Asking For A Raise

[clayton86]

Gang I got a question. How would you go about asking for a raise at your job.

I ask because since starting my new job I have excelled greatly. I started back in January with almost no experience and within a month I was put on our biggest project and also the most scrutinizing I guess the word would be. I work in a fiberglass shop. I was put on the ansaldobreda job building train parts for sub way cars. These parts had to be absolutely perfect no air, perfect gel coat, not a scratch or blemish on it oh and not no mention done in impossible time constraints. The previous guys working on it were taking around on average 700hrs to do a complete set and we priced it at around 180hrs so we lost our arses on that job. Well I took over with one other guy and I gelcoated and layed up the parts entirely by myself then my partner cut them out and bolted certain ones together and then I buffed them and packaged them up for shipping and shipped them. We cut that job down to 230hrs was our average. So that's example 1.

Since the train job I have also started doing other custom projects and jobs. I have picked up more skills and attributes to the job. I now spray chop, vacuum bag, gel coat repair, build and repair molds, and repair broken or damaged parts. I do all this faster and with better quality then honestly 90% of the guys I work with and it's known. Management says it and anything that's hard or "can't be done" goes to me and I do it and do it extremely well.

I've never been late or missed a day for anything other then military obligations to the guard. So here I am doing all this work any OT they need come in every Saturday just about I now run the whole back section of te shop and am incharge of two others and am tasked with interviewing and hiring a 3rd but yet I make my entree wage of 12hr. I trained a guy that has since quit and it's come to my attention that he was making 14hr and I was training him!!!

I think I've proved my self and they are giving me the responsibility and projects that demand the higher rate that the other guys get but yet I haven't seen a raise sense I have started almost 10 months ago. Part of me wants to quit but I like it im good at it plus it has great benefits and is 5.1 miles from my house. And the saying grass isn't always greener on the other side comes to mind.

The shop foreman is clueless he still forgets my name and it's on my shirt and I've been gem here 10 months. The general manager is a complete tool and undermines ever gone and everything and is the biggest cheapskate you will ever meet. The owner comes but once every 3 months if were lucky he owns a major law firm the glass shop is his pet project I guess he got off a client. The only guy that seems to care about the employees is a sales guy that's the owners best friend and he has meetings with us ever Tuesday and Thursday then emails the owner what was said in the meetings. I figure he would be the best one to approach about it I just don't know how to go about doing it.

Sorry if it's kinda long and rantish I'm laying in bed exhausted from working 10hrs then hanging deer stands an frustrated with this whole situation.

[slonezp]

Go in to the boss and state you case as you did here. Set up the meeting for before work if possible and go in with confidence.

[buzzed bait]

my only advice would be to make the conversation solely about yourself, your accolades and your values.  DO NOT let it venture into the "I'm better than this guy because....." area because that is the dark side of the moon for these conversations....

[RSM789]

If the foreman & G.M. are as bad as you say, chances of getting a raise aren't good.  Incompetent management tend to loses good employees, typically because they reward based on the wrong reasons (i.e., nice guy, fun to be around as opposed to valuable).

 

Who makes the payroll decisions?  Talk to that person & make your case based on the value that you bring to the company.  As buzzed bait wrote, make it solely about yourself & not about others & what they are making.  It also helps to give a specific amount you are requesting for a raise, not just "more" and base that amount on what you are able to produce.  If you are making money for the company & have a competent person deciding on wages, they will want to keep you.

 

While it is always nice for someone to notice your value & reward you for it without you asking, that is akin to getting discovered in Hollywood.  More often than not, you don't "G - E - T" if you don't "A - S - K"

[SirSnookalot]

No one other than you knows what's going on with your job, for me to give advice on a situation where I have no knowledge wouldn't be wise.  I would trust my gut feelings, be very tactful and have a back up plan, things could backfire.

