Super User aavery2 Posted December 5, 2014 Super User Posted December 5, 2014 Floridanus, for sure. Yes, it is not so obvious in that photo but it does look just like that "in person," a pale almost irridescent turqoise blue under the lower jaw and on the operculum. Will eventually have a photo of my own that shows it well. And aavery2, do you have the reference for your quote in post #41? What Fish See: Understanding optics and color shifts for designing lures and flies. Colin J. Kageyama, O.D. F.C.O.V.D.
hawgenvy Posted December 5, 2014 Posted December 5, 2014 What Fish See: Understanding optics and color shifts for designing lures and flies. Colin J. Kageyama, O.D. F.C.O.V.D. Thanks!
Ozark_Basser Posted December 5, 2014 Author Posted December 5, 2014 After I give Auggie time to order his copy of Dr. Jones' book I will post the info Dr. Jones sent to me so other guys and gals can order the remaining books while they last. Great investment and fantastic information. I strongly suggest you obtain a copy at a cost of $25 and read/study the information to learn all you can about your adversary. Dr. Jones uses scientific methods to determine how bass see colors and many other aspects of the animal's body. Will post the information over the weekend so be on the lookout for it. Sam You can go ahead and post the link, Sam. If you've seen any posts I've made in the tackle making forum, you'll see that I've been dropping loads of money into making my own jigs. Seems ironic right? lol. I've been buying everything by large amounts though. I hope I don't miss out on getting one of those books though!
Super User Lund Explorer Posted December 5, 2014 Super User Posted December 5, 2014 I'm rather interested in seeing the results of these studies. Once we know how bass see colors, we'll have all of 1% of what we need to know about catching them. 1
Super User aavery2 Posted December 5, 2014 Super User Posted December 5, 2014 I'm rather interested in seeing the results of these studies. Once we know how bass see colors, we'll have all of 1% of what we need to know about catching them. 1% is a 100% more than 0 1
Super User Catt Posted December 5, 2014 Super User Posted December 5, 2014 Contrived Settings That's what these types of observational studies are called by the Scientific Community. A contrived setting is one where the specific situation being studied is "created" by the observer. It maybe "questionable" as to whether or not the data collected does truly reflect a "real life" situation. Philosophy of Science text book! Interesting word choice, "contrived"
Super User aavery2 Posted December 5, 2014 Super User Posted December 5, 2014 Impossible to tell. Everything is assumption. No scientific studies have been completed or published in peer reviewed papers to determine a actual scientific fact how bass see color. Impossible to tell, this is what you believe?
Super User Lund Explorer Posted December 5, 2014 Super User Posted December 5, 2014 1% is a 100% more than 0 Only for the totally clueless, and only if the science isn't flawed. Only if these studies tie color to every other of the thousands of variables. It's just my opinion, but I would think that anyone would be a whole lot better off spending their time trying to understand where fish located themselves on the bodies of water they fish, and then relying on the lures/colors that have already been proven to catch fish. Of course it is winter, so maybe I can understand that the original poster is worried that some bait company is going to discover the secret magic color that all bass will climb over each other to get at, and then hide it. I think I'll waste my time trying to figure out what makes my wife's mind work! 3
Super User aavery2 Posted December 5, 2014 Super User Posted December 5, 2014 Only for the totally clueless, and only if the science isn't flawed. Only if these studies tie color to every other of the thousands of variables. It's just my opinion, but I would think that anyone would be a whole lot better off spending their time trying to understand where fish located themselves on the bodies of water they fish, and then relying on the lures/colors that have already been proven to catch fish. Of course it is winter, so maybe I can understand that the original poster is worried that some bait company is going to discover the secret magic color that all bass will climb over each other to get at, and then hide it. I think I'll waste my time trying to figure out what makes my wife's mind work! See this is funny, because somehow a few others and yourself have made this discussion about what colors of lures are going to catch more fish. When the conversation is about how fish see color. I can understand your haste, wanting to pick your wife's brain and all. People fear what they don't understand and hate what they can't conquer. Andrew Smith
Super User Lund Explorer Posted December 5, 2014 Super User Posted December 5, 2014 See this is funny, because somehow a few others and yourself have made this discussion about what colors of lures are going to catch more fish. When the conversation is about how fish see color. I can understand your haste, wanting to pick your wife's brain and all. People fear what they don't understand and hate what they can't conquer.Andrew Smith I didn't think I was confused when the OP mentioned bait manufacturers, and can't imagine why else he would have asked. And some people learn what battles are worth fighting, and which windmills are not worth tilting at. 1
