Northern/natural Lakes

[papajoe222]

After reading some replies to a different thread, it is obvious that some of the members that fish northern or natural lakes would like to see more information that is relevant to those waters. So I, for one, would like to share some and I encourage others to add some of their knowledge that is specific to those types of water.

For starters, and I believe this is most important reguardless of what type, or where your lake is; "A bass is a bass, is a bass"  I don't know who said this, but I adopted this outlook a long time ago and try to apply the information from every article, video, or thread on a forum to the lakes I fish. Yes, I'm aware that there are northern/Florida strain/ smallmouth, etc. but the generality still applies.  I also believe that structure is the key element to locating fish and that some knowledge of the fish and it's enviornment is essential.

Let's get a little specific now.  Natural lakes contain structure, cover and forage just as the southern impoundments do. They may not be creek arms/ledges, submerged timber, or threadfin shad but they are still present. So whatever information you get from whatever source can be applied to your waters if you 'see' how it translates to them.  Creek arms/ coves, ledges/drop offs, submerged timber/weed beds, threadfin shad/minnows or other small forage fish.

Lets talk points and all the information you know about them. There are 'points in your lake. How do you 'translate' that to a natural lake that's bowl shaped and void of points?  Break down what a point is (slow bottom taper that leads from deep to shallow), and apply it to areas that are similar in your lake.  What about the points and pockets that form in weed beds? That drop off will taper off somewhere (deep to shallow).  Okay, maybe you're getting the idea, but where on that slow taper, or whatever do I look and how do I attack it?  You apply the information you know about points to that area.  You look for isolated cover, a change in bottom composition, current that is the result of the wind, and FORAGE.

I truely belive that if you can see the similarities between the different types of lakes, you can apply not only the knowledge you have acquired, but the techniques and baits that produce in the video's and articles where we obtain some if not a majority of that knowledge.

 

[lmbfisherman]

No matter what body of water I fish, I look for the same exact type of things and fish them normal to those conditions.  I don't change any tactics just because I'm at a kettle lake or a small man made pond.  I look for what bass relate to on/in the water.

[Raul]

"Natural lakes contain structure, cover and forage just as the southern impoundments do."

 

And the annoying sound of a buzzer and a big X appears on the screen when you say the wrong answer.

 

Southern impoundments ?

 

Like if in the south there were no natural lakes, I suppose Lake Kisimee or the Big O ( just to name a couple ) are not natural lakes.

 

The correct way is:

 

"Natural lakes contain structure, cover and forage just as MAN MADE impoundments do"

 

Excuse me if I sound like an *** for pointing it out but there are many differences between natural lakes and man made lakes.

[Catch and Grease]

"Natural lakes contain structure, cover and forage just as the southern impoundments do."

And the annoying sound of a buzzer and a big X appears on the screen when you say the wrong answer.

Southern impoundments ?

Like if in the south there were no natural lakes, I suppose Lake Kisimee or the Big O ( just to name a couple ) are not natural lakes.

The correct way is:

"Natural lakes contain structure, cover and forage just as MAN MADE impoundments do"

Excuse me if I sound like an *** for pointing it out but there are many differences between natural lakes and man made lakes.

Doesn't a Impoundment have to be manmade? Like a natural lake wouldn't be considered a impoundment? Or do I misunderstand the definition of impoundment?

[tatertester]

Gotta agree with the differences between northern natural lakes and river or impoundment waters. I just moved to Kentucky, right by Lake Cumberland, and have been having conversations with a very successful tournament  angler here.......Sure sounds like a whole lot different down here than up in northern Minnesota.......Havent been out fishing yet, but will report back when I do.

[Raul]

Doesn't a Impoundment have to be manmade? Like a natural lake wouldn't be considered a impoundment? Or do I misunderstand the definition of impoundment?

 

True, impoundments are man made, but even though incorrect, the body of water of an impoundment is commonly called "lake".