[Lund Explorer]

From your description of the company you work for, they bid out their work based on how many production hours are involved in producing the finished item.  If you provide them with proof that you have increased productivity, then a pay raise is in order.  The amount of that raise should be based on the amount of increase.

 

One other way to skin that cat.  A local company up here pays quarterly bonus checks based on productivity.  An employee that exceeds their quota for that time period is paid extra on a sliding scale matching that productivity. 

[deaknh03]

No one other than you knows what's going on with your job, for me to give advice on a situation where I have no knowledge wouldn't be wise. I would trust my gut feelings, be very tactful and have a back up plan, things could backfire.

exactly what I was thinking..have your resume already out there.

[Jigfishn10]

A couple of things I see is maybe you should wait until you completed your first year, after all its only 2.5 mos away. The other thing is, perhaps you should bend the ear of the salesman first and find out who you should be talking to, or ask some co-workers, it doesn't sound like you know the organizational structure there. If it turns out that your supposed to talk to the GM then I would gain some leverage and secure a position with another company prior to asking him/her for a raise. If he's that much of a "tool" then you could be out of a job real quick. Again, I would wait until you secured a year under your belt and spend that time getting to know the person your suppose to talk to a little better. Get on friendly terms. There's one thing I've observed and heard over the years is that most employers do not like employees asking for a raise prior to their employment anniversary date.

[A-Jay]

I'd say "Value Over Replacement" comes into play here.

 

Unless your employer knows that you can walk away and do better, a raise before your first full year may be a hard sell.

 

Additionally, unless you Know that you are being grossly Under paid & you know you can do better somewhere else, I'd wait.

 

Finally, sounds like they trained you for this job, that's definitely worth something to them and you. 

 

"I've never been late or missed a day for anything other then military obligations to the guard". ~

This is not Superior / Extra performance worthy of higher pay - this is called being reliable. 

So although it's something to take pride in as a man, that's about where it ends most of the time.

 

Slow your roll.  Let it play out a bit. 

 

A-Jay

[clayton86]

The managment here does suck they have lost some good guys because of it and are on the verge of loosing more. It's a small company on the floor it's 18 people 2 of which are part time. 10 on first shift and 8 on second but the shifts over lap 6-230 and then 1130-730.

Managment has no balls for a lack of a better term. I've watched a guy throw his respirator and storm out cussing and throwing stuff because the chop sprayer jammed up. Any where else he woulda been fired or at least suspended something. Nope not here he came in te next day like nothing happened nothing was said to him other then the chopper was fixed.

Guys no call no show CONSTANTLY like a week at a time once or are late 4 out of 5 work days. Never get warnings or written up they come in say they over slept and Larry the foreman says ok no problem and they go to work. Guys made what we call 100s which is a small generator huts they made 20 of them over a 4 week time frame not one was correct. That's where I learned and mastered gel coat repairs because I was told to fix them but not to go over 10 hrs per mold in fixing. The part takes maybe 4 hours to spray, lay up skin layers, foam it and then put finishing layers on. So in my mine if it takes 4 hours to make one new why have me spend 10hrs fixing it driving it to a 14hr job!?!?!? If it was me take the two workers making all the bad parts and make them sweep or do something else. They pulled every hut looked at it shrugged their shoulders and brought it to me to fix.

I blame it entirely on the managment being to soft. I'm gonna talk to them Tuesday after the meeting dan usually find me and talks to me in private to see how productions going anyways so I'll bring up the raise then. I told them a few weeks ago when my trainee quit that I wasnt far behind him and had my resume out and had some offers but for the extra 1.50 I was offered it was a hour each way commute and this place now I can walk to if I had to. They said they want me to have a future here and gave me more responsibility just no pay to go with the extra burden.

We do weekly bonuses also like Lund was saying but it's based on the entire shop not one team or shift or individual. We got it steady for 6 weeks then it dried up and we haven't gotten it in 4 months. It's a extra 125 a week so after tax it's like 95 so it's a nice little bonus IF we get it. My production numbers as of this morning I needed 5250 for the week and I was at 6700 going into today and I'm 45 minutes ahead of schedual today letting me make an extra cabinet worth 1800 and I get 60% of the cost because I don't assemble I just gel coat and lay them up.

