Slow Reels For What?

[Raul]

5.x-1 (<20" line retrieve per handle revolution) used to be pretty standard... and caught a fair number of fish.

 

 

oe

WAIT !!!!!! HELL NO!!!!!!! NOT TRUE !!!!!! reels with no less tha 6+:1 gear ratio just aren't good for catching anything ..... Like a 13.86 lbers, like a big bunch of 10+ lbers, hundreds of less than 10 and between 5 lbers ..... Nope, not good at all.

[OkobojiEagle]

Raul, you will not catch me standing beside you at a party without one hand covering my cocktail glass...

 

 

oe

[hatrix]

Don't know why you guys are looking at your spools....I look at the bait in the water, and how it acts, and get a feel for what that means in my hands.  Repeat.  As far as ratios/IPT, I have reels that run the gamut.

Because it is a way to actually force your self to slow down even slower when you need to. I don't fish a crank like that but I do often when creeping big baits along the bottom. It can really make a difference sometimes since you can get extreme focus you probably don't have normally since its super slow and just boring your mind and attention can start to wander. I will look around or just be thinking about something else since it is just so long and boring waiting for that bite. It is not as if you need to watch it 100% of the time but it is not a bad thing to watch and see what your doing and try to zone in on it. I don't see my bait when its down on the bottom since I wasn't blessed with x-ray vision so I will watch what im doing. You can look at your bait up close but you probably won't reel it that speed all the time even if you think you might. If I watch it up close and find the speed I want and see how fast the handle turns or the spools spins then I can match that when it is on the bottom and now I am totally sure it is moving at that speed. 

[dosam]

So I used to use a 6:X ratio reel for cranks of all kinds when I first started fishing. It worked well but, there is a lot of vegetation where I fish so it is ideal to have a quicker reel to keep that bait above the grass line. I caught the most fish on my rapala lipless cranks and the faster reel was like night and day compared to slower speeds. The reel ratio is very situational and you shouldn't base gear ratio purely on techniques, surroundings play a big role as well. So I moved to 7:X reels and they work much better for me. Generally though anything thats going deep you will want a slower retrieve such as big deep diving cranks, deep spinners and big jigs. The slower retrieve in a way cancels out the increased torque a bait would experience in deeper depths so that equals a much more natural, collected and effortless retrieve.

[J Francho]

Because it is a way to actually force your self to slow down even slower when you need to. I don't fish a crank like that but I do often when creeping big baits along the bottom. It can really make a difference sometimes since you can get extreme focus you probably don't have normally since its super slow and just boring your mind and attention can start to wander. I will look around or just be thinking about something else since it is just so long and boring waiting for that bite. It is not as if you need to watch it 100% of the time but it is not a bad thing to watch and see what your doing and try to zone in on it. I don't see my bait when its down on the bottom since I wasn't blessed with x-ray vision so I will watch what im doing. You can look at your bait up close but you probably won't reel it that speed all the time even if you think you might. If I watch it up close and find the speed I want and see how fast the handle turns or the spools spins then I can match that when it is on the bottom and now I am totally sure it is moving at that speed. 

 

With lipped cranks, I watch the tip of the rod.  A certain bend with a certain wobble means it's doing something right.  Then once it's in contact, I go be feel.  To tell you the truth, I can't tell how fast the spool is moving.  I can pretty much guarantee you I fish "slower" than most, too.  That may not mean the bait is moving slowly, though.  There are times to slow down, and even dead stick, but the chief trigger to get bass to bite: movement.

[hatrix]

I don't doubt in any way you know what's up and probably do fish slower then most. It is just a little trick u can use to make sure your moving the bait at the speed you want or to direct your focus into fishing the bait totally. I am sure watching a tip would work also. It is much easier to block out everything and only focus on what the bait is doing and the feel of it.

Of course to each there own and what works for ones dose t always work for everyone.

[aavery2]

While I have not tried it, I can't quite understand how watching the spool is going to tell you much about bait speed.  The problem with this technique that I keep coming to is that depending on the level of line on the spool the speed that the bait is being retrieved can vary as much as 40-50% with the spool moving exactly the same speed.   

