Topwater Frog Setup - Opinion?

[BooyahMan]

Howdy! First post here on Bass Resource and hopefully not my last. I hope I can learn a lot from the veteran bass anglers on this site!

 

My post is in regards to a top water frog setup that I recently put together and an issue that has come up with it. I am currently using a Shimano Compre 7'0 medium action spinning rod and 30lb braid run straight to a Booyah Pad Crasher. I have had some luck getting bass to strike the frog (still have to get my timing down for the hook set), but it is troubling to me that whenever I manage to get a hookup the fish magically gets stuck in the lily pads. I have no problems dislodging the pads but the fish always comes off too. The pads are not very thick at this time of year and the lake I fish in rarely has bass that exceed 2lbs.

 

Is my inability to land fish due to my setup being too light, even for these conditions? I got so frustrated that I had the last fish I hooked sailing out of the water but it still managed to get stuck somehow. I am a little mystified as I was told that braid would help cut through the pads should this situation arise, but the only thing it has done so far is prevent me from losing my Booyahs. 

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I am still very new to bass fishing so please excuse any blatantly obvious errors in my methods. 

 

Thanks!

[C0lt]

The reason you're not landing any fish is one, or a combination of, two reasons. 

 

first, you're using a medium action rod. It just doesn't have enough back bone to drive those thick frog hooks. 

 

second , i can almost guarantee you're setting the hook to quickly. I fish frogs more than any other category of tackle I have, and you really need to train yourself to let the fish hit, and actually feel him on the line, or see your line moving, then you set the hook. 

 

I would recommend switching to at least a medium heavy rod, and preferably a baitcaster with 60lb-80lb braid. I would also practice your hookset timing. next time a fish blows up on your frog, count to two, out loud, reel down and then set your hook.

 

hope this helped  

[BooyahMan]

Thanks for the reply C0lt!

The reason you're not landing any fish is one, or a combination of, two reasons. 

 

first, you're using a medium action rod. It just doesn't have enough back bone to drive those thick frog hooks. 

 

second , i can almost guarantee you're setting the hook to quickly. I fish frogs more than any other category of tackle I have, and you really need to train yourself to let the fish hit, and actually feel him on the line, or see your line moving, then you set the hook. 

 

I would recommend switching to at least a medium heavy rod, and preferably a baitcaster with 60lb-80lb braid. I would also practice your hookset timing. next time a fish blows up on your frog, count to two, out loud, reel down and then set your hook.

 

hope this helped  

Thanks for the reply! Is it safe to assume then that with a heavier action rod, even if the fish does get stuck in the pads it will be less likely to come unbuttoned when I pull the line free from the pads as well? And I'm guessing just setting the hook harder won't solve the problem? Also, is the stiffness of the rod an issue as well? The Compre is listed as moderate and I've heard that fast action is what I really should be looking for. 

 

Also, thank you for the advice on timing. I've only been counting to 1 after the blow up as I can just begin to feel the fish at that point. In addition I've been failing to reel down before setting so the slack probably is doing a lot of harm to the efficiency of my hook set as well.

[ABW]

If I were you I'd invest in a nice baitcasting combo and lean how to use that. Once you get the hang of them an ENTIRELY new world of bass fishing will be opened up. 

[C0lt]

Thanks for the reply C0lt!

Thanks for the reply! Is it safe to assume then that with a heavier action rod, even if the fish does get stuck in the pads it will be less likely to come unbuttoned when I pull the line free from the pads as well? And I'm guessing just setting the hook harder won't solve the problem? Also, is the stiffness of the rod an issue as well? The Compre is listed as moderate and I've heard that fast action is what I really should be looking for. 

 

Also, thank you for the advice on timing. I've only been counting to 1 after the blow up as I can just begin to feel the fish at that point. In addition I've been failing to reel down before setting so the slack probably is doing a lot of harm to the efficiency of my hook set as well.

the fast action tip is important, however having a rod with a backbone is also important. I promise if you get yourself a 7ft med-heavy rod, even if its a spinning rod opposed to a baitcaster, you will see a huge difference in the amount of hook sets your making. 