[mjseverson24]

Bass fishing in natural lakes as compared to reservoirs is very different. Most of the information that pertains to the reservoirs is basically useless to the natural lake fisherman. One of the biggest differences is current. Also the natural lakes typically have a very small amount of wood. The typical forage base for bass up in my neck of the woods is bluegill, perch, crawfish, shiners, and small bass. In a natural lake I classify them in three different ways. 1) clear and deep. 2) Muddy and shallow. 3) some combination of 1&2. I prefer to fish as deep as I can on each lake as I believe the largest fish typically live there. so in a type 1 lake I usually fish humps and drop-offs near the outside weed edges. for type 2 lakes I find the areas with the thickest vegetation but also has "deep" water near by. type 3 lakes are my favorite as they typically have weed growth down to about 12 ft and tend to hold the largest fish in the state. These lakes I fish near the outside weed edges typically the weed is a coon-tail or milfoil. Type 1 lakes I use florocarbon lines the majority of the time, my main presentations are texas rigs, jigs, dropshot, swimjig, spinnerbait, and deep crankbaits. type 2 lakes I use braid the majority of the time, my most productive baits are frogs, spooks, buzzbaits, jigs, t-rigs, squarebill cranks, and bladed jigs. type 3 lakes I use a combination of braid floro and mono, and on these lakes every presentation in the book is effective on any given day, these lakes seem to be the most consistent producers of big bags day in and day out... 

 

Mitch

[Raul]

"Bass fishing in natural lakes as compared to reservoirs is very different. Most of the information that pertains to the reservoirs is basically useless to the natural lake fisherman"

Not true.

[ColdSVT]

"Bass fishing in natural lakes as compared to reservoirs is very different. Most of the information that pertains to the reservoirs is basically useless to the natural lake fisherman"

Not true.

Agreed...while there are some differences i fish both the same in many regards.

[A-Jay]

"Bass fishing in natural lakes as compared to reservoirs is very different. Most of the information that pertains to the reservoirs is basically useless to the natural lake fisherman"

Not true.

 

Please continue with your reason(s) as to why . . . .

 

A-Jay

[Scott F]

I have fished a lot of lakes. Impoundments from central Illinois and Indiana to Arkansas, Missouri, Kentucky and Tennesee. There are certainly thousands I have never seen. Most of the lakes I fish are in Wisconsin and Minnesota. I have a much harder time on the impoundments because they are so different. This just applies to the lakes I've seen, but here are the major differences.
North, clearer water. All of the reservoirs I've been on are much murkier than what I usually see.
Standing timber. Not much of that up North
Colder water. Lakes up North seldom get above 80 degrees and spend 6 months of the year frozen.
Weeds. The bottom of most of the northern lakes I fish are weed covered until the water gets 15 to 20 feet deep. I know there are lots of weeds in a lot of Southern lakes, but not in the ones I've fished. I'm sure the dirtier water has a lot to do with that.
Creek channels. Natural lakes don't have them.
All of the items above pose different challenges from one region to the next. When you aren't used to fishing standing timber in 90 degree water on the edge of a creek channel in water that looks like chocolate milk it can be tough.

[Raul]

You know how to fish "weeds", don't you ? You know how to fish rocks, don't you ? You know how to fish drops, don't you ? You know how to fish clear water, don't you ?

Doesn't ever rain where you live ? So your natural lake never ever gets dirty from run off ?

So different is not "that" different.

Excuse me if my words sound so harsh or if they bother or hurt your sensibility don't kill the messenger but the message is that you really need to learn how to adapt.

" El que es buen gallo en cualquier corral canta " ( a good rooster sings in any pen )

[mjseverson24]

You know how to fish "weeds", don't you ? You know how to fish rocks, don't you ? You know how to fish drops, don't you ? You know how to fish clear water, don't you ?

Doesn't ever rain where you live ? So your natural lake never ever gets dirty from run off ?

So different is not "that" different.

Excuse me if my words sound so harsh or if they bother or hurt your sensibility don't kill the messenger but the message is that you really need to learn how to adapt.

