And Here's Why Metal Ringed Guides Suck.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Keep in mind that it's likely that the contamination (sand, grit etc) on the braid is what's doing the damage not the braid itself. There are also levels of SS hardness too. Assuming that all imported rods are sub standard is a stretch. I'm all for US made products, but the sad reality is that there aren't many anymore.

[ClackerBuzz]

Keep in mind that it's likely that the contamination (sand, grit etc) on the braid is what's doing the damage not the braid itself. There are also levels of SS hardness too. Assuming that all imported rods are sub standard is a stretch. I'm all for US made products, but the sad reality is that there aren't many anymore.

I wonder what his reels look like  

[Master Bait'r]

I wonder what his reels look like  

 

 

*sound like 

[GoDeep]

People don't wanna be informed of inferior or low quality products? OK sheeple....smh

[Josh Smith]

Well, I'll tell ya'...

 

All blanks used to be spliced to the handles.  That's the way they were built.  In fact, I have a couple laying around here.

 

Further in fact, when I get the money up, I have a couple old Abu Garcia handles that are not blank-through that DVT will be building into complete rods for me.

 

There's nothing wrong with spliced handles.  There might be slightly less sensitivity in the type I'm talking about, but in the Abu Garcia up there, I don't know.

 

My old Daiwa Bill Dance rod that the modified '60s 5000 sets on has metal guides.  I never gave it much thought beyond that I thought it was cool to feel the line come up the guides.

 

The guides are in excellent shape and I've had that rod since around 1994.  It was my only MH rod for the longest time and only one of two rods I actively used (the other being an ultralight), so you might guess how much work it's done.

 

The Cherrywood HD that I bought not too long ago is too new to be judged yet beyond my feeling not-quite-right that I really like a rod that's as inexpensive as it was.  Friggin' $20 rod feels better to me than a couple $100 rods I have laying around.  Something's wrong there!

 

The BPS 5'6" MH rod also has stainless guides.  From what I can tell, it's going to work just fine.  I might end up wrong, but I don't think so.

 

I'm not defending Abu Garcia.  I love their old stuff and their Made In Sweden reels.  I hate all long-handled modern rods equally so I have no special love for that one that seems to have failed.

 

I'm only relating that I've seen no issues wit all-metal guides.

 

Josh

[F14A-B]

Yea, I equally hate pistol grip rods.. I know how you feel, the older Abu round reels were built like a tank, I seen more than a few veritas rods broke at the handle,I thought it was peculiar, and it never crossed my mind they were spliced, makes perfect sense now.

[Jrob78]

I'm only relating that I've seen no issues wit all-metal guides.

 

Josh

Have you used braid extensively with any of your rods with metal guides?

[Josh Smith]

Have you used braid extensively with any of your rods with metal guides?

 

Yes.  That's all any of them have seen except for the older Daiwa.

 

Keep in mind that I only started fishing again seriously in early 2013, so the Daiwa has seen about two years of braid.  Prior, it was mono as braid in the '90s ran about $50.

 

I would be more concerned with fluorocarbon.  It's pretty hard stuff.

 

Josh

[Jrob78]

Yes.  That's all any of them have seen.

 

Keep in mind that I only started fishing again seriously in early 2013, so the Daiwa has seen about two years of braid.  Prior, it was mono as braid in the '90s ran about $50.

 

I would be more concerned with fluorocarbon.  It's pretty hard stuff.

 

Josh

I have an original Carrot Stix with metal guides that has seen braid exclusively.  It doesn't show any grooving at all, after 8 or 10 years of use.  I don't know why some groove like the OP's rod and some don't.  Or more importantly, how to tell the difference between the one's that will and the one's that won't.  

 

Fluorocarbon is very hard but it's not harder than stainless steel.  Braid is much more apt to pick up debris and carry it through your guides.  I'm sure it has to do with the water you fish and maybe even the braid you use.  

