Should Your Guide Be Fishing?

[SirSnookalot]

Both the type of boat and the target species would play a part in whether I want the guide to fish.  If a guide is working a trolling motor I don't want him casting in front of me, and I don't want to share the bow.  A good chance I would not get involved using guide under those conditions.  When with guide in a center console boat most likely going to his/her honey holes, looking for birds, bait or busting fish, once on fish I don't mind the guide fishing.  Bow or stern doesn't make a difference to me then, I don't want to be on a boat with a bimini top, gets in the way of casting.  Fishing the flats a guide is going to be on the platform poling, the guide fishing doesn't enter into the equation then.

[Driftb]

I guide Fly trips and spin trips on the Upper Delaware river for  trout and smallmouth bass.  I work out of a 16' Clackacraft drift boat.  It has pedestal seats and leaning braces for two anglers.  On a fly fishing trip I rarely fish, unless my guest(s)  ask me to.  I am usually way to busy rowing, tying on new rigs, instructing, netting fish, and keeping a lookout for rising fish, structure, etc.  Occasionally a client will want me to pick up a rod and show them how it's done.  Sometimes they dare me to prove  that the fish will actually eat the fly I have them using.  I kind of hate to do that because I have confidence in my flies and occasionally I cant get the fish to eat it right away and it becomes a time waster.  But usually they hand me their rod and the fish eats that fly on the first cast I make, even if they have been trying to feed it to him for an hour.  These guys don't pay me to humiliate them, so even though I get the satisfaction of being right, it isn't really what I want to  be doing.

 

Smallie fishing is much the same, but the technique is much easier and less intense, so it is much more common for a client to ask me to fish.  But when we pull up on a piece of big fish structure, or a pod of busting  fish, I always point it out to a client and give them first crack at it.  I also let them have second, third, fourth and fifth crack at it.  Usually I don't  have to pick up a rod to establish a pattern.  I have a good idea what will work and I spend the early part of the day rigging rods, and handing them to clients to see what is going to work for them.  As long as they are catching fish, I may not pick up a rod all day.  Occasionally, though, If the fish are refusing topwater, I will pick up a topwater and see if I can get bit.  The clients don't usually want to spend the time with the topwater until they see it is producing well.  Like yesterday, there were fish on top all day, but they would only take a topwater every once in a while. then topwater wouldn't catch another fish for way too long. I tried different baits until afternoon when I threw a sammie and it got bit three casts in a row. My guest put down his jig in favor of topwater.  The rest of the day they threw topwater and had a blast. 

[jeremyryanwebb]

Well....Ive never ran, or been on a bass charter but regardless of species if it is catch and release, the guide should only be fishing to find fish in open water or to demonstrate a technique and then be done with it.  If fishing specific cover the client should have the all throws bc he/she is the priority in catching fish.  I only help run redfish and inshore saltwater charters which is completely different.  When I am polling from the platform on a charter for redfish, im all eyes and paying attention to things around me....not fishing. The only time I will throw a line in is when I am fishing with a client that has no one else on the boat with him except for me and he/she states that they want to take a couple fish home for the frying pan and we are having an incredibly slow day on bites. Still catch and release is the way to go but the ocean is different than the saltwater life cycles.

[SirSnookalot]

Well....Ive never ran, or been on a bass charter but regardless of species if it is catch and release, the guide should only be fishing to find fish in open water or to demonstrate a technique and then be done with it.  If fishing specific cover the client should have the all throws bc he/she is the priority in catching fish.  I only help run redfish and inshore saltwater charters which is completely different.  When I am polling from the platform on a charter for redfish, im all eyes and paying attention to things around me....not fishing. The only time I will throw a line in is when I am fishing with a client that has no one else on the boat with him except for me and he/she states that they want to take a couple fish home for the frying pan and we are having an incredibly slow day on bites. Still catch and release is the way to go but the ocean is different than the saltwater life cycles.