 

Tactile feedback from the drag of the bait and the bend in the rod would seem to be more usable to me.

[Josh Smith]

While I have not tried it, I can't quite understand how watching the spool is going to tell you much about bait speed.  The problem with this technique that I keep coming to is that depending on the level of line on the spool the speed that the bait is being retrieved can vary as much as 40-50% with the spool moving exactly the same speed.   

 

Tactile feedback from the drag of the bait and the bend in the rod would seem to be more usable to me.

 

I'm the same way, Avery.

 

Some are more visual, though.

 

One thing I found when I went to a faster reel the first time, I had less tactile feedback because of the way the gearing was.  The slower reels of 26ipt and less give better feedback to the fingers through the reel handle.

 

The most sensitive reels I've fished are the 4.7:1 (about 23IPT) Ambassadeurs with braid.  After I remove the slop with bearings (including crank bearing) and other methods, sensitivity through the drive train increases even more.

 

On a fast reel, pull the anti-reverse and strip line, you'll see that it takes a lot of spool rotations to move the reel handle just a little.  (Pulling the anti-reverse can be done by removing the dog on ratchet-and-dog setups.  You can also pull the sleeve out of an IAR bearing and replace it with a same-diameter-and-length tube but with a round opening inside instead of one that grips the shaft.)

 

On the other hand, a slower reel will move the reel handle a lot further, giving more tactile feedback.

 

This is further enhanced on the '60s to '70s Ambassadeur reels (and most others of that era) due to a dog-and-ratchet anti-reverse setup.  There is a little handle movement backwards prior to this engaging, and in many instances can be a huge advantage in feeling through the reel what the lure is doing.

 

Josh

[J Francho]

When I turn the drag off my reels and pull line, just the spool moves. That's how drag works. Or am I missing something?

[Josh Smith]

No, you are right. I have a headache and was thinking of a 5500D.

I'll correct this in a minute.

Josh

[Josh Smith]

Fixed.

[ChrisD46]

Is a 6:4:1 gear ratio the "new" slow gear ratio ? ...Would a  5:4:1 gear ratio be the new "super slow" gear ratio ? ...Seeing as how there are new 8:1:1 gear ratios for baitcast reels - I may not be too far off !

[hatrix]

I had said I will watch my self turn the handle and use that as a gauge on hoe fast I am reeling.

[bassr95]

I've heard it over and over on here-slow down! everybody fishes too fast! but, when you watch footage of pros, it seems like they usually retrieve at mach 5! I'm not convinced that slowing down is the way to catch more fish. Even when I fish a bottom contact bait like a texas rig, I tend to hop, pause, swim, pause, and generally try to cover more water. I tend to use higher gear ratios for almost everything (I don't do much deep cranking, so I don't need the extra torque)

[J Francho]

"Fishing slow" doesn't always mean reeling slow.

[J Francho]

I had said I will watch my self turn the handle and use that as a gauge on hoe fast I am reeling.

 

You know, I'll do that once in a while.  Especially, if I feel the reel isn't fast enough for what I'm doing.  Sometimes on a windy day, the boat is moving fast along the shoreline, and a faster reel helps you keep up up with the boat and retrieve the bait at the right speed.  Especially true if you're in a kayak or a tin boat.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Thoroughly combing an area at multiple angles with a fast moving crank or spinner can still be considered fishing "slow" compared to a run and gun approach. 

[J Francho]

 

Pulling the anti-reverse can be done by removing the dog on ratchet-and-dog setups.  You can also pull the sleeve out of an IAR bearing and replace it with a same-diameter-and-length tube but with a round opening inside instead of one that grips the shaft.

 

Reel service techs everywhere just got a bump in business.  In other words, do not try this at home.  Most modern reels do not use a dog and bone anti reverse, save for the redundant system in some Shimano reels, and it's not easy for most to get it back together properly.  Substituting anything for the roller bearing sleeve is a really bad idea, unless you want to replace it.

[Catt]

"Fishing slow" doesn't always mean reeling slow.

 

 

BOOYAH! 