" El que es buen gallo en cualquier corral canta " ( a good rooster sings in any pen )

LOL... the funny thing is you assume that we (northerners and or people used to fishing natural lakes) do not adapt, the truth is we are forced to adapt because the difference between a lake and a river and a reservoir are so different that being able to find good quality fish in one does not mean you will be able to employ the same tactics and patterns on all three... Can you use some basic principals that will be successful on each body of water??? Sure. But look at how the bass tournaments are won on Pickwick vs Erie or Champlain, or the Potomac (tidal system) the same tactics and concepts can be used to catch fish, but the size and quantity may vary dramatically. So the real key is to understand that there are major differences from natural lakes to reservoirs, and use the understanding of each system to most effectively catch fish... 

 

Mitch

[Scott F]

You know how to fish "weeds", don't you ? You know how to fish rocks, don't you ? You know how to fish drops, don't you ? You know how to fish clear water, don't you ?

Doesn't ever rain where you live ? So your natural lake never ever gets dirty from run off ?

So different is not "that" different.

Excuse me if my words sound so harsh or if they bother or hurt your sensibility don't kill the messenger but the message is that you really need to learn how to adapt.

" El que es buen gallo en cualquier corral canta " ( a good rooster sings in any pen )

 

It's apparent you haven't spent much time up north. No, natural lakes for the most part don't get dirty from run off. The deep sunlight penetration in the clear water means there are a lot more and different types of weeds present. They grow in thick mats on the bottom, up to a couple of feet thick. It's tough to drag a lure on the bottom in those conditions. Different types of weeds require a different approach.

 

But thank you for making my point for me.  You do have to adapt when going from northern natural lakes to reservoirs. If fishing both types of lakes were the same, why would I have to adapt? That's the point of this discussion, what works in impoundments, doesn't always work in northern natural lakes. 

[Raul]

It's apparent you haven't spent much time up north. No, natural lakes for the most part don't get dirty from run off. The deep sunlight penetration in the clear water means there are a lot more and different types of weeds present. They grow in thick mats on the bottom, up to a couple of feet thick. It's tough to drag a lure on the bottom in those conditions. Different types of weeds require a different approach.

But thank you for making my point for me. You do have to adapt when going from northern natural lakes to reservoirs. If fishing both types of lakes were the same, why would I have to adapt? That's the point of this discussion, what works in impoundments, doesn't always work in northern natural lakes.

It's apparent you haven't spent much time up north. No, natural lakes for the most part don't get dirty from run off. The deep sunlight penetration in the clear water means there are a lot more and different types of weeds present. They grow in thick mats on the bottom, up to a couple of feet thick. It's tough to drag a lure on the bottom in those conditions. Different types of weeds require a different approach.

But thank you for making my point for me. You do have to adapt when going from northern natural lakes to reservoirs. If fishing both types of lakes were the same, why would I have to adapt? That's the point of this discussion, what works in impoundments, doesn't always work in northern natural lakes.

It's apparent that you have not fished where I have fished or what I fgished, to me what you are describing is not strange, you are not telling me something alien or that I have never seen, weeds growing in thick mats on the the bottom up to a couple of feet, actually now that I come to think about and before this discussion becomes a heated discussion good night Irene, I have nothing more to add to the conversation.

[papajoe222]

Holy Moley! (I'm an old fart, we still say that). I was attempting to help out those that fish natural lakes and as stated, there are some MAJOR DIFFERENCES between them and highland and lowland impoundments. I for one, fish mainly natural lakes and am intimidated by those differences as well as by the sheer size of some lakes like Kentucky.

It's much easier for me to adapt to those differences if I can see the similarities rather than be intimidated by the differences and then apply my knowledge and strengths to those similarities. I look at a ledge as being similar to a drop off. They aren't the same, but the fish relate to them in a similar matter. Current is a major factor in fish positioning in a impoundment the same way shade is in a natural lake.

I believe the exchange of information about the differences and similarities between the two types of lakes will help those that were asking for more information on fishing natural lakes and to those looking to tackle a impoundment for the first time.

[Paul Roberts]

Ouch! Cabin fever striking already??

