Should Your Guide Be Fishing?

[papajoe222]

The reason I ask is that a neighbor returned early today from a guided trip to a lake that I fish occasionally. It was a drop-dead beautiful day and I didn't expect his return until later in the evening.  Anyway, I asked why his early return as he is elderly and his wife isn't in the best of health.  He replied that he got ticked off when his guide pulled up to the first spot of the day and after rigging him up and a short tutorial on the spot and technique, picked up a rod and began fishing from the back of the boat.  He politely told the quide, he said,  that he wasn't paying for the guide to fish and for him to retun him to the launch.  Words were exchanged (I have no idea what was said), tempers flared and my neighbor refused to pay for services as, in his words: " I didn't get any service, all I got was someone that wanted to fish and rip me off for $275." 

I attempted to tell him that this practice is very commonplace when attempting to find not only active fish, but a presentation that works.  His reply was that I'd been snowballed on more than one occasion by that BS and no way was he buying into it. He uses a charter guide on a regular basis, but has never used one for bass fishing.

Your thoughts. 

[F14A-B]

I have used a few guides in my day... Never once did I personally feel threated by my guide fishing, and a couple times they asked if I minded...

It is a non- issue for me...

 

 

[flyfisher]

I don't think it is something that should just happen without some discussion on the matter with the client.  The only guide i ever went out with was Bob Clouser on the Susky and he didn't fish at all except to get a fish on the line and hand me the rod to reel it in, i was about 8 or 9 at the time.  When i was a guide flyfishing i never fished but one time when i had some clients from India who said they wanted to watch me fish while they took a break.

[stk]

I think for bass fishing guide trips it would be beneficial for additional rods in the water until a pattern is found. I've never been on a bass fishing guide trip but I wouldn't have a problem with this either.

[EmersonFish]

Never used a bass fishing guide, but I've always assumed they did some fishing to establish a pattern. It would be different if he got it figured out, and just kept on casting; catching a bunch of fish instead of making sure the clients got on 'em. Now with other kinds of fishing, the guide doesn't need his own rod. I wouldn't expect a striper or catfish guide to grab a rod out of a holder and catch fish when a client could get it.

 

In this case, maybe the guide was not a very good communicator; or maybe the client was completely irrational. In any case, it didn't work out.

[Long Mike]

Until my guide put me on the fish, I would not at all expect him to be fishing himself.  It happened to me once at Lake Fork.  At about 10:00 A.M. I told him to take me back to the launch.  It became obvious that he wanted me to pay for his fishing trip.  I should have known better.  I asked the guy at the front desk of the motel I was was staying in for a guide recommendation.

[RSM789]

I have never used a guide, but for me it would depend on how & where we were fishing.  If it was a situation where we were targeting loner fish in isolated spots & he was in the front of the boat, then I would have a problem with it.  However, if we were fishing deep water structure or for schooling fish, I would prefer he fish.  We could use different lures or techniques to see which is currently working better and often multiple people fishing the same school can keep them fired up.

 

As I thought about this, I don't think I would ever hire a guide for LMB fishing.  Part of the fun for me is figuring out where they are & how to catch them.  I know enough about where to look during different times of the year and am versatile enough to figure out how to catch them once I find them.  Plus I don't want someone else netting my fish, I want to grab him/her by the lip!! (the fish, not the guide).  If I wanted to learn something new or was aware that I should be using a technique that I don't have a need for locally ( such as using a chatterbait in grass), then a guide would be of interest.  Otherwise I would kind of feel like the 6 year old who gets handed the pole after dad set the hook.

[Lund Explorer]

The reason I ask is that a neighbor returned early today from a guided trip to a lake that I fish occasionally. It was a drop-dead beautiful day and I didn't expect his return until later in the evening.  Anyway, I asked why his early return as he is elderly and his wife isn't in the best of health.  He replied that he got ticked off when his guide pulled up to the first spot of the day and after rigging him up and a short tutorial on the spot and technique, picked up a rod and began fishing from the back of the boat.  He politely told the quide, he said,  that he wasn't paying for the guide to fish and for him to retun him to the launch.  Words were exchanged (I have no idea what was said), tempers flared and my neighbor refused to pay for services as, in his words: " I didn't get any service, all I got was someone that wanted to fish and rip me off for $275." 