Well said.

I may add that situations arise where the guide or charter captain has to be at the helm to maneuver the boat when a fish is on.

Can't say how many times when out in a private boat we get cut off on the engine or trim tabs.  A guide does more than find fish, their boatsmanship comes into play quite often in landing fish.

[buzzed bait]

I think it's fair to ask the guide up front if they are teaching you how to catch fish or if they are driving you around to hot spots to catch fish.  because frankly i would have just assumed that hiring a guide was about hiring someone to put you on fish.  for me, it would generally only be a scenario where i've never fished that lake before and wouldn't have a chance to fish it again so a guide would maximize my time. 

lesson learned from this post though about all the questions to ask a guide before you settle on one.

[Josh Smith]

I would absolutely expect a guide to fish if he answered the question "What works best in this lake?"

 

I don't use guides, and will gladly take anyone fishing if they want to learn.  This lake I've been working on all year produces but it's the most picky lake I've ever seen. 

 

My mom is a teacher, and a good portion of my family are teachers.  I'd be one but for the politics.  I teach a certain rifle to people; that's my main vocation.  The stuff I make for that rifle is the side benefit.  If a person cannot or will not be taught, I move on.  If a person knows as much as I do, we exchange info.

 

Same with fishing.  Not many can teach me about the guns I'm interested in.  I'm sure there are many who can teach me about fishing.

 

Thing is, they have to show they know more than I do.  Anyone can call himself a guide and anyone can have a resume.  If the guide is not catching more and better than I am, I am likely to wonder about him.

 

Were I invited to fish with, say, Martin, Dance, or Houston; or even someone newer like Van Dam, I'd take it for granted they know more than me.  Those first three have been pro longer than I've been alive!  If you can make a living fishing, then I figure you know what you're doing.

 

If I were to guide a person on this lake that I've been working on, I'd probably tell him something like this:  "I can show you spots where there are usually bass.  I can suggest what lures to try, and show you the action if you want.  I will not make any guarantees that you'll catch fish.  I might say something like 'see that point?  Cast onto the bank -- careful, don't get hung up! -- and work that jig down the shelf'.  If you don't want to take that advice or cast several times and can't catch anything, don't get mad if I try after you give up.  Meantime, I'll be fishing another spot you've already fished or trying a new one where there shouldn't be fish but might just be."

 

This is assuming someone new to fishing.

 

Similar to the gun thing, if the person demonstrates an unwillingness to learn, or an equal or superior knowledge to my own, I'll just say something like, "There's a rock shelf off that point and the bass critters in this lake like crawdaddies and bass and sunfish fry for forage."

 

If I hired someone to guide me, I'd appreciate a similar approach.

 

In other words, don't insult a customer's knowledge, but don't assume knowledge where it doesn't exist, either.

 

Regards,

 

Josh 

[CDobber]

I'm going on a muskie charter in the morning.  I don't target the fish but will be excited to try, especially with help from a pro if/when I land one.  I'm not a big fan of toothy critters and haven't handled many fishing solo.

 

I will not care one way or the other if the guide fishes tomorrow.  I am not attempting to learn techniques from him or lure presentation, or I'd be watching and listening closely.  If it were a bass charter (as it was originally going to be), it would be way different, though I still wouldn't be offended if he were fishing or not.....though I would be grilling him/her much more for what he is looking for depth/structure wise, presentation, specific locations he's going to (and mentally noting them to return with my pontoon), etc.  Tomorrow is all about doing something different and enjoying the morning, albeit with temps 25-30 degrees below average to start.  I hope to get at least one for the sake of checking yet another species off my list.

 

I guess it really depends on the situation and the attitude and opinions of the paying customer, and if one is in doubt prior, ask questions before booking.

