a half inch throughout under load. Spiral wrapping is the way! Curvature or Deflecting is key though. I hope that he doesnt just space every 3" rather than space out depending on the size of the guides. 14 guides might be a little bit much, but that is why rod building is so great. You can create what ever you want to do. 14 guides on a 7'6" is ridiculous and absolutely unnecessary. 9 or 10 is all that rod requires. 9-10 is just standard. You will start to see more rods come out with more guides because the concept micro or mini guide system is proven. Most of our rods have between 11-12 + tip on 7'2" rods. So 14 is not completely overboard on a 7'6". Casting a 7'2" with 11 guides + Tip is amazing.. So much control and distance! The weight is nominal since we are talking grams not ounces. 1 Quote
Super User F14A-B Posted January 12, 2015 Super User Posted January 12, 2015 More guides = more guide insert failures.. I've never seen or heard of more insert failures than I have the last several years..( micro ) I realize all guides are not created equal, nonetheless, the problem still exist.. Plus grams do add to a ounce..Still, I agree a builder can create a rod based on his own or well accepted, modern engineering knowledge and apply it his way.. Quote
KDW96 Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 I havent heard much about -spiral wrapping- for along time. My dad had one yeeears back. He loved that rod somethin terrible. Fishin a tournament at the ozarks, the rod went in to the lake. We dragged for two hours tryin took hook it,but never did. I wanted to get another for him,but didnt know even where to start.?????? Quote
Super User S Hovanec Posted January 13, 2015 Super User Posted January 13, 2015 I wanted to get another for him,but didnt know even where to start.?????? I'd start by contacting Delaware Valley Tackle. 1 Quote
Batson Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 More guides = more guide insert failures.. I've never seen or heard of more insert failures than I have the last several years..( micro ) I realize all guides are not created equal, nonetheless, the problem still exist.. Plus grams do add to a ounce..Still, I agree a builder can create a rod based on his own or well accepted, modern engineering knowledge and apply it his way.. You have a few questions of course.. More guides = more guide insert failures.. I've never seen or heard of more insert failures than I have the last several years..( micro ) A: In theory yes.. But if you use higher quality guides then you have less insert failures. FYI out of the thousands, meaning 300k+ we get a total of 20-30 avrg units that come back stating they have ring failure. That being said only 30% of that number are real ring failures. the 70% is because some was doing something dumb with their expensive rod. Of that number less than 1% say they had ring failure due to stepping on their guides. SS316 guides and design could be that as well. Kevin Van Dam fishes with ALPS guides and over the many years of fishing, with Quantum, he has never had a ring failure ever! Another note.. There are Micro and Mini guides. Micro guides are so small its even hard to hand hold one of them. Therefore, a spiral wrapped rod having a few more guides will not create more insert failures if your using great guides. I realize all guides are not created equal, nonetheless, the problem still exist.. A: Yes see above.. They are not created equal! The problem exists only if there is a problem. Again we experience very very very few guide failures. Plus grams do add to a ounce. Yes.. Sorry.. I meant grains not grams. Still, I agree a builder can create a rod based on his own or well accepted, modern engineering knowledge and apply it his way.. A: Yes this is true.. Remember this is a thread about is spiral wrapped rods good or not? Spiral wrapped rods are great! Just depends if you want to have one that is or not. Most are turned off about the "looks" of the rod rather its performance value! Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.