[A-Jay]

Every job has it share of challenges, especially in the personnel department.

 

The above certainly sounds like it may be more trouble than it's worth.

 

The "My boss is a Loser" situation rarely gets better with extra pay or more time on the job.

 

You'll still be dealing with the crazies above & below you and if they advance you, you'll be responsible for some of them.  Good Luck with that.

 

So I guess you'll have to ask yourself, Can money buy happiness & job satisfaction ?

 

Your answer may provide you some direction.

 

A-Jay

[aavery2]

If your company has an annual or semi annual wage evaluation process, I would  gather my facts and present it at that time.   I would not use the information in your first example,  while you were able to cut the hours from 700 to 230 and that shows great promise, you still did not meet the standard of 180 hours. While it may be their own fault, through poor biding to win the job,  It is hard to justify a raise based on a job that the company is still losing money on.    You might use it to justify a new position which pays more.

 

I would also be very careful about coming on a public forum and making derogatory statements about your management team.  If only one of them see this I  don't think it will hold well for your future with the company.

 

 

What ever you decide to do, I wish you good luck.

[clayton86]

I don't believe they have evaluations. From the word of everyone on the floor and even the foreman no raises have been handed out in over 4 years. Others have griped about it it in the weekly meetings and they shut us up with the bonus of 125 and say that's more then any raise which is true u would need a 3 dollar an hour raise to equal that but it's not a set thing we do t know of we get it till payday. And then they but us pizza every Wednesday to shut us up also. There's a few of us that are all discussing this at work basically the reliable group of us that care about the company and our products. We all have been calling and applying else where but the problem is the location this place is local there isn't another place close as this. The other one I mentioned before was a contract job and only 10months so it sounds good at first but then it's done

[aavery2]

I think that if I were in your situation that instead of asking for a raise, which sounds like it may be hard to impossible to get.  I would ask for the management team to not only reward for meeting goals, but to hold accountable for poor performance.  Tell them that you are concerned for the company and want to see them excel, and that you also want to be able to meet the established goals so you can earn your bonus consistently.  Let them know that part of the problem is that the management team appears to be inconsistent in regards to holding people accountable for their performance and actions, and that it is taking away from the motivation of the group that is trying to perform at a high level.

 

Ask them to be fair and consistent,  any member of a respectable management team should respect that request.  Remember to not bring it down to a personal level, this person failed to do this and that person done that, keep it in general terms. 

 

Always, always try to be part of the solution, it does not take someone special to point out problems, but it does take someone special to provide and work to  a solution.  This more than anything else is what will get you noticed for a potential raise and promotion.

 

As a member of the Military I know you understand the importance of team.  Surround yourself with like minded people and work as a team to create the environment and influence the change that you are looking for.

 

Best of luck

[Raider Nation Fisher]

CBAs are a good thing. Organize the shop and your wages will go through the roof.

Otherwise go state your case to them. Don't bring up what others are doing or making. If you want tell them "insert shop here", has offered you x amount more to come work for them. That can sometimes make them come off the pocket book.

[clayton86]

I think that if I were in your situation that instead of asking for a raise, which sounds like it may be hard to impossible to get. I would ask for the management team to not only reward for meeting goals, but to hold accountable for poor performance. Tell them that you are concerned for the company and want to see them excel, and that you also want to be able to meet the established goals so you can earn your bonus consistently. Let them know that part of the problem is that the management team appears to be inconsistent in regards to holding people accountable for their performance and actions, and that it is taking away from the motivation of the group that is trying to perform at a high level.

Ask them to be fair and consistent, any member of a respectable management team should respect that request. Remember to not bring it down to a personal level, this person failed to do this and that person done that, keep it in general terms.