[flipin4bass]

I think this is something that should be discussed with the guide before your trip. I've used a guide when I'm fishing a large lake for the first time. It saves me a lot of time and really helps on subsequent trips I'll take to the lake in the future. The last guide I used was really helpful and not only turned me on to new baits and techniques, but also showed where a lot of good structure was located. He also showed where the hazards were located. (submerged boulders, etc.) I've learned a lot over the years by watching guides fish from the back of the boat.

[Dwight Hottle]

Imagine the personal satisfaction when you outfish your guide from the back of the boat. Now that's a challenge.

[Driftb]

As soon as one of my clients takes a cast, as a guide I am fishing, even if I never pick up a rod.  I'll watch him fish and if he starts catching fish, it'll be a while before I take a cast.  If he doesn't  get bit, I'll watch him and give him some coaching.  Some guys don't want to hear it though.  If not, I may try the same lure to see if it's my client's technique or the  lure that's lacking.  If I don't get bit in five or so minutes, I try another lure until I find something that works. 

 

If my guest catches fish right away, I'll let him fish that lure. I may pick up a lure I think will appeal to bigger fish in a while, though.  If that gets attention, I'll offer it to the client.

[ColdSVT]

I fished with the same guide many times in FL for tarpon, reds and snook. On the the red and snook trips i told him id be dissapointed if he didnt fish with me. He got a kick out of me a few times. He was also cool with me bringing my gear along ( rods/reels) ironically we both prefered the croix tidemasters with stradics lol. I laughed when he saw my rigs and then showed me five or six just like mine. Needless to say we hit off well from the first charter

On the tarpon trips it was however all about me!

[missouribigbass]

I'd want my guide to fish. Put us on some fish and let's get some in the boat. Who cares as long as your on the water having fun.

[faygo1979]

My buddy and I paid a local bass pro to take us out last year and he fished the whole time.

I actually would rather than be the case.  Someone can explain how to catch fish all they want.  But  watching and asking questions while he was pulling in fish was worth the price to be.

 

We still walked away with about 20 catches each for 3 hours or so. 

[OntarioFishingGuy]

As long as I am catching fish, I'll be happy. If not, it's the captains call if he wants to fish and see if he can put together a pattern, or let me keep fishing hoping that I will catch a fish. He is the expert, not me, so of he wants to fish he can go right ahead. Either way, I don't get as much enjoyment from catching a fish as I do seeing a fish. As long as there are fish being caught I'll be happy.

[mjseverson24]

If I hired a bass guide ( which i would if i went south to a large reservoir for the first time) I would want him to fish hard and catch as many fish as he can and show me the basic lay outs and patterns of that specific system. I dont care about catching a million fish that day, what I would want is just a basic idea of what the fish are doing and why, also i would want to know why the guide chose the spots and what is his philosophy is on how to best present the bait to the fish. you can either spend 400-500 dollars for one day of great fishing with lots of memories and fun, or you can learn something and make that 400 dollars an investment that will help you to catch fish in the future. i think it is ridiculous that the neighbor got mad that the guide was fishing, first off the guide is used to controlling the boat based on how his lure is positioned in and around structure, without a rod in hand how will he be able to keep the boat positioned properly, and or keep it at the right speed without going to fast. also it help keep you motivated if you know you are on and around fish as the guide is catching them...

 

Mitch

[Scott F]

The guide's job is to do everything he can to make sure each guest has a good time. If that means he doesn't fish at all with some, or fishes all the time with others, whatever it takes. If I'm paying, the guide doesn't touch a rod. When you are paying, he should do what you want.  

[Basswhippa]

Answer is ... it depends.

 

There is a classic guide fishing post by a young man.   He had come from up north and had a baseball injury.  His present for all he had endured was a guided trip to Guntersville Lake.

 

He got to watch Alex Davis "Spinnerbait Kid" catch an 8 pounder.  Ha.  He had a great attitude.  He said he never had seen one that big before and that was kind of neat.  That said, I'm sure he would have rather caught it.   I never could tell if he actually had the skills to catch the fish.