Selective Harvest

[powerduster]

What annoys me are the people that take home fish that have a high bag limit or no limit at all.  Pure meat hunters fishing with chicken rigs (3 hooks) and bait.  It isn't like they come out once a week, it's the same people 5-7 days a week.  Legal yes but IMO abusing a natural resource, some where down the line it will effect the food chain.  Some of these people sell the fish, that's illegal as they don't have a commercial license.  Talking to these people is futile, so I don't, I just try and be where they aren't.

I've been fishing Florida saltwater 30 years, the last 10 almost daily, the fishing is no where like it used to be.

  I do agree that some people get too carried away, especially when there's a really good bite or blitz going on. I remember one person jumping down to one of the bridge abutments at an inlet throwing a cast net in ripping current during a great run of herring and bluefish. You can just drop a lure down and get a hit almost instantly, so I though it was really silly and not much fun at all. I don't even think he caught anything. There are also the countless muggings when I get one dinky fish. It's like I won the lottery. As long as people don't act too crazy about it then it doesn't bother me.

I guess I might be alone on this one but I believe selective harvesting is neither good nor bad for an ecosystem, it is a case by case basis. But I also believe that selective harvesting overtime severely damages a fishery. Not that the fish population will be in bad shape necessarily, but over time the harvesting of fish will change the genetic makeup of the the fish population. the fish that are typically caught and harvested are fish that are designed (genetically) to be more aggressive and accepting of the types of lures and baits that we use. by harvesting these fish we are basically breeding out the more aggressive and easier to catch fish, and allowing the ones that we have not yet learned out how to catch to breed. Over time the quality of the fishing on that body of water will suffer due to harvesting regardless of weather people think they are responsible or not... the fisheries biologists job is not to maintain a fishery, it is to maintain a healthy ecosystem its the fisherman's job to catch the fish their job is to make sure fish are in the lake... 

 

Mitch

I don't think I agree with you on that. I just don't see a fish geneticaly adapting to avoid lures, because the ones that weren't caught just happened to be smarter.

[Inflatable Raft Bum]

I guess I might be alone on this one but I believe selective harvesting is neither good nor bad for an ecosystem, it is a case by case basis. But I also believe that selective harvesting overtime severely damages a fishery. Not that the fish population will be in bad shape necessarily, but over time the harvesting of fish will change the genetic makeup of the the fish population. the fish that are typically caught and harvested are fish that are designed (genetically) to be more aggressive and accepting of the types of lures and baits that we use. by harvesting these fish we are basically breeding out the more aggressive and easier to catch fish, and allowing the ones that we have not yet learned out how to catch to breed. Over time the quality of the fishing on that body of water will suffer due to harvesting regardless of weather people think they are responsible or not... the fisheries biologists job is not to maintain a fishery, it is to maintain a healthy ecosystem its the fisherman's job to catch the fish their job is to make sure fish are in the lake...

Mitch

So worse case, fish get smarter.. AND BIGGER, and more plentiful.. And harder to catch.

More of a challenge, cool!

(I'm kidding, your post is interesting.. I cant explain what i'm thinking properly, but the nature of bass well, related to feeding.. Is wide open throttle. If your hunch were true i would think the fish on long fished impoundment's would get almost unbearably hard, but its not.. )

[Missourifishin]

I guess I might be alone on this one but I believe selective harvesting is neither good nor bad for an ecosystem, it is a case by case basis. But I also believe that selective harvesting overtime severely damages a fishery. Not that the fish population will be in bad shape necessarily, but over time the harvesting of fish will change the genetic makeup of the the fish population. the fish that are typically caught and harvested are fish that are designed (genetically) to be more aggressive and accepting of the types of lures and baits that we use. by harvesting these fish we are basically breeding out the more aggressive and easier to catch fish, and allowing the ones that we have not yet learned out how to catch to breed. Over time the quality of the fishing on that body of water will suffer due to harvesting regardless of weather people think they are responsible or not... the fisheries biologists job is not to maintain a fishery, it is to maintain a healthy ecosystem its the fisherman's job to catch the fish their job is to make sure fish are in the lake... 

 

Mitch

So you believe being easier or harder to catch is genetic? It's an interesting theory. But I'm pretty skeptical.

[Lund Explorer]

What annoys me are the people that take home fish that have a high bag limit or no limit at all.  Pure meat hunters fishing with chicken rigs (3 hooks) and bait.  It isn't like they come out once a week, it's the same people 5-7 days a week.  Legal yes but IMO abusing a natural resource, some where down the line it will effect the food chain.  Some of these people sell the fish, that's illegal as they don't have a commercial license.  Talking to these people is futile, so I don't, I just try and be where they aren't.