[S Hovanec]

Just to show that this isn't just an isolated incident, here is a ML Fenwick that came in last week.  I had previously replaced the tip a few years ago on this rod due to grooving.  Now the stripper and a running guide are grooved.  Probably one other was too, but it was missing, which is why it was in for repair.

 

Running guide.  There are 8 grooves on this one, only 5 are visible in the pic.

 

Stripper.  Only 4 grooves here.

 

The line isn't harder than the guide, but the sediment it picks up is.  Braid isn't the only culprit.  I've had tip grooves from floro come in too.

[S Hovanec]

and on a tangent, here's that Kistler I mentioned a couple pages ago.

 

 

[J Francho]

Was that their old "graphite" line from years ago?  I had five of them.

[TrippyJai]

I had a Fenwick Elite Tech Crankshaft that grooved with Big Game mono. According to the Tackletour review, it uses Pac Bay DPL frames with SiC guide inserts. I wish I had taken a few pictures before returning the rod. If I recall, the grooves were due to me trying to free a snag.

[S Hovanec]

I've never seen a ceramic insert groove. I've see bunches crack and pieces fall out. I've seen guides with the plastic shock rings loose the ceramic insert and people not know, thus grooving the plastic ring.

[J Francho]

I chipped the top ring on my old frog rod, an Avid AVC70HF, and there was some grooving.  I actually didn't realize it, and had a REALLY bad impression of Berkley Tracer braid.  Lol, turns out it was my rod!

[Capt.Bob]

Yep, does make sense. I've seen grooved Recoils from that as well.

Sounds like you see more rods than the biggest manufacturers,,, or are listning to what someone shows you in a picyure. I have seen grooved recoils once,,,the guy admitted to using wire, trolling and fishing for salmon,,,,

 

Croix and Loomis haven't had any grooving issues because they're using SiC tips. If they used the Recoil tips, i bet they would also groove.

As for the running guides grooving, I feel this is caused by the guide getting nicked by a harder material. It then creates a place for the line to catch, thus making it run in the same spot over and over.

Yes I always have mine built with a sic tip top.  But when your fishing a ML in a river sytem in muddy water landing carp and cat's to 12-15 pounds with a few 6-7 pound sheep head thrown in the tip isn't getting more pressure than some of the other guides when it's bent in 2 with 10# braid cutting thru everything. Never had a problem with any. remember owners hardly ever tell the facts when their misuse ruins something. That 1`0# braid is like a saw blade also.

 

Keep in mind that it's likely that the contamination (sand, grit etc) on the braid is what's doing the damage not the braid itself. There are also levels of SS hardness too. Assuming that all imported rods are sub standard is a stretch. I'm all for US made products, but the sad reality is that there aren't many anymore.

In all honesty those guides would never be on anything I would use,,,period! And the handle is no excuse, bad quality also, sadly your right aint many US owned or built, but no excuse for spending good money on sorry quality when we Have St. Croix, and other than the handle, even the recoils and blanks are made right here, and fully built here!

 

Here is something you might find interesting. This is a copy of a reply from St. Croix Guys.

I sent an email out to St. Croix following the discussion we had last week regarding the REC “Recoil” guides being used on some of the high end rods like the Legend Extreme. One of the things I like about St. Croix is that they’ll take the time to respond to questions. And this time was no different.

I won’t post the entire response but here’s the stuff that counts…

“We have used these guides for 4 years. I have not seen 1 guide with any grooving or wear from braid.”

Zero warranty claims on grooved REC guides in 4 years. NADA.

He goes on to state that if anyone has a grooved St. Croix guide… he wants to see it. Beyond a few second hand rumor type statements of “I heard from this guy that bought one and his guides grooved from using braid” they’re not seeing anything of the kind in the warranty repair department or have heard about it from actual St. Croix owners at the customer service call desk.