Super User Sam Posted December 5, 2014 Super User Posted December 5, 2014 Controlled envitoment? Ya mean aquarium? Where's your various depths which lessen light penetration? Where's your water clairity, clear, blue, green, tannic? How about some good old fashion rain runoff? How about variations in sky color? How about angles of the sun due to season? What about winds? What about algae? All found in nature but removed in the name of "science"! Catt makes a strong case against the scientific studies about bass behavior. What we must understand is the "research bubble" that one must enter to appreciate the study's results. With all variables the same the scientist conducts his studies based on one or two variables. If the scientist can expand the variables then he will do so and record the results. In the "scientific research bubble" the scientific establishment will embrace the study and award tenure, Ph.D.'s and promotions based on a study. A scientific study cannot include all variables as there are too many combinations to test. So when one mentions Dr. Jones or other scientists one must understand that their studies are limited but they are all we have. Dr. Jones' studies form the base for Pure Fishing/Berkley products. The products are then modified to produce better results based on the feedback from the professional bass guys. To have a basic understanding of bass behavior takes time reading and watching DVDs; listening to the pros and friends; and then going on the water and experimenting in your area to find the correct color pattern of the day because tomorrow everything changes. Just remember, when you enter another person's "bubble" you are in foreign terroritory but the person you are speaking with has a good grasp of what is included in their "bubble" be it NASCAR, NFL, NBA, college football, quilting, sewing, auto mechanics, plumbing, construction, law, medicine, computers, etc.
Super User aavery2 Posted December 5, 2014 Super User Posted December 5, 2014 I didn't think I was confused when the OP mentioned bait manufacturers, and can't imagine why else he would have asked. And some people learn what battles are worth fighting, and which windmills are not worth tilting at. Your right, I mean why even waste out time on things like sending unmanned space craft to the surface of Mars to wirelessly transmit data and picture back that we can interpret. Bet that might have sounded like quite a stretch to your Grandparents. Why study the eyes of fish and try to determine what they can see, I mean what are the chances that someone discovers a chemical in a fish eye that is a cure for glaucoma or another vision disease, develops a new lens that helps us have better vision underwater, I mean what could possibly be learned. If we used your logic people like DE Vinci, Einstein, Newton, and the Wright Brothers would have settled for status quo. Is it really that big of a stretch to think that we have or may develop the ability to determine how bass see? 1
Super User Team9nine Posted December 5, 2014 Super User Posted December 5, 2014 Is it really that big of a stretch to think that we have or may develop the ability to determine how bass see? No, but I do think it's a pretty big stretch to assume the many posting members here will somehow definitively answer the question before this forum discussion ends -T9
Super User aavery2 Posted December 5, 2014 Super User Posted December 5, 2014 No, but I do think it's a pretty big stretch to assume the many posting members here will somehow definitively answer the question before this forum discussion ends -T9 It's a discussion like any other, different points of view, passionate on both sides.
FunkJishing Posted December 5, 2014 Posted December 5, 2014 Ever see a color and say thats blue but have another person call it purple? or how about the same cenario with red and orange? what I'm saying is maybe the way color is percieved can differ between two bass just like it can between two humans. some reds may look a little more orangish to one person and some purples may look a little more blue to another. not everyones eyes see things the same, why should the eyes of a bass? I doubt bass can't see color, but i don't doubt that they see it diffrently from one to another.
Ozark_Basser Posted December 6, 2014 Author Posted December 6, 2014 Ever see a color and say thats blue but have another person call it purple? or how about the same cenario with red and orange? what I'm saying is maybe the way color is percieved can differ between two bass just like it can between two humans. some reds may look a little more orangish to one person and some purples may look a little more blue to another. not everyones eyes see things the same, why should the eyes of a bass? I doubt bass can't see color, but i don't doubt that they see it diffrently from one to another. I agree. I think it doesn't seem fair to judge one bass the same as another. Anyone who has ever fished beds during the spawn knows that one lure or color may get a bass to pick it up, but the next bed you fish might be totally different. It's almost like bass have their own personalities. So regardless of what color the bass actually sees, it almost seems that bass randomly go after on lure over another, but I do think there would be an advantage in knowing how the bass perceives color. At least it would level out the playing field a bit more. 1
Super User Catt Posted December 6, 2014 Super User Posted December 6, 2014 Love how y'all talk science but refuse to listen to what science is telling y'all! Controlled Observation (Contrived Settings) Controlled observation is a type of observational study where conditions are "contrived" by the researcher. This type if observation may be carried out in a laboratory (aquarium) type situation and because variables are "manipulated" it is said to be in high control. The weakness of the method is that it will be low in ecological validity compared to naturalistic observation. Every thing in science tells us this type of research is quetionable, low in validity, highly subjective, & does not truely reflect " real life" situations! Y'all can believe what y'all want but science says it aint so! 1
Super User aavery2 Posted December 6, 2014 Super User Posted December 6, 2014 Love how y'all talk science but refuse to listen to what science is telling y'all! Controlled Observation (Contrived Settings) Controlled observation is a type of observational study where conditions are "contrived" by the researcher. This type if observation may be carried out in a laboratory (aquarium) type situation and because variables are "manipulated" it is said to be in high control. The weakness of the method is that it will be low in ecological validity compared to naturalistic observation. Every thing in science tells us this type of research is quetionable, low in validity, highly subjective, & does not truely reflect " real life" situations! Y'all can believe what y'all want but science says it aint so! What ain't so ?
