Delaware Valley Tackle Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 If we're talking about Daiwa's design, they are unique. Quote
Super User aavery2 Posted December 30, 2014 Super User Posted December 30, 2014 The break is still applying a constant force on the inductor cup connecting to the reel. What about magnetic reels that do not use an inductor? The inductor is also made of non-ferrous metal. Quote
Super User F14A-B Posted December 30, 2014 Super User Posted December 30, 2014 Magforce uses mostly centrifugal forces as well, right? Mostly at high spool speed, if I recall right.. Magnets, if I recall the inducter cup moves in and out of the magnetic race way.. Here's the stumper for me, as the inducter cup moves in and out and it's made outta aluminum, right? Then is this just magnetic field resistance? I've never really thought about it before now... Quote
Super User aavery2 Posted December 30, 2014 Super User Posted December 30, 2014 The physics are probably more complex but in context of this conversation I stand by my comment. I keep an open mind though. Please expound. Do a quick search on Lenz's law, it will give a better explanation than I am capable of. What we need to understand is that magnetic braking is proportional to spool speed and is not a constant. 1 Quote
Super User aavery2 Posted December 30, 2014 Super User Posted December 30, 2014 Magforce uses mostly centrifugal forces as well, right? Mostly at high spool speed, if I recall right.. Magnets, if I recall the inducter cup moves in and out of the magnetic race way.. Here's the stumper for me, as the inducter cup moves in and out and it's made outta aluminum, right? Then is this just magnetic field resistance? I've never really thought about it before now... Your very close, do a quick search on Lentz's law and it might answer some questions for you. Quote
ChrisWi Posted December 30, 2014 Author Posted December 30, 2014 What part of Wisconsin are you from? I have a left hand BB1 that I would be willing to let you try out to try to get down the casting. BTW, I like centrifugal brakes better than magnetic brakes. With that said, I primarily fish Shimano reels and that is pretty much what they have in them. Let me know. Thanks! green bay area, dont use left handed reels however, I think I'm going to get myself a Bb-1. Quote
Super User F14A-B Posted December 30, 2014 Super User Posted December 30, 2014 Your very close, do a quick search on Lentz's law and it might answer some questions for you. Wow, interesting law, thanks for the referral. I get the jest of it.. No wonder I didn't attend MIT Quote
Delaware Valley Tackle Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 The examples of Lenz' Law are pretty interesting, thanks for posting about it. I'm still not convinced though that traditional mag brakes (Revo, Lews etc) in practical application have anywhere near the same affect on casting as cent. brakes. Quote
Super User aavery2 Posted December 30, 2014 Super User Posted December 30, 2014 Wow, interesting law, thanks for the referral. I get the jest of it.. No wonder I didn't attend MIT Interesting is right, I am still trying to fully grasp the concept. Maybe there is someone who can break it all down in layman terms. Where you at Ghoti???? 1 Quote
Super User aavery2 Posted December 30, 2014 Super User Posted December 30, 2014 The examples of Lenz' Law are pretty interesting, thanks for posting about it. I'm still not convinced though that traditional mag brakes (Revo, Lews etc) in practical application have anywhere near the same affect on casting as cent. brakes. I won't argue that, but I do feel that they are more linear and adjustable in much finer increments. Quote
IAY Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 What about magnetic reels that do not use an inductor? The inductor is also made of non-ferrous metal. After reading about it in further detail, I understand that it is wrong to say the breaking is constant. Thanks for taking me onto that journey! Quote
Super User aavery2 Posted December 30, 2014 Super User Posted December 30, 2014 After reading about it in further detail, I understand that it is wrong to say the breaking is constant. Thanks for taking me onto that journey! It is an interesting study, but it quickly becomes too technical for my understanding. I am glad that you found it worth while. Quote
Super User Goose52 Posted December 30, 2014 Super User Posted December 30, 2014 Interesting stuff indeed. Reading down from the top of the thread, when I got to the part about the spool components being aluminum, including Daiwa's inductor, I paused. Then I grabbed a magnet and applied it to the cover plate that secures the captive brake shoes on a PQ spool - which I had always ASSumed was ferrous. Nope. Then came back to the computer and finished reading all the thread. Learned something new - thanks also for posting. When I was reading the theory behind the Lenz law effect, and then the mathematical formulas came into play...something in my aging brain started to shut down and I decided - time to go fishing instead... Air temp just went above 32 - no ice in the guides - time to hit some lakes... 1 Quote
Super User aavery2 Posted December 30, 2014 Super User Posted December 30, 2014 Interesting stuff indeed. Reading down from the top of the thread, when I got to the part about the spool components being aluminum, including Daiwa's inductor, I paused. Then I grabbed a magnet and applied it to the cover plate that secures the captive brake shoes on a PQ spool - which I had always ASSumed was ferrous. Nope. Then came back to the computer and finished reading all the thread. Learned something new - thanks also for posting. When I was reading the theory behind the Lenz law effect, and then the mathematical formulas came into play...something in my aging brain started to shut down and I decided - time to go fishing instead... Air temp just went above 32 - no ice in the guides - time to hit some lakes... It does get technical quick, but the basic theory is enough to get an understanding. It would be great if we had someone here that could really elaborate on this for us. Glad you enjoyed it. Quote
hatrix Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 Personally I think diawas braking is the best. I cast pretty much equally between lews and diawas. For lews it is either 1 or 2 brakes and on diawas I go 4-8 on mags. No tension and very little to no thumb usually. They both work excellently. Quote