[Josh Smith]

Reel service techs everywhere just got a bump in business.  In other words, do not try this at home.  Most modern reels do not use a dog and bone anti reverse, save for the redundant system in some Shimano reels, and it's not easy for most to get it back together properly.  Substituting anything for the roller bearing sleeve is a really bad idea, unless you want to replace it.

 

Same material + same diameter = just fine. 

 

Josh

[F14A-B]

I'm not sure why anyone would want to remove the IAR out of any 21st century reel for any reason other than a proper clean & lube... What on earth good could come out of this?

[J Francho]

Same material + same diameter = just fine. 

 

Josh

 

What material, what size, where do I get this part?  Telling the average user to jam scrap metal laying around the shop into a roller bearing is bad advice. 

 

You're really stretching things here to get at pulling line out of a reel in reverse proves it's sensitivity.  I don't think that reel sensitivity is total bunk, but I gotta say, I'm of the opinion that if you're relying on it to tell you what your bait is doing, you're rod is junk.  The rod, even a $20 graphite job, will transit more information than a slow reel, fast reel, in between reel, or string wound up on a pop can. 

 

I'm sorry, what it is that your trying to demonstrate?  That a reel with a higher gear ratio will have less revolutions of the handle per some arbitrary length of line pulled out?  You can get that directly from the gear ratio spec itself.  I'm struggling to understand.  What does this have to do with sensitivity? 

 

Are you saying that on a faster reel you can't react to input from the bait as quickly because the spool is moving so fast?  Fair enough, but you can also argue that you can't react as quickly on a slow reel because your hands are already moving too fast.  Both points are moot, when put in the context of a reel being mounted to a rod.  Even using your logic, a faster reel with no AR would transmit more back to the hands because a small change in bait movement results in greater handle movement.  Also a moot point.  Feel it in the rod.

 

Or is this just a stand you're taking in support of slow ratio reels because it's all own, and all you know?

 

I'm cool with whatever you use to fish - heck, I use a 1:1 ratio centrepin that has no drag or AR to fish rivers - so long as you enjoy what you're doing.  I'd suggest you try some faster ratio reels long enough to learn to adjust to them, and switch back to a slow reel before declaring one better than the other, and see if the your old arguments hold up.  Slow, fast, in the middle- they're just variations on the same tool - it's not a hammer vs. a table saw debate. In certain situations, one or the other either feels better or offers a slight advantage - most were brought up here.  For others, it doesn't matter.  I don't like fast reels for anything moving, except when fast isn't fast enough - then I need faster, lol.

 

Slow reels catch fish.  So do fast ones, and everything in between.  "Better" is personal preference, though there are definite trends that occur among larger groups of users.  The reasons don't have to be quantified through backwards math and off beat claims of better this or that.  I have no need to prove scientifically why I prefer a full rear grip over split.  I just like it.  It's not more or less sensitive, lighter or heavier,. balanced or unbalanced....I just like it.  That doesn't make me smarter than split grip guys.  I suppose I could demonstrate some science to prove why it's better, but it isn't why I use a full grip.

 

I'm not sure why anyone would want to remove the IAR out of any 21st century reel for any reason other than a proper clean & lube... What on earth good could come out of this?

 

None.

[FunkJishing]

I feel they're equally useful and dont see a bad side to using fast or slow reels. most of the time I'm just happy to be fishing.

[J Francho]

 

All most of the time I'm just happy to be fishing.

Fixed that for you.

[WRB]

While noticing the gear ratios getting higher and higher on new reels I thought I'd ask this question.

-what are slower reels best for? and do you prefer a slow or fast reel and why?

I didn't read the entire thread so may be repeating what has already be posted.

When I started bass fishing bait casting reels had small handles and no free spools, they were direct drive about 4:1ratio. Free spool reels became popular the ratio was still about 4:1.

Ambassador "high speed" reels with 5.3:1 ratio and after market wider reel handles in the 70's started the high speed reel era. Today 5.3:1 is considered slow!

When you consider legacy 5.3:1 had LPT of 26" due to the large spool diameter, they were not slow.

This year I am using 8:1 ratio low profile reels, with advertised 33" LPT that averages something close to 26" during a normal length cast, very similar to the legacy reels.

Tom