Guest DavidGreen Posted February 16, 2006 Posted February 16, 2006 My First Step Well I got my Laguna burl today. So I set up my split grip on my mandrels, it will be about a 4" grip from the exposed reel seat, the smaller setup in the back is the fighting butt about 2-1/2"...The lone ring to the right is a rubberized cork ring for the butt. ...The layouts are a full Laguna then a 1/4" German Brown ring, then a full Laguna, and then a 1/8" German Brown ring etc.. I'll let that set and probably start turning it down in the morning.... I'll try and post a pic for each step that I do...... Tight Wraps! Quote
Super User flechero Posted February 16, 2006 Super User Posted February 16, 2006 Awesome! Glad it made it already. If you post photos along the way, we may end up having a lot more folks here, starting to build rods!! Especially when they see the bumper wrap! It will be neat to see the process from another, more experienced builder. I hope I see some new tricks! I'll be looking for an update to this thread on my lunch break tomorrow!! I'm still tinkering with grip lengths and shapes. I'm jealous... I can't even figure out how to resize pics to post here. ...lol -keith Quote
BillyBob Posted February 17, 2006 Posted February 17, 2006 I started making rods and wire baits because I couldn't buy what I wanted. Through alot of trial and error I finally got it. (sometimes) Glad your sharing, could always use a new idea. Heres some of mine. Pardon photo setup. Shikari composition fiberglass tip - graphite Blank. CB603 6'er great topwater Quote
BillyBob Posted February 17, 2006 Posted February 17, 2006 Whoa! thats big ! First time I tried posting picture. I'll try again this time with the only design wrap I've attempted. See the FISH? Quote
BillyBob Posted February 17, 2006 Posted February 17, 2006 I'll bet you guys think this is funny! Its about like making baits youv'e never done before....trial and error. Before long I'll get it and be stichin two together...(maybe) :-[ Quote
BillyBob Posted February 17, 2006 Posted February 17, 2006 Okay! trying one with my flippin stick. 8'er lamiglass discontinued. All my handles have some red burl in them. Quote
JimRippe Posted February 17, 2006 Posted February 17, 2006 Reelmech, How is Lamar's cork? I am sure it is great quality. I will have another going soon myself. Have you ever tried flocking a grip? It is sure comfortable. Quote
Guest DavidGreen Posted February 17, 2006 Posted February 17, 2006 BillyBob, Nice looking rods...... JimRippe, I have never used Andy's burl before, the raw rings are a little over-sized (don't fit any of my 1-1/4"dia. jigs for slicing), I think they are molded and not punched like natural cork rings. They have a rough texture that I'm sure will turn very nice. Anyway I will be turning them this morning. I haven't tried the flocking set-up yet, I have been so busy with reels I didn't want to try it until I had time to really work with it. Tight Wraps! Quote
Guest DavidGreen Posted February 17, 2006 Posted February 17, 2006 Warning Long Post! Well I shaped the grip and butt this morning. The pic shows the work I did to make the rings concentric, I turn my grips to match the outer dia. of the rear of the reel seat. This shot shows the start of the taper I do when I turn my split grips, notice the slight angle of the sanding block. I determine the angle by measuring the blank area that the end of the grip will be located, and tapper from that measurement to the front edge of the grip. In this pic I am measuring the depth of the ledge in the rear of the seat, once I have that measured I will measure the inside dia. and turn that length of the grip down to the dia. needed. Sorry about the washout of the details on the mic. In this pic you see the tapered grip, and I'm marking the measurements that I took. In this pic I'm cutting the ledge that will fit inside the reel seat. In this pic you see the tapered grip fit the seat perfectly. Next I turned the butt cork using the same techniques. Didn't shoot any pics of that. Broke the cork lose from the mandrels..... In this pic you see the reel seat (Fuji ECS), the finished grip and butt. This rod is a 6'6" medhvy. fast SC3. The next step is to ream the grip and butt to the balance point the owner wants, the rod is to be slightly tip heavy with the Curado on it. My preliminary findings showed me that mounting the seat about 8" from the end of the blank will give me the balance point desired. Thats it for now. I will try and get the next step done tomarrow (sport boat and travel show down the street from the shop at the Kansas Coliseum, and we get a lot of visitors when it is showtime). That step will be gluing the arbor into the front of the seat, and reaming the cork and seat to fit our balance point. Hope I didn't confuse anyone...... Tight Wraps! Quote