 

While I see Raul's point, that the water in front of you -the spot- may be handled the same way in both natural and reservoirs lakes (I use the latter term bc there are plenty of man-made smaller waters that are more like natural lakes than impounded rivers), there can be some appreciable differences between res and natural, respectively:

 

-base food chain: often limnetic vs littoral (often rooted macrophyte)

-prey base: often shad vs bluegill, perch, or young bass

-response to precipitation in terms of turbidity

-water level fluctuation

-effects of current from water regulation activity on fish activity

 

No we can't just say there are only two types of bass lake! Lowland res can be like many natural lakes, and highlands share characteristics with oligotrophic lakes, or many quarries for that matter. And the water in front of you most probably has to be dealt with in similar fashion. However, there are some appreciable differences between the two. If you weren't hip to them, you might find yourself dumbfounded -like the first time I fished a res and couldn't catch a darn thing -"what is going on with those fish???!!" -until the water began to move and bingo! Reminds me of a canal I fished a lot once upon a time. Yes, it was man-made lol. Current weighed in heavy. In most natural lakes I fish, not so much.

[lmbfisherman]

I'm in agreement with Raul on this one.  Sure I'll acknowledge there are "differences" as described, but the main two lakes I fish way up "north" (Live in Canada).  It really doesn't change my tactics.  When I find structure or cover, I'll fish it the same for both types.  The main body of water I fish is a local reservoir it has weeds, pads, trees/laydowns, stump fields, flats, rocks..etc.  Exactly the same cover/structure I look for when I first learned to fish the regular cottage lake I go to just as an example.  The point he's trying to make is no matter what type of cover or structure you fish it the same way in general.

[ClackerBuzz]

personally I ask myself a question that trumps natural/man made/highland/low land etc:

what's the mood of the fish on that body of water.

i fish all kinds of water from heavily pressured public water to farm ponds.  the mood of the fish changes per hour/day but what's more important is to identify the over all mood or 'personality' of ur fishery. it makes it so much easier to approach the water.

my farm ponds=fish are very aggressive

heavily pressured public water=fish are very skittish

very stable low land reservoirs w/ little current=fish very skittish

huge lakes or saltwater=fish bold/aggressive.

 

i'll pack my rods according to the water but if i'm heading to new water I'll def be toying with 3 rigs to establish how aggressive or passive the fish are to lures. maybe it will help others.

1- 4lb line and 1/16oz crappie type lures on light action spinning rod

2- 10lb line for casting weightless soft plastics Medium spinning or casting rod 

3- 65lb braid main line w/ 15lb leader to cast 3/8oz jigs on a MH casting rod

 

I listed the line and lure size first b/c they are the most important concept.  the rod is just the tool to deliver them.  I'll get bit on one of these rods and I'll build from there.

the crappie rod is a vacuum cleaner that will catch anything in the area. it will put you on baitfish and game fish quick.  weightless soft plastics are a no brainer and can clean up weed beds.  the jig rod is versatile and can get into nasty cover w/ or w/o a leader.  if your having a hard time getting hit on a double bladed spinner bait but you are catching multiple species non stop on crappie jigs then i'd immediately start finesse fishing.  but if you can't keep them off ur spinnerbait then why not give an A-rig a try.  or if you see a 5" senko is spooking them you better go lighter.

 

my combo's are relative to where i live. if i lived on lake erie or amistad i would up the lines to 8, 12 and 20lb and up the lures to 1/8, 1/2 and 3/4oz.  the most important thing is to play with rate of fall (light lures to heavy) and size of line (4lb to 17lb).  identify the personality of ur water and you're way ahead of the game

[Gundog]

One of the lakes I fish here in Pennsylvania is a natural lake and is extremely difficult to fish. It has very little shallow water with not much vegetation. The lack of shallow water, I believe really kills any chance of this lake being a good lake.Very little shallow water mean less room for spawning beds. Live bait fishing and trolling are the main ways of fishing the lake but those techniques usually get a mixed bag of bass, hybrid striped bass and walleye. And to make it even more difficult, when I started fishing the lake smallmouths were the dominate species but now, 20 yrs later, largemouth now have the higher numbers according to my states fish &boat commissions fish survey. Its the lake that I get skunked on the most. Some day I swear I could use dynamite and still not get a bass. After 20 yrs of fishing this lake I still feel like I did the first year I fished it. Like a dope.