[BooyahMan]

If I were you I'd invest in a nice baitcasting combo and lean how to use that. Once you get the hang of them an ENTIRELY new world of bass fishing will be opened up. 

 

 

That is definitely a possibility as I used to use baitcasting for drifting rivers and recently picked up a cheap low profile that I was thinking of using for the lakes. What advantages would baitcasting have over spinning for topwater frogs? 

[BooyahMan]

the fast action tip is important, however having a rod with a backbone is also important. I promise if you get yourself a 7ft med-heavy rod, even if its a spinning rod opposed to a baitcaster, you will see a huge difference in the amount of hook sets your making. 

Just what I needed to know. Do you have any suggestions? Preferably with a cheaper budget in mind. 

[ABW]

That is definitely a possibility as I used to use baitcasting for drifting rivers and recently picked up a cheap low profile that I was thinking of using for the lakes. What advantages would baitcasting have over spinning for topwater frogs? 

 

With a baitcaster you'll be able to launch the frogs pretty far, use heavier braid, and baitcasters come in high speed gear ratios which will help with hooksets. 

 

If you do get one, don't cheap out on them. You can get a quality combo for around 200 dollars.

 

Edit: If you want to stay with spinning, then get a MH Fast action rod like Colt said. 

[benthinkin]

get a rod with lots of back bone. wait to set the hook. keep the braid. then reel. if your hook is set good there is no coming off.

[C0lt]

Just what I needed to know. Do you have any suggestions? Preferably with a cheaper budget in mind. 

there are two pretty cheap rods that I have used and liked a lot actually. You can pick up and ugly stik gx2 for 40 bucks, or a berkley lightning rod for 50. as for reels, im not that picky. many people suggest the lews speed spool. theres a model you can pick up for 80. I suggest any gear ratio in the ball park of 7:1

[benthinkin]

there are two pretty cheap rods that I have used and liked a lot actually. You can pick up and ugly stik gx2 for 40 bucks, or a berkley lightning rod for 50. as for reels, im not that picky. many people suggest the lews speed spool. theres a model you can pick up for 80. I suggest any gear ratio in the ball park of 7:1

LOVE MY LEWS

[BooyahMan]

Thanks for all the great feedback guys. I took a look at the GX2 and Lightning rods in their medium-heavy models and unfortunately, they only come in 1 piece rods for that action. Due to transportation limitations I would really prefer to get a 2 piece rod as opposed to a 1 piece. Hope that's not blasphemy when it comes to bass rods! Very tempted by the GX2 rods though as we have a bunch at my workplace and they seem quite solid. For 2 piece rods I was eyeing the Berkley Cherrywood HD and the Shimano Stimula, as well as the Shimano FX. I know these are bottom of the barrel cheap rods but is there any disadvantage to using these rods? Assuming they are medium-heavy and have a fast tip.

 

Thanks again everyone. Bass gear is very different from what I am used to so I have lots to learn!

[Bluebasser86]

I frog fish with either a 7' M/F St. Croix Premier or 6' 10" MH/F Ethos, both paired with 40lb Sufix Performance braid. I see nothing wrong with using the rod and line you're using. Granted, I'm not fishing super thick slop, and if you are then I would certainly move up to a heavier rod. I'll bet it's your frog that's more the issue. Use some pliers to bend your hooks up away from the back of the frog very slightly, this gives your hooks a little separation from the back of your frog and allows a clearer path to the fishes mouth on the hookset. I did this after having problems with hookups on my Spro frog and I rarely miss a fish now. 

[Master Bait'r]

Thanks for all the great feedback guys. I took a look at the GX2 and Lightning rods in their medium-heavy models and unfortunately, they only come in 1 piece rods for that action. Due to transportation limitations I would really prefer to get a 2 piece rod as opposed to a 1 piece. Hope that's not blasphemy when it comes to bass rods! Very tempted by the GX2 rods though as we have a bunch at my workplace and they seem quite solid. For 2 piece rods I was eyeing the Berkley Cherrywood HD and the Shimano Stimula, as well as the Shimano FX. I know these are bottom of the barrel cheap rods but is there any disadvantage to using these rods? Assuming they are medium-heavy and have a fast tip.