Always, always try to be part of the solution, it does not take someone special to point out problems, but it does take someone special to provide and work to a solution. This more than anything else is what will get you noticed for a potential raise and promotion.

As a member of the Military I know you understand the importance of team. Surround yourself with like minded people and work as a team to create the environment and influence the change that you are looking for.

Best of luck

It's all been said in the meetings it's said twice a week we gripe about the foreman saying A and the GM coming out and saying B then the salesmen catches wind and says customer wants C. Foreman usually is the easiest way GM is the cheapest way(usually) and the salesman is what the customer wants. Like for instance this southern Connecticut gas job I'm on foreman said piano hing($30) GM says 5 door hinges( $28) customer says 3 stainless steel with tamper proof hardware spaced 6" apart. We said screw the guys up front were doing it to the blueprint what the customer wants.

We were gonna go to team bonuses since just about everyone is in a 2-3 man team but not everyone was on board with that because me on the chop sprayer can crank out production and make money and some one else hand laying or stick building can't as easily and no one would help others if it was gonna help others goal and not there. It was supposed to be $50 for the individual and $75 if the whole shop met the weekly goal.

The place has a ton of potential the owner says " I would love to pay everyone 20an hr and make this the best place in the county to work" but he's a lawyer and a politician he has made millions telling lies lol. But it does have potential 5 years ago they were only worth 500k in sales last year was 3mil and this year were at 5mil probably gonna hit 6 million. However the building is the same size still all old equipment and still same number of employees.

[deaknh03]

From all the info you gave it sounds like the business model is not sustainable for too long.

[Jigfishn10]

From all the info you gave it sounds like the business model is not sustainable for too long.

 

I agree. The bonus system is just that, a system where you produce to meet an exeed numbers but the quality usually lacks. Give a guy a fair wage and generally he'll take pride in his work and will produce. I say generally because there are a lot of guys out there that just don't earn what they make, it's never enough and there will never be pride in their work. That's just the way it is. Fortunatley, the labor pool is still abundant enough with qualified workers who care, management just has to have courage enough to let these bad apples go.

 

Anyway, just mt 2 cents.

[clayton86]

I agree. The bonus system is just that, a system where you produce to meet an exeed numbers but the quality usually lacks. Give a guy a fair wage and generally he'll take pride in his work and will produce. I say generally because there are a lot of guys out there that just don't earn what they make, it's never enough and there will never be pride in their work. That's just the way it is. Fortunatley, the labor pool is still abundant enough with qualified workers who care, management just has to have courage enough to let these bad apples go.

Anyway, just mt 2 cents.

Exactly this. Second shift usually makes the qouta for them but they do it with poor work and if a job runs out of money so to speak priced at 10 hours but is gonna take 20 they stop at 9 leave it unfinished and start doing stock items like flumes and manhole covers. Gets them the numbers they need but leaves a product unfinished or finished but is gonna be sent back or need repair.

As the one guys puts it there are people in the shop who are not hungry. They do what is on the list and that is it no more and sometimes even less. There's a project running in my department and it's capable of producing 8 "eggs" a day but because it's only scheduled for 6 that's all he does and standa at the desk playing FarmVille on his phone for a hour and a half at the end of the day. I have brought it up to the GM, foreman and even the owner in a phone conference that we start at 6 gelcoated by 7 gelcoat dry and ready at 810 then finished around 9-920. We then go to break give the "eggs" till 1030 then pop 2 and gel coat them and start over. With. Lunch I between we finish the two at 130 giving us 6. I made the suggestion that we pop all 4 giving is 8 in a day and still having time left over and putting us ahead of the shipping and production schedule so we don't rush a day before shipping. This gives us time to QC our product and not rush. It was shot down because a certain employee( the respirator thrower from befor) doesn't feel like we should work that hard. It's not hard work it's just an extra 20minutes in a spray booth with a roller in your hand. The eggs make us $500 in profit and the more we mass produce the more it's profitable. So it makes total sense to just turn around and pop the other two egg molds.