Super User Lund Explorer Posted December 6, 2014 Super User Posted December 6, 2014 Your right, I mean why even waste out time on things like sending unmanned space craft to the surface of Mars to wirelessly transmit data and picture back that we can interpret. Bet that might have sounded like quite a stretch to your Grandparents. Why study the eyes of fish and try to determine what they can see, I mean what are the chances that someone discovers a chemical in a fish eye that is a cure for glaucoma or another vision disease, develops a new lens that helps us have better vision underwater, I mean what could possibly be learned. If we used your logic people like DE Vinci, Einstein, Newton, and the Wright Brothers would have settled for status quo. Is it really that big of a stretch to think that we have or may develop the ability to determine how bass see? LMAO! Somehow I've stumbled into the "Science & Technology" section of Bass Resource when all along I thought this was a fishing forum! By all means though, please continue with your research to find a cure for all of those medical marijuana cards!
Super User Catt Posted December 6, 2014 Super User Posted December 6, 2014 What ain't so ? Comprehension level aint so high
Mattlures Posted December 6, 2014 Posted December 6, 2014 I don't pretend to know how bass see colors but they obviously do. I just don't buy into the color red disappearing at a certain depth unless it is very deep or low light. I have scuba dived at 40 ft and I could still see red and orange fish at that depth. They were dulled down some but they definitely weren't grey. 1
Super User aavery2 Posted December 6, 2014 Super User Posted December 6, 2014 LMAO! Somehow I've stumbled into the "Science & Technology" section of Bass Resource when all along I thought this was a fishing forum! By all means though, please continue with your research to find a cure for all of those medical marijuana cards! So there is no Science or Technology associated with bass fishing, news to me. I find it sad that you have to resort to these types of post.
Super User aavery2 Posted December 6, 2014 Super User Posted December 6, 2014 Comprehension level aint so high I assure you Catt that my comprehension is fine. What I have not been able to understand is your argument, and the truth is I am not sure you do either. So make me look bad and spell it out for me.
Super User aavery2 Posted December 6, 2014 Super User Posted December 6, 2014 I don't pretend to know how bass see colors but they obviously do. I just don't buy into the color red disappearing at a certain depth unless it is very deep or low light. I have scuba dived at 40 ft and I could still see red and orange fish at that depth. They were dulled down some but they definitely weren't grey. Clear water and a sunny day, no reason you would not be able to see reds and orange at that depth. It's all about the light penetration.
Super User WRB Posted December 6, 2014 Super User Posted December 6, 2014 When reading articles written about how bass see colors my baseline is my own experience, not science. What I have learned from papers written rarely support what my personal experience has been. My first run into color study was by Dr Loren Hill, who was also a good pro bass angler, when he came out with hid Color- C -Lector, based on his studies of bass vision. Gave it a good try, some of the color combos were very different from anything I had used prior to this. Smoke translucent gray with hot lime green or hot orange proved to be excellent combos. However other proven color combos like cinnamon with blue were not on the chart and those are still good today. The colors the bass reacted to in Hill's study are very similar to nearly every study since; reds disappear quickly and blues stay blue deeper than any other color. I agree with the blue, disagree about reds, based on over 60 years experience catching lots of bass from depths between 0 to over 60'. You wonder why salt water rock fish like red snapper and cow cod are bright red/orange living in 300' to 600' deep? The color jigs you use to catch those rock fish can be important at those 300' to 600' deep! Fish don't see colors the way we do. Tom
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