I attempted to tell him that this practice is very commonplace when attempting to find not only active fish, but a presentation that works.  His reply was that I'd been snowballed on more than one occasion by that BS and no way was he buying into it. He uses a charter guide on a regular basis, but has never used one for bass fishing.

Your thoughts. 

 

Imagine how much easier it would have been if your neighbor had discussed this issue with the guide when he booked his trip?

[SirSnookalot]

I've been on head boats where the Captain fishes, they are selling the fish, I don't much care for that.  Most guides I've been with do not fish.  One guide in particular out of Ft. Pierce does fish with us, but asks first.  This guy is nothing short of sensational, don't mind him fishing at all, this guy is going to teach you something.

[BassinLou]

The only time I have gone on a guided trip, I encouraged my guide to fish. He is on his home turf, and as soon as he found a pattern, then it benefited me because it gave me an idea of the fish in that area.

[Catch and Grease]

I would be okay with it to an extent, as long as they are doing their best to put me on fish.

[frogflogger]

I never fished except to show a technique - frog fishing in particular, if they were rookies, I would show them the cast and retrieve then let them have at it. After that I would suggest different cadences if needed.

[gulfcaptain]

I just want to know what kind of guide doesn't take payment before the trip starts?  All that should have been worked out before leaving the ramp.  If you don't want him fishing then express that before you get on the water. If he doesn't fish and you can't catch them.....don't blame the man either because you told him not to fish....YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN.  Then bad mouth him because you couldn't catch anything.  I would have gratefully returned to the ramp as requested, dropped him off, put my boat on the trailer, wished him a safe drive home, but sorry, if there had been a contract and you are going to be bitter like that, you're not getting anything back because you are bitter and just wasted a day of my time.  I want the guide to fish, I want to see what he is doing on his waters, he is out there everyday making a living, who better to see what's working then the guy that "fishes" for a living.  I fished, but then I also handed most of my fish off to customers once they were hooked if conditions were tough, or just to prove a point if they weren't listening to my professional advice on how to get bit...can't catch them unless you get a bite....so to blow up right off the bat like your friend did, honestly I would have taken him back myself and given him his money before hand and since I was already there......gone fishing.

[roadwarrior]

I want the guide fishing to find the bass and what's working, but then that's it...

After fishing with many guides for more than a decade I have only had two that

didn't work out. We still paid and tipped, but will never fish with them again. On

the otherhand, I have been fishing with Tim "Hotdawg" Curtis on the White River

since around 2001.

 http://www.hotdawgguideservice.com/

 

The only guide that I have hired that compares with Dawg is

Captain James Ray "Cuda" Scheer.

http://cocodrieinsidecharters.com/charter-fishing.html

[Smokinal]

My buddy and I hired a big name down on Falcon for our first guided trip of our lives. We did not think to ask about him fishing so that's our bad. But, we were both very dissapointed in the way he treated us. He would cast first, with us, on new spots we would come into and he back boated us on most occasions. We definitely felt like we paid him $400 per day (for 5 days mind you) to have him let us go fishing with him.

I learned a lot from that trip though. If I was a guide, it would be clear that the only times I would fish would be if the fishing was extremely tough that day, so I could possibly help find a pattern. Or, if the fishing was just phenomenal, I might like to catch a few. But if it's mediokre, I'd let them catch anything that would bite. In any occasion though, I would want my client taking the first 1/2 hr on a spot before I fished at all. I'm a believer that the largest and most active fish on a given spot bite first so the guide should not cast until the clients have hammered it first.

[Felix77]

My one and only guide experience included a veteran of the FLW Tour.  He fished to try to find them.  In hindsight he worked extremely hard to find the fish that day and made my experience very memorable.  I guess it depends on their intent with the fishing.  If they just throw you a lure and then go ahead to fish completely ignoring you then I would have a problem too.

[Ratherbfishing]

When a guide enters a contractual agreement to take YOU fishing and to assist YOU in catching fish, their entire day should be with the thought of putting YOU on fish and then helping YOU catch them.  Sometimes, particularly when the fishing isn't easy, a guide may feel compelled to fish some in order to establish a pattern and find productive cover.  BUT when they do so, they need to communicate this intent/behavior with the client and even go as far as determining if this is acceptable.  Personally, I don't want to pay hard earned money in order for someone ELSE to fish.

[gulfcaptain]

Although I've never hired someone to take me bass fishing, I would expect to be on the front deck fishing with him. I would want him explaining to me where to pitch the bait etc as so my day would be great, but wouldn't mind if he was fishing as well next to me.  But I'd expect to share the front of the boat and fish as a team.  But then this would be communicated prior to me ever hiring them.  Can't get mad at someone if you never asked the question and just expect them to read your mind.

[WIGuide]

As a guide, I do fish and there are a few reasons that I do. First and foremost is that a lot of people who hire a guide have limited fishing experience. Yes you can tell them what to do and how they should work a bait, but a lot of times it's still really hard to tell if you're around fish. I can only do so much instructing, so I feel I need to fish to be able to figure out the pattern for the day. Secondly, some people are just better visual learners. If they watch you for a while they might have a better understanding of what you're doing or trying to accomplish. I will say though that I do only fish to establish a pattern, and once I do I'll stop with the exception of panfishing. There I fish all the time so the customer can get extra fish out of it, and also so there's an extra pole ready to go when one needs to be re-baited or gets tangled. I can just hand it to them and they can stay fishing the whole time while I take care of any problems. 

 

I don't think a guide should just fish the whole time though, and the focus should definitely be on the clients. 

[geo g]

If I am fishing alone with a guide I would not care if he were fishing along with me.  I can watch what he is doing and learn from his technique.  If I am with my children I would want the guide to help with the kids.  I have had several great experiences on Lake Erie with guides.

[Jd_Phillips_Fishin]

I would't have a problem with it. Actually, I'd want him fishing so we can get a pattern faster.

[FL Bass Abducter]

I think the guide NOT fishing and NOT helping the clients find what the best pattern/lure is, is a fantastic idea.   I guess what the OP neighbor expected was just a boat ride/rental and let the neighbor figure it out????

 

Now, once the pattern/lure is established, the guide needs to BTF off, and allow the clients to do their thing and of course offer guidance IF the clients will LISTEN, which in 75% of the cases, is not going to happen. PERIOD.

[CDMeyer]

I agree with roadwarrior

 

I want the guide fishing to find the bass and what's working, but then that's it...

After fishing with many guides for more than a decade I have only had two that

didn't work out. We still paid and tipped, but will never fish with them again. On

the otherhand, I have been fishing with Tim "Hotdawg" Curtis on the White River

since around 2001.

 http://www.hotdawgguideservice.com/

 

The only guide that I have hired that compares with Dawg is

Captain James Ray "Cuda" Scheer.

http://cocodrieinsidecharters.com/charter-fishing.html

I totally agree I want my guide fishing in the begging to help me catch fish, sometimes that could fire a school up.  Then once we get on them I would want him to stop

[Tim Kelly]

The best way of becoming a better angler is to fish with someone better than you. Amazing how much you learn.

 

If you just want someone to put you on the spots, I suppose you're looking for something else though, and maybe the guide shouldn't fish. But if he doesn't fish and you're not catching he would need to have a go to make sure the fish aren't there or biting, or whether you're just rubbish at catching them!

[hatrix]

The best way of becoming a better angler is to fish with someone better than you. Amazing how much you learn.

 

If you just want someone to put you on the spots, I suppose you're looking for something else though, and maybe the guide shouldn't fish. But if he doesn't fish and you're not catching he would need to have a go to make sure the fish aren't there or biting, or whether you're just rubbish at catching them!

 

That is so true for just about anything. 

 

I doubt I would care much if they fished. I would have a problem though if we were trolling along or something and they guy is snaking all the prime spots first. I would not be much of a fan if he was doing that. Even if it was for some kind of pattern.