I've been fishing Florida saltwater 30 years, the last 10 almost daily, the fishing is no where like it used to be.

 

That reminds me of the people filling trash cans with smelt each spring at the Singing Bridge.  Those days are long gone now as there hasn't been a run in 15 years.  I wonder if there would still be one if people hadn't been so greedy?

[Lund Explorer]

I guess I might be alone on this one but I believe selective harvesting is neither good nor bad for an ecosystem, it is a case by case basis. But I also believe that selective harvesting overtime severely damages a fishery. Not that the fish population will be in bad shape necessarily, but over time the harvesting of fish will change the genetic makeup of the the fish population. the fish that are typically caught and harvested are fish that are designed (genetically) to be more aggressive and accepting of the types of lures and baits that we use. by harvesting these fish we are basically breeding out the more aggressive and easier to catch fish, and allowing the ones that we have not yet learned out how to catch to breed. Over time the quality of the fishing on that body of water will suffer due to harvesting regardless of weather people think they are responsible or not... the fisheries biologists job is not to maintain a fishery, it is to maintain a healthy ecosystem its the fisherman's job to catch the fish their job is to make sure fish are in the lake... 

 

Mitch

 

I remember something about a study on this subject.  I also remember thinking to myself that it didn't explain why, that after decades of Catch & Keep fishing, that there were any biters left to practice Catch & Release with. 

 

I'm open to the idea, but not being able to find a concrete source for this theory, I think it might be more of an excuse for a bad day on the lake.

[Bassun]

That brings up an interesting thought.  It's been reported there is a definate difference in "catchability" of Florida Strain LMB vs Northern Strain - where the northern are "easier" to catch - I've not witnessed it personally but I can't argue otherwise.  Given the two bass are so similar and yet have different catchability ratings I think it is within scope to say genetics can play a role in catching a specific fish.

 

We also know that everything evolves over time, and that survival of the fittest leaves the cream of the crop surviving while the dullards fall away.  Given that, I can see the foundation for the premise of haversting impacting a fishery.  Now conversely, I would challenge that very concept with this:

 

Catching fish, and releasing them teaches them of lures and can train them not to hit.  Therefore, by not removing some of the fish caught multilple times, you actually decrease the catchability of bass as they learn how to avoid being caught.  If we accept catchability is a trait which can eventually be passed along through genetics - then it would stand to reason eventually these fish would become more and more difficult to catch.  Dr. Dave Willis and Bill Cody wrote an article, "Largemouth Bass Angling and Catchability" (circa 2006) in Pond Boss magazine.  They did a three month study of three like ponds stocked identically but fished at different levels of intensity. 

 

To summarize their study: the low pressure pond was fished at 170 hours/acre and yeilded 3 bass per hour.  Medium pressure 340 hours/acre gave up only 1.2 bass per hour.  And the High pressure pond was fished at 680 hours/acre and only caught .4 fish per hour.  This clearly shows a major impact on catchability vs pressure.  To qualify that further they did a second part to the study, restocking the same ponds with 75 fish, and fishing them each 23 times over the next 49 days. This time the low pressure pond was fished for .8 hours at each session, the medium fished for 1.6 hours each session and the heavy pressured pond at 3.3 hours per session.  By the end of the study NO FISH were able to be caught in the high or even medium pressured ponds!  However, the low pressure pond did still yeild fish even at the end of the study (although at a reduced rate).  These two experiments would pretty dramatically show the effects of fishing pressure.  Fish do learn to avoid being caught.

 

To wrap back to the thought of Catch and Release vs Selective Harvest and the genetic influece of either -- while I believe there is potential creedence either direction, I cannot imagine many fisheries would be able to experience enough fishing pressure over a long enough period to aid in any type of significant evolutionary change.  Given there are nearly 125,000 lakes in the US I think if we were to pressure a fishery enough to stop the fish from biting (aka study 2), humans would change their fishing locale well before fish would evolve to be harder to catch.  Being sentient we would recognize an area not producing any fish and go elsewhere. 

 

 

Anywho -- that's my coffee table analysis...

[ww2farmer]

Bass fisherman give themselves too much credit. The 3 lakes I fish, Honeyoe, Silver, and Conesus, are all relatively small, get pressured heavily from a moderately to large sized crowd of skilled anglers, yet still produce year after year after year. When they are not biting, they are not biting, bass fisherman are THE #1 excuse making group of fisherman of all.

[roadwarrior]

Well, I suspect you occasionally catch fish when other guys can't buy a bite

and the other way around sometimes. I have plenty of days where nothing

works and then run into some guys that just rocked their world. It's very common

when fishing ledges to get completely shut out and then suddenly find a spot

where they are stacked. All I'm saying is that just because they are not biting

for you or me, it doesn't mean they can't be caught.