[everythingthatswims]

True, impoundments are man made, but even though incorrect, the body of water of an impoundment is commonly called "lake".

Do you think I will get any weird looks if I start saying Smith Mountain Impoundment? 

[RoLo]

Do you think I will get any weird looks if I start saying Smith Mountain Impoundment? 

 

Technically speaking, Manmade Lake, Impoundment & Reservoir may be used interchangeably

 

The major difference between natural lakes and manmade lakes is 'vegetation'.

Generally speaking, natural lakes are richer in vegetation,

whereas many (but not all) impoundments offer sparse or no vegetation.

 

There are 3 reasons why many reservoirs lack healthy plant growth:

> Pool Level Fluctuation   (many reservoirs experience wide & frequent swings in pool level, which kills aquatic plants)

> Riverine Flow                 (many plants are unhappy in constant current. Some plants such as eelgrass will do fine)

> Poor Soil                        (in reservoirs lacking a natural stream, the water must be pumped-in

                                           even though the native soil may be inferior. Pumping is a slow process, for example,

                                           it took 2 yrs to pump-fill Round Valley Res in NJ, which offered nothing for vegetation.

 

In reservoirs that lack plant life (not all do), bass fishing is a deeper game than you'll find in a natural lake.

In a natural lake with lush vegetation, a trophy bass might live out its life without ever going deeper than 6 feet

For that matter, many natural lakes have a basin depth that doesn't exceed 6 feet.

In lakes that lack vegetation (Natural or Manmade), bass must use deep water for cover and shade,

which would otherwise be provided by littoral vegetation. 

 

Roger

[RSM789]

... good night Irene, I have nothing more to add to the conversation.

 

I have something to add - Me pregunto por qué Raule está actuando como un pendejo.

 

Lighten up dude...

[RSM789]

There are 3 reasons why many reservoirs lack healthy plant growth:

> Pool Level Fluctuation   (many reservoirs experience wide & frequent swings in pool level, which kills aquatic plants)

> Riverine Flow                 (many plants are unhappy in constant current. Some plants such as eelgrass will do fine)

> Poor Soil                        (in reservoirs lacking a natural stream, the water must be pumped-in

                                           even though the native soil may be inferior. Pumping is a slow process, for example,

                                           it took 2 yrs to pump-fill Round Valley Res in NJ, which offered nothing for vegetation.

 

In reservoirs that lack plant life (not all do), bass fishing is a deeper game than you'll find in a natural lake...

 

 

Roger

 

Let me add a 4th reason, one that is valid for many smaller man made lakes here in California.  The weeds are often removed, either by chemicals or machine (such as the one used at Big Bear Lake).  The reason they are removed is often cosmetic, especially on private (HOA) waters.

 

Nonetheless, in some of these lakes, the fish still end up shallow most of the year because the main (only?) cover are docks and there are aerators creating current and oxygen in the backs of the coves.  The surface water temp in the middle of summer can be in the 80's, but there is cover, oxygen & forage available in the shallows.  A completely man made & controlled environment that affects how the bass live and are caught.

[gobig]

RoLo's description of the differences is spot on. All that I can say is that all the different water types present there own set of challenges. One thing remains the same, fish use structure and cover. I don't care what kind of body of water it is structure still plays a roll. In a natural lake depth change of a foot or two can make a difference as to why or why not a spot holds fish. Just because there are no huge tapering points does not mean the lake is void of structure its just at a smaller scale. For example if you start at the bank and follow the bottom contour of the lake. Lets say it decends 1ft every 20ft  until its 4ft deep. Then at the 4ft mark it decends 1ft in 10ft and the back to 1ft every 20ft. That could be the change your looking for. Obviously the more pronounced a contour change is the better. The best way to learn a natural lake is when the weeds are as close to gone as possible.