Super User flechero Posted February 18, 2006 Super User Posted February 18, 2006 ReelMech, Everytime you post pics, I'm amazed at how clean and organized your workspace is! I have to compliment you on that, I know it takes real discipline to keep on it... I will clean and organize maybe every few days or so, at best. You barely have cork dust on the bench as you are working! Your shop vac must be good and strong. ....lol I am feeling pretty good about my own process after "day 1" of yours. Although I glue and turn the cork on a 1/2" mandrel. The one glaring difference is the seat placement based on balance. Do you determine the seat location by where it all balances? I have determined where I want the seat first and then make adjustments to achieve the desired balance point, since I like different length handles for different types of rods and techniques. So far, I have only had to make very minor adjustments. Thanks for taking the time to detail your process, I know that many people here (me included) will learn a great deal from this thread! I hope that I don't whip you too bad by asking questions along the way... by understanding your thought and building process, it will help me to look at ways to improve my own. Thanks again, Keith Quote
Guest DavidGreen Posted February 18, 2006 Posted February 18, 2006 flechero, Quote You barely have cork dust on the bench as you are working! Your shop vac must be good and strong. ....lol LOL...That yellow hood is connected to my dust collector, which is always on while I'm turning. When I have to cut trim rings then the dust is all over the shop. Quote I am feeling pretty good about my own process after "day 1" of yours. Although I glue and turn the cork on a 1/2" mandrel. Yeah I use Andy's 3/8" mandrel, back when I first started building that was the size I used, and my system fits using that size. Quote The one glaring difference is the seat placement based on balance. Do you determine the seat location by where it all balances? What I do is tape a seat (usually larger than the one I need) in a position and put the reel on, then the rod and reel go to my fulcrum and I check to see how it balances. From this point I will shift (the reason for a loose fit) the seat up or down and try to fine tune to the balance point. I will get it as close as possible, then mark and note. The customer and I have already had a session for measuring the length of the grip to fit his/her casting hand. I have found on a split grip for casting rods that the length usually falls around 4 to 4-1/2". The whole set-up is about 9" from butt of the blank. The last pic showed about where it was all going to sit and the space I use for the marbling. My next step was to ream a seat to fit the blank at that point, I'm using a ECS 12.5 reamed to fit that mark. I used a 13.0 for the balance set-up so that I could move the reel up or down the blank. Quote I hope that I don't whip you too bad by asking questions along the way... by understanding your thought and building process, it will help me to look at ways to improve my own. No problem, I will probably use all of this and place it on my building site when it's all done, I just hope that I don't confuse anyone...... :-? Tight Wraps! Quote
Super User flechero Posted February 19, 2006 Super User Posted February 19, 2006 You post pretty detailed accounts, and if anyone gets confused, you always take time to answer the questions. (something I sure appreciate) Is that your new rod, or is it for a customer? Quote
Guest DavidGreen Posted February 20, 2006 Posted February 20, 2006 It's for a customer who will be using it for in close t-rigging. Going to be a split grip, ecs seat trimmed, no foregrip, spiral wrap... ;D But got in a Fuego spinning the other day and need to get it done.. Tight Wraps! Quote
Super User flechero Posted February 20, 2006 Super User Posted February 20, 2006 Quote But got in a Fuego spinning the other day and need to get it done.. I heard that you had high class clientelle! ...lol ;D Also, I emailed you on another matter. Quote
Guest DavidGreen Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 Warning Very Long Post! At last post we had the grips turned down and was ready to fit them. My next step was to measure the diameter of the blank were the grips (rear & front) will be epoxied to the blank. I then chose the pilot bit that came close to the blank dia. and bored the grips. Here I'm boring the main grip, I did the exact same procedure on the butt grip........ In this pic I'm using my reamer to ream the butt grip to fit the dia. of the blank at the end of the blank.......... Here I'm reaming the main grip to fit the blank dia just at the end of the taper on this grip...... In this pic I'm using a Forstner bit to cut the indent (approx 1/2" dia. & half the depth) in the rubberized cork that I use for the end cap (butt cap)................ In the next 2 pics you see that I have a good fit........ Next I setup the reel seat...... In this pic I'm reaming the seat to fit the balance point I made note of earlier, I use a course reamer that will make short work of the sizing that I needed to do, I don't use the reamer in a sawing motion, I roll it in the seat as I add pressure.... In this pic I'm using a 100 grit paper on a reamer to smooth out the area that I did with the coarse reamer, I don't want to rough of a surface for bonding... In this pic I'm cutting the FlexCoat arbors that I use. This 1" piece will be epoxied into the front of the seat..... In this pic I'm showing you the mark that I made on the threads, this mark will be the area that is trimmed back to remove some of the seats threads. It also shows the area that the arbor will fill. In this pic I have taped off the threads to protect from the cutoff wheel that I use, and marked the spot for the cut. The shorter threads on the front of the seat allow's the angler to make contact with the blank, by resting the index finger in front of the seats threads..... In this pic I am cleaning the edges of the cut area and making sure that I have a clean smooth threads for the hood to work on... In this shot I'm checking the reel foot that will be placed into this seat, I have a good flush end on the seat when the reel is attached. Next I will epoxy the arbor into the reel seat and let cure over night.... In the next 2 pic's I have let the installed arbor cure well and now I use my pilot bit and bore in the size I need to fit the area on the blank I have selected for the balance point (approx 1/2" dia) In this shot you can see the finished grip area, everything sized and ready for glue-up.... Next post is the glue-up of the grip and seat area's in a couple of days. Thanks for following along..... Tight Wraps! Quote
Super User flechero Posted February 21, 2006 Super User Posted February 21, 2006 Reelmech, How do you like the flexcoat arbors? I thought about getting some... but I still have about 60 cork rings that are not suited for a "visible" location, that's what I use for all my arbors and shims. Someday I'll run out though. ...lol Do you use the flexcoat bits with the round 1/4" pilot for boring? In the pics, you can see the German brown trim rings, but the difference is more subtle than I thought. Andy's Laguna is about like a honey colored stain on Ash or Oak... not nearly as light as natural cork. I would guess (by the color) that they use U-40 or Smooth On as the binding agent in the cork. One day, I will ask him about that. I'm amazed all the time at how many things I used in making longbows and recurves, are also used in rodbuilding. You should take this post when it's finished and just expand the text a little... you'll give Tom K. a run for his money on the book! All in good fun! Keep up the good work! -keith Quote
Guest DavidGreen Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 flechero, Quote How do you like the flexcoat arbors? They are great very light even more so that the Fuji black graphite arbors that I used for years. Quote but I still have about 60 cork rings that are not suited for a "visible" location, that's what I use for all my arbors and shims I have never used cork for seat arbors, have used dry wall tape but never used cork. Quote Do you use the flexcoat bits with the round 1/4" pilot for boring? Oh yeah I use them for boring the seat arbors as shown in the pic, and also use them when I need to quick bore my grips the cork rings have 1/4" holes. This ensures that I get a straight bore with the pilot (in the pics). Quote In the pics, you can see the German brown trim rings, but the difference is more subtle than I thought. Andy's Laguna is about like a honey colored stain on Ash or Oak... not nearly as light as natural cork. Yeah I was hoping that the German Brown would be a couple of shades darker, but it should change when I seal (U-40 sealer) the cork when done... Quote You should take this post when it's finished and just expand the text a little... you'll give Tom K. a run for his money on the book! LOL.....No thanks it is hard enough just writing the captions for this.... I will take it all and add it to my rod site along with the other articles. Tight Wraps! Quote
Guest DavidGreen Posted February 22, 2006 Posted February 22, 2006 Warning Long Post! The Glue Up OK here in this pic I have marked my areas to be readied for the grip glue-up. I have wrapped the blank with masking tape in the area's that I do not want to scuff. In this pic I am using a 3-M UltraFine sanding pad and making what is called a "water break surface". It will help the epoxy adhere to the blank making for a tight bond. I am scuffing only the area's in between the tape and around the area that I marked for the exposed trigger area (you don't want to scuff the area of the blank that is exposed). I use FlexCoat Rod Builders Epoxy, for all of my cork ring and seat component glue-ups. After I have mixed up about 10cc of my two part epoxy, and placed it on a piece of tin foil, I started with the butt section. In this pic I have already epoxied the butt section to the rod blank and am working on the grip that the reel seat will attach to. You see me applying the epoxy to the blank in the sanded area only. Now in this shot I am sliding the grip that the reel seat will attach to down over the epoxied blank and