It just blows my mind idk lol

[.ghoti.]

You're saying nothing good at all about this company.

What the %#$^* are you thinking; asking for a raise?

With that attitude you should be looking for job.

[SirSnookalot]

From all the info you gave it sounds like the business model is not sustainable for too long.

I wouldn't agree or disagree without firsthand knowledge of the books.  With all due respect to Clayton the numbers being thrown around and workers' performance may not be entirely accurate.

I don't know how this company operates but in my former business financial records and employee wage information was not shared with workers in the shop. 

Being a lawyer and politician doesn't enter into the equation, pay is based on similar scale through out the industry, his personal fortune has no bearing.

 

I agree with Mr. .Ghoti, even at 50 bucks an hour you won't be happy and still find fault with the company.

[clayton86]

I actually love my job. I may not like how things are ran but it's actually a job I don't mind waking up and going to in the morning.

The shift is awesome 6-230, started with 7 days of PTO, I get to make a variety of different things, always challenges, 50acres of woods in the back I/we can hunt,speaking of hunting season we are allowed to work 4 10 hr days so we get longer weekends to hunt, car troubles no problem they will let you take the company van till your car is fixed, the bonus is nice when we get it, wife kicked ya out need a place to live not a problem either the owner has aptartments he will let you stay in. It's a fiberglass shop that means I have access to everything needed to make a bass boat lol or a canoe which we have done with scraps. We have resin by the 55gal and always have left overs that get thrown out I've been making molds for pouring plastics.

It's not a bad place I like it there like I said there is potential.

I did get a bit of a hint of a raise possibly yesterday when I came in on Saturday to get an extra cabinet made. The GM came back to see me and asked how everything was going told him everything was good. He asked how the cabinet was looking and I just pointed to it and let my work do the talking. He commented on it and said it looked great just trim a little more off so there is less grinding to get it out of the mold. He then said Corey has been looking at the time sheets and production numbers and is taking note of the individuals who put in that extra when it's needed and don't just 8 and skate. He said some changes are being made and that if we move to the new building I will be getting my own chopper and booth and that he hopes I will stick around till the new year for the changes and that those who have been standing out in a good way will be rewarded.

So wait I will it's not like there are other jobs around anyways the economy sucks as well as living in the area I do what is local pays garbage barely over min and it's all factory work assembly line style. This place is local always something different I mean if it's made of fiberglass we have, can and will make it.

[deaknh03]

Good luck I hope it works out well..the perks you just mentioned are very helpful.

[K_Mac]

Interesting thread Clayton. You've been offered much good advice. I have worked both as one of the production team and in management. Your skills and reliability are very important and if you are as good as you say, management knows it. What you have not yet proven is your commitment to the company IMO. I have seen many who do everything right short-term, but over time become part of the problem. Hell I've been that guy. A smart, trusted, hard working guy who is committed to the success of the company makes everyone above in the chain of command look good. Pay your dues and be that go-to guy, whether with this company or another, and money will take care of itself.

One more thing: All jobs have inherent worth. You are limited by that ceiling. With hard work, intelligence, education, and experience you can make more money. Being happy or not on the journey is your choice.

[Helluva_Engineer]

Raises should be brought up during your annual performance review and worked into the annual budget. Keep a record of your successes and try to gain an understanding of how you fit into the company's financial model in order to build a business case for your appropriate compensation. For example, does the company bill fixed fee or t&m? If t&m, what is your FSM vs the company budget? If fixed fee, what is your typical performance related to the project budget man-hours? How does the quality of your work relate to the company average? Re-work costs time and materials and if you have a 97% quality rating vs the company rating of 95% that can mean a lot of contribution to the bottom line in the long run. All of this should play out in annual reviews, don't get ahead of yourself and don't think you're above the economics of the company model.