Super User Raul Posted December 30, 2014 Super User Posted December 30, 2014 Centrifugal or magnetic -----> you have to train the thumb. Quote
mjseverson24 Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 I will try to explain this in the most simple way that I can. Basically the spool and magnets act like a mini generator. Since the magnetic field is constant throughout a cast the only way to increase or decrease the voltage or current induced in the spool is to increase or decrease speed. the induced voltage and current in the spool create a magnetic field of their own, however the magnetic fields are opposite in direction which will cause "magnetic friction" (not a real term but its close to what happens, it is actually induced EMF) as the spool accelerates it increases the amount of "magnetic friction" (similar to centrifugal breaking systems, except its more about spool speed for centrifugal). Mathematically it would appear that magnetic breaking systems are designed to add breaking power proportional to the acceleration of the spool, where centrifugal systems are primarily dependent on speed. By the math it would appear that during the end of a cast a magnetic system actually helps the spool to spin due to the fact that the spool is decelerating causing the EMF to be positive rather than negative, which might explain why it is easier to get an overrun at the end of a mag breaks cast as compared to a cent. This is in no way exactly what is happening, but without mathematical formulas and a decent background in calculous this type of explanation should provide a basic understanding of the principals at work... Mitch Quote
Super User WIGuide Posted December 30, 2014 Super User Posted December 30, 2014 you pop the side plate off, set the brake to 1 or 2 on depending on your thumb, and forget about them. the rest is your thumb and the cast control knob. ^ this Quote
Super User Choporoz Posted December 30, 2014 Super User Posted December 30, 2014 I will try to explain this in the most simple way that I can...... I'm sorry, but I keep re-reading your first sentence and cracking up.....no offense, please.....and I studied engineering for a time...lol Quote
Super User Raul Posted December 30, 2014 Super User Posted December 30, 2014 I will try to explain this in the most simple way that I can. Basically the spool and magnets act like a mini generator. Since the magnetic field is constant throughout a cast the only way to increase or decrease the voltage or current induced in the spool is to increase or decrease speed. the induced voltage and current in the spool create a magnetic field of their own, however the magnetic fields are opposite in direction which will cause "magnetic friction" (not a real term but its close to what happens, it is actually induced EMF) as the spool accelerates it increases the amount of "magnetic friction" (similar to centrifugal breaking systems, except its more about spool speed for centrifugal). Mathematically it would appear that magnetic breaking systems are designed to add breaking power proportional to the acceleration of the spool, where centrifugal systems are primarily dependent on speed. By the math it would appear that during the end of a cast a magnetic system actually helps the spool to spin due to the fact that the spool is decelerating causing the EMF to be positive rather than negative, which might explain why it is easier to get an overrun at the end of a mag breaks cast as compared to a cent. This is in no way exactly what is happening, but without mathematical formulas and a decent background in calculous this type of explanation should provide a basic understanding of the principals at work... Mitch WHUT ? Quote
mjseverson24 Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 I'm sorry, but I keep re-reading your first sentence and cracking up.....no offense, please.....and I studied engineering for a time...lol lol... yeah i tried to stay simple, but i am afraid I failed miserably... This may be a better explanation. magnetic breaking is basically a black box containing magic that allows us to use a baitcaster without backlashing or at least reduces the chance. The method by which it controls the cast is purely magic so do not attempt to understand how it works just understand that it does... Mitch 2 Quote
Super User Goose52 Posted December 30, 2014 Super User Posted December 30, 2014 lol... yeah i tried to stay simple, but i am afraid I failed miserably... This may be a better explanation. magnetic breaking is basically a black box containing magic that allows us to use a baitcaster without backlashing or at least reduces the chance. The method by which it controls the cast is purely magic so do not attempt to understand how it works just understand that it does... Mitch NOW it makes sense - THANKS ! Quote
Super User Goose52 Posted December 30, 2014 Super User Posted December 30, 2014 Interesting stuff indeed. Reading down from the top of the thread, when I got to the part about the spool components being aluminum, including Daiwa's inductor, I paused. Then I grabbed a magnet and applied it to the cover plate that secures the captive brake shoes on a PQ spool - which I had always ASSumed was ferrous. Nope. Then came back to the computer and finished reading all the thread. Learned something new - thanks also for posting. When I was reading the theory behind the Lenz law effect, and then the mathematical formulas came into play...something in my aging brain started to shut down and I decided - time to go fishing instead... Air temp just went above 32 - no ice in the guides - time to hit some lakes... So, I learned something new (Lenz's Law), found out that indeed what happens inside a reel is magic, and caught a couple bass today. To keep on-topic, the bass were caught with a reel having centrifugal brakes (one-brake on), and it is easy to adjust the braking. And to give equal time, I did have a reel with mag braking in the car but it didn't score today. It was a pretty good day... Quote
Super User Raul Posted December 30, 2014 Super User Posted December 30, 2014 lol... yeah i tried to stay simple, but i am afraid I failed miserably... This may be a better explanation. magnetic breaking is basically a black box containing magic that allows us to use a baitcaster without backlashing or at least reduces the chance. The method by which it controls the cast is purely magic so do not attempt to understand how it works just understand that it does... Mitch Now that's a while lotta much easier to understand ! Quote
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