will line it up to my mark. I will add more epoxy to the front of this grip. You can see the butt section already in place. In this pic I am sliding the reel seat down over the epoxied area, and fitting it to the grip. Once it is in place, I will line it up with the spline and wipe off any excess epoxy from the front and around the exposed trigger section. I will rotate the seat on the grip to make sure that my epoxy ring will be attached to the inside collar of the seat. In this pic you see the completed glue-up of the rear butt grip and cap (clamped), the front grip attached to the reel seat, and all wind checks in place, (it is necessary to place the wind checks into their areas, as you do the glue-up. Now I will set this glue-up aside and in a couple of hours, I will remove the cap clamp and let the epoxy cure over night and do my finale shaping (by hand) of the rubberized cork butt cap in the morning. Next post "Shaping The Butt Cap" Thanks for following along! Tight Wraps! Quote
Super User flechero Posted February 22, 2006 Super User Posted February 22, 2006 It's looking good so far! I hope your customer doesn't see this thread, he may want to cancel the order and build his own rod! ;D Just kidding around! Quote
vtbassin Posted February 23, 2006 Posted February 23, 2006 Reelmech, Another rookie question for you. When reaming your cork handles how tight is the finished grip/handle/reelseat?? I have my first rod just about ready for glue. I can slide the grips to within about 2 inches of where they need to be and they are snug. I have read other places that the glue will help slide the grip the remaining distance. Your (very helpful ) pictures look like your cork is reamed to fit the finished location. I am thinking I should ream a little more. Your thoughts?? Thanks for sharing!! Quote
Guest DavidGreen Posted February 23, 2006 Posted February 23, 2006 flechero, Quote It's looking good so far! I hope your customer doesn't see this thread, he may want to cancel the order and build his own rod! Just kidding around! Yeah, but that would be ok to. I often preach to my rod customers that if they were to build just one rod they would better understand what goes into a rod and would treat their rods much better then they do.... vtbassin, Quote When reaming your cork handles how tight is the finished grip/handle/reelseat?? Yeah the 2" rule is a starting point for those that get a little nervous about reaming their grips to much. I like to ream my grips to within 1" of the final position size, then let my epoxy help with the final positioning. If it makes you nervous trying to ream to exact sizes then stick with the 2" mark.. nirrad, Quote do you seal the cork? Yes. When the rod is completed I will seal my grips with U-40 Cork Sealer. Tight Wraps! Quote
Guest DavidGreen Posted February 23, 2006 Posted February 23, 2006 Shaping The Butt Cap The tools needed here are 40 grit and 100 grit blocked paper. I use a pair of V-blocks clamped to my rod table. A lot of builders will sit and place the rod underneath a leg and use this for holding the rod while working the cork on the butt section of the rod. I start with the trigger up as you can see, as I work the rubberized cork cap I will turn the trigger a quarter turn until I have done four sides. In this shot I continue around the butt cap taking off all of the high spots. Make sure as you go around the cap that you are following the angle of the taper. After I have removed all of the high spots, I will switch to my 100 grit block and finish the process. Making sure that I followed the taper of the butt grip. In this shot you have the butt grip and cap sized, tapered and shaped round. In this shot you see the next step, rounding off the edges of the butt cap. I take a 3" wide strip of 40 grit paper and lay it over the end of the cap and use a polishing motion start taking off the edges of the cap, keeping the paper in a rounded shape. Next I will do the same with a strip of 100 grit to finalize the process. In this pic you see the finished rubberized cork butt cap. For those that don't feel comfortable working around the bare blank I would recommend taping off the blank just in case you miss and slide the sand paper a little to far and hit the blank. I have been doing this for so long it is automatic for me, so I don't wrap the blank with tape. Next post "Guide Spacing and Static Deflection Test" Thanks for following along! Tight Wraps! Quote
Guest DavidGreen Posted February 23, 2006 Posted February 23, 2006 Hey flechero, Just got word from the customer, that he will not be buying the rod after all..... So I'm going to finish it up and use it with one of my Accurist, it should balance out the way I like (slightly tip heavy), or I can sell it out of my rack. Now I can take my time...... Tight Wraps! Quote
nirrad Posted February 23, 2006 Posted February 23, 2006 thanks for all the info you are the man, it's great you are taking the time to show this and answer questions. Quote
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