If you have a grooved set of guides… bring it to a sports show or contact St. Croix directly. In their durability tests that have been ongoing for years they have been unable to damage the titanium guides with braided line. Period. In fact, after heavy use the titanium guides “polish” and get smoother… leading to longer casts and even better performance. But certainly NOT grooves.

So, that’s the scoop on that. The grooved Recoil guides claims don’t hold water.

I thought it was interesting, I have two rods with recoil guides, an NRX and a Legend Extreme, neither has had any issues to date. I have seen lots of pictures of damaged guides but have never been able to get my hands on one to look at them very close. Have you been able to get your hands on any damaged guides?

I was told the same thing, and by custom builders also. I know one custom builder that said he had one rod trashed early in the release of the recoils, and that was the guy running wire line, I assure sic or any material won't take that for ever. He also did say it was the only one out of many he has herd of anything but stellar results with using the Recoils. I imagine that's why when I started having my rod's built with recoils they let me know it was bull, and if I ever had there guide fail they would replace it for life!! He also said if I ever wanted to build another rod if something happened to mine, reuse em and still lifetime warranty,,,,try that wuith a sic or any other imported guide?????

[J Francho]

 

or are listning to what someone shows you in a picyure

 

No different than you quoting something from the internet.

[ww2farmer]

Well, seems like the general concensus is that Abu rods suck. Send them to me for proper disposal.

[Capt.Bob]

No different than you quoting something from the internet.

Sorry I'll put it this way, show me just one you ruined, I have 4 rods with em now and looks like I'll never get to use the lifetime guarantee on em, I am just saying the only flawed ring I have ever heard about was exactly that, herd about, like you I have never seen one in reel life. I have seen this kind of stuff from abu before, when it comes to their rods. Sorry, didn't mean to flame anyone!!

[J Francho]

Not sure why I have to prove that I've seen it on recoil tips? I don't have a picture, but it was on a 13' GLX float rod. Braid mainline in a silty river environment.

[smalljaw67]

I have an old Cabelas XMLTi, it has all recoil guides with a ceramic tip top, this has been used with all kinds of line including braid and no problems with the guides at all. I have a G.Loomis GL3 that has the standard aluminum oxide rings and it too is fine, what I'm getting at is I only had a ceramic guide fail once and it popped out after it cracked but no grooves. I got a Daiwa Procyon spinning rod with Pacific Bay black ring Minima guides on it for a present 2 years ago, so far I've only used mon but the rod had several run in with muskies, 2 of them landed, 1 was 16lbs and 1 was  23lbs not too mention all the bass and other fish caught on it and no grooving. I know, 2 years isn't that long but my point is that when I hear these stories and see the pictures, the person usually states the rod is less than or only a year old or something to that effect, I don't doubt they can groove but I have quite a few Fenwicks with Zirconia rings that are fine, a few Aetos rods with the titanium inserts that still look knew even when used with braid for throwing frogs in slop, no trouble. I don't think manufactures are going to put lifetime warranties on rods that have guides that will fail after 1 season, I just don't see that being a big issue. BTW, I check my guide before the first trip out after winter, then I check them half way through, this year was the end of August and then when the water freezes over and I'm done for the winter I'll clean my rods and inspect the guides with a 10X loop and also clean the guides with a Q-Tip, if I miss something with the loop the cotton on the Q-Tip will surely grab any crack or groove and alert me to an issue.

[bass raider]

sorry if i'm hi jacking the thread but are the guides used on the abu rod on the 1st.page the same type of guides fenwick uses on their hmg series? all it says on their site is "deep pressed titanium guides eliminate insert pop out & are virtually bulletproof"

                    thanks

[S Hovanec]

sorry if i'm hi jacking the thread but are the guides used on the abu rod on the 1st.page the same type of guides fenwick uses on their hmg series? all it says on their site is "deep pressed titanium guides eliminate insert pop out & are virtually bulletproof"

                    thanks

Really can't say from their description. It doesn't say if the rings are SS or ceramic. The guides on the Abu are Ti frames with SS rings.