 

Thanks again everyone. Bass gear is very different from what I am used to so I have lots to learn!

 

 

Definitely go 1 piece and deal with it.  Also consider a heavy action if you can as long as it has a little tip softness- don't buy a broomstick though.  Regardless, one pieces fit in most every car, it's just a fanagle to get 'em in the door and lay them down the middle, etc...  Worth it though. The actions are much better.  At that price point, I'd definitely go lightning shock.  They're actually decent rods and they'll serve you well.  The biggest reasons you want a baitcasting reel though is no line twist on heavy braid and also there's usually better drags on them, which is important in setting hooks as discussed above- and muscling them in without buckling to the weeds + fish.  Finally they also offer faster retrieves- and a 7.1:1 speed reel is standard fare, for you want to be able to keep the right amount of slack retrieve while waling or popping frogs.  the rod you want a MH or H blank to be able to transfer enough energy to send those big fat hooks home AND deal with all those weeds so it's a double whammy.  Frogging is freshwater power fishing personified and it is awesome.  

 

If you're frogging and want to really frog, it's certainly true that you're going to need a heavier setup- but you can also use that same setup to jigs or use other heavy cover presentations too so it's not just a one-trick pony kind of thing.  More like a heavy cover investment      

[fishballer06]

I'd recommend a baitcasting setup to help you out immensely. Here's what I'd recommend. 

 

Baitcaster with a 6:1 or 7:1 ratio

50-65 pound braid. Being in Canada, you probably aren't fishing the super nasty stuff that they have down south where they need 80 pound.

7' or 7'6" rod, in either MH or H. With a fast action tip. 

 

Frogs seem to work best for me whenever they're tied directly on. Plus, a snap can pull apart when pulling a big fish through heavy weeds/pads. With 50 lb+ braid, your line/knot are much stronger than your snap, so tie on directly.

[hatrix]

You should be able to do just fine with what you have now for the most part. I am not sure but if there getting in the pads and your trying to hold them there and troll over to get them free (I think thats what you were saying) your going to have a bad time doing that regardless of what your using. You need to not play games with these fish. As soon as you set that hook start burning it back towards you and get them up to the surface. You should be able to pretty much ski bass them back to you the whole way. Even if they do get caught in the pads keep trying. Your line should not break with it being braid and your drag is going to give before your line will. 

 

Those Berkley are not a bad rod for spinning rods and I am sure the casting are just fine as well. As for a casting reel I unless your fairly experienced I would try to find one with centrifugal braking. That Lews reel is not a bad reel but being only magnetic if you start casting lures that helicopter or grab wind you can start having some issues if your not fairly adept as casting. It can become frustrating to someone and slow the learning curve down. 

[CarolinaBoy4Life]

I use a 7' H Veritas with Revo S reel at 6.4:1. It's a frog only rod setup I use with 65lb braid. It's gonna be hard to get a two piece rod that would work for real dense cover. At least I feel that to be the case. I'd much rather have a 7' H or MH rod with a fast tip. Those Berkley Lightning rod's are an awesome deal for the price point. I'm getting one as a backup frog rod in the 7'6 H. Those thing's are TOUGH.

[BooyahMan]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. Lots of stuff for me to mull over, although I have a bit of time as i probably won't be doing much heavy cover fishing until next year. Hopefully I can snag some quality gear between then and now. 

[BooyahMan]

Hi guys, sorry to double post in my own thread but I have an update  (already). No I did not get a new setup yet and I still have every intention of doing so, but I once again want to thank everyone that contributed to this thread. I tried frogging again tonight and FINALLY landed my first fish on it. I took the advice on the hook sets to heart and it really made a difference; I actually set the hook so hard that I fell backwards and looked like a complete fool.

 

I know it's not a big bass by most people's standards here but this fish broke my previous record by almost 2 inches. Needless to say I am very happy and it was released to be caught another day.