Reel Gearing Vs Inches Retrieved : Turn Of The Reel Handle And Mechanical Advantage

[mjseverson24]

Yeah I am pretty much in agreement with Josh Smith on this one, the math is good enough to get an illustration of Input to Output, which is what he is talking about. Typically when dealing with these types of single input single output mechanical systems (or electrical) we use a transfer function model, these models are just equations that relay torques, gear ratios, and other physical factors in determining how to effectively achieve a desired output through a controlled input. I can tell you with 100% certainty that If you change the length of the handle on a reel, you have changed key characteristics in the equations that describe its operation, which will change the input to output relationship. So the concept of effective gear ratio is totally appropriate when talking about a reel with different handles and or gears... I actually like the concept he was using of the distance the hand travels VS the approximate amount of line recovered per revolution of the handle, this is actually useful information that can tell you quite a bit about the system, such as energy in and energy out, total work, and the increase in energy required to maintain a specific speed while increasing the load on the output side by some arbitrary unit ( EG. Reeling in a fish, or some weeds)... The information that is less useful is the gear ratio and the IPT, these are only part of the whole and are inadequate in being able to describe the input and output characteristics of the reel without other factors taken into account such as handle length, as well as a few others, although their impact is relatively small...

 

Mitch

[J Francho]

3.8

[J Francho]

Bear with me, as this opens the discussion up, and may support what measurement means more to you. mjseverson24 should be able to chime in, since his background is in this realm.

 

There is a simple formula you can use to figure how much using an extended length handle reduces the amount of torque required to achieve the same result.

 

Using an 80mm handle as a standard we can use arbitrary numbers and say that if it takes 1 ft lb of torque to move the spool with this length handle it would then only require  0.8 ft lbs of torque with a 100mm handle.

 

Or said another way, it would take about 20% less torque to move the spool with the extended handle.

 

It seems to me, 20% decrease in torque would be more easily realized than a 20% increase in knob travel. 

 

Here's why:

 

When I fish a moving bait, I pretty much use a constant retrieve.  Actually, sometimes I slow down as the bait gets closer, but that's a whole different discussion on technique, not gear. That retrieve rate is usually judge by the bend in the rod, or in other words, I pick speed based on resistance of the bait. It matters little what length the handle is, within reason, of course.  My hand moves at basically the same rate, irrespective of the length of the circumference the path of the knobs describe.  Watch yourself reel.  Observe the difference, if any when differing handle lengths are introduced.  I did this with two of my three Chronarchs, one has a Hawgtech, the other does not, and the third is handicapped, as Maximus says lol. There isn't any difference.  Crank shaft RPM, or the speed I move the handle is unchanged, even though I changed handle length.

 

Remember that resistance I spoke about?  To get the rod tip load equally, requires the same cranking RPM.  The perceived torque used to get to this arbitrary, yet constant load is different.  The longer handle takes less effort.  How much less?  aavery quantified this with simple math.  What changes in the parameters affect this perceived difference?  Handle length, gear ratio, spool diameter.  Change just one of these parameters, and you get a noticeable change in the way a reel feels.  What's not on that list?  Knob travel distance, as it relates to "rollout" or "overall gear ratio" -  a term I hate.  The amount of line taken up by the spool is the same, regardless of knob travel.  While this certainly changes when you increase handle length, it isn't an influence on "speed" of the reel. 

 

I'm all for discussions on specs, and using formulas and math to get to the answers and support an opinion.  But, and this is a big ole but, it must apply to practical usage.  There might be a place for Josh's formula to justify or quantify a some mechanical change made to a reel, but for comparison's sake, and real world fishing, it pales in consideration of other factors.  You may disagree, and that's okay, too.  I would like to hear an application of rollout or overall gear ratio applied to actual fishing conditions. 

 

Last thing, if this doesn't discussion interest you, then don't post negatively.  Just move on.  I could care less about many topics posted here, but I have to read them all, being a moderator.  I don't post in threads I deem unworthy of discussion - it's not my business, so long as forum rules aren't being broken.

[aavery2]

 

 

It seems to me, 20% decrease in torque would be more easily realized than a 20% increase in knob travel.  

 

 

This is it in a nutshell,  a 20% increase in  knob travel would have to be measured in fractions of a second, with no real world disadvantage.  A 20% reduction in torque, is something that is very noticeable and it one of the reasons that extended length handles become appealing.

[J Francho]

You mean all I had to do was type that one sentence?  I think I might be getting close to my weekly character quota for the wee