Guide, Charge Or Comp That Is The Question!

[gulfcaptain]

So just wondering for all those that think you shouldn't pay if you don't catch a fish.......Do you tip the guide or do you stiff him because of the tough fishing conditions?

[FL Bass Abducter]

I've taken clients out that didn't have the skills to catch a fish on the best of days. So does that mean they shouldn't have to pay because they suck at fishing?

[geo g]

In my opinion part of a quality guide's job is to teach the client how to be successful on a body of water. Great fisherman don't often hire guides, except on unfamiliar lakes. The novice with a desire is most often the one shelling out the cash for a great fishing experience. Not all are guides are great teachers, the ones that are, are kept busy, and some just suck as guides!

[Driftb]

Just because I can teach a skill, it doesn't mean someone becomes proficient at it without practice.  Can a coach make a guy into a good football player in a day?

 

Great fisherman don't often hire guides, except on unfamiliar lakes.

What gives you that idea?  There are plenty of great fishermen that don't want to bother to have a boat anymore. Three quarters of my business is taking moderately well to do, smart experienced anglers fishing. They know that they can spend their valuable, limited time fishing instead of washing, maintaining, repairing, getting in trouble, and dealing with towing, launching, registering, insuring and storing boats. They don't need a tow vehicle, They show up and fish.  Everything is ready for them, including rods, the right  flies and lures, and lunch. They can just get in the boat, and they know that I will put  them on fish. If they want to fish somewhere else, Like Russia, Mexico, Montana, which a lot of these guys do, they do that too, and usually with a guide.  Unless they don't need a boat to fish where they are going.   I have seen quite a few guys buy a boat, only to sell it a year or two later and go back to fishing with a guide.  So a guy who has the bucks can fish a dozen times a year with no hassle and no overhead.  Most of them split the trip with a friend, so the cost is probably cheaper than owning a boat anyway.

[Huntrava]

I can offer an opinion from the standpoint of a nonprofessional.

 

If I hired a guide and didn't catch any fish I probably wouldn't use the guide again.  Regardless of what the contract says, getting skunked, then footing the bill isn't going to make for a good memory.  I'd probably shop around for another guide unless there was an incentive to return.  

 

Just my .02.  Doesn't mean it's right.  

[hoosierbass07]

 I would like to pay a guide to take me fishing on the Mosquito Lagoon down near Orlando some in the next few years.  There are two guides I'm looking at.  Funny, I remember last year looking at one of their sites and they offered a no fish no pay option but I can't find that now.  Now they both want around $520 for a full day of fishing but I don't see the no fish/no pay option.  I would rather pay a little more and have a no fish/no pay option.  If I'm going to pay $500 or more for a fishing guide/charter I better catch at least one decent sized fish, even if they have to put on scuba gear and dive down and put a fish on my hook! 

[Lund Explorer]

So just wondering for all those that think you shouldn't pay if you don't catch a fish.......Do you tip the guide or do you stiff him because of the tough fishing conditions?

 

I couldn't tell you how many times I've gone out with a guide or on a charter trip, but there was only once when I was tempted to not pay.  When it comes to paying a tip, the amount paid is based on the service provided and never on the conditions.  Of course, it goes a long ways if you actually talk to the guide/charter captain before you book your trip.

 

When I've hired a guide, my primary purpose was to learn something at a faster pace than I would have on my own.  It doesn't matter if its the first day of a week long fly-in trip to Ontario, or a day on a southern bass lake.  I come right out and tell them that I'm not looking for their hotspots, and honestly tell them I will be returning to the spots we'll fish during the trip.  I give them option to tell me to look somewhere else if they are afraid I'll burn their spots. 

 

When I book a charter trip such as a salmon boat on Lake Michigan, I tell the captain before we book that I want a hands-on experience.  I want to learn and participate in setting the lines, netting the fish, and I may even want to sit at the helm for a short time.  Most full day trips have a slow time, and that's when I want to be sitting on the bridge talking about fishing. 

 

To me, it all boils down to the experience, and not what comes over the side (or backend) of the boat or ends up as filets to take home.  The better time I have, the more I'm willing to express my appreciation.  But it all starts long before the day of the trip. 

[SirSnookalot]

Being in the manufacturing world I have seen jobs go awry and cost the company lots of money, I've yet to hear an employee say "take it out of my check".  People expect to be paid on their job and so does a guide.  A guide puts his/her time (I do know of a female guide, very hightly rated too) and should be paid for their efforts.  Countless number of variables can take place to slow the bite, not the guides fault.

I have seen no fish no pay, that said I may not have caught sailfish but always catch something.  Even down in the backcountry of Florida both bonefish and permit can be hard to comeby, it's rare one won't catch trout, snook, redfish and shark there.

There have been guides I didn't care to go with a second time, maybe I didn't like his personality.

[Sam]

I have bass fished with a lot of guides and have paid them all, no matter who catches what or if you don't catch anything.

 

You are paying for their time and services.

 

If a client does not catch anything and is disappointed you can always give them another trip.

 

Some people do not understand bass fishing and expect to catch a fish on every cast. If they want to do this then they need to go saltwater fishing.

 

I have murdered them with a guide and then have gotten skunked with a guide.

 

But it is the reason you go with a guide that is the most important.

 

I go to find places to fish in the future.  Guides know the "honey holes" and other places to fish and if you keep your mouth closed and your eyes and ears open a guide can be an excellent resource for future fishing adventures.

 

So to answer your question: yes, comp them if they are very upset or do not catch anything. Otherwise it is part of the game.

[gulfcaptain]

I can offer an opinion from the standpoint of a nonprofessional.

 

If I hired a guide and didn't catch any fish I probably wouldn't use the guide again.  Regardless of what the contract says, getting skunked, then footing the bill isn't going to make for a good memory.  I'd probably shop around for another guide unless there was an incentive to return.  

 

Just my .02.  Doesn't mean it's right.  

Actually you pay before you fish. So you would be footing the bill before that and if you cancel your trip after the stated amount of time you will probably loose half of your payment as well.  And if you only base the quality of your trip on what you catch and not the service that was rendered, then honestly from a prosfesional point, I wouldn't want a return trip from you anyways.  I have had customers that have had tough trips (mind you I ran both 6pack and charter boats on the west coast), did everything in my power to make it the best experience I could, caught fish although not the targeted fish fish we were after, If I had done everything in my power to show you great service, worked hard, fished hard, stayed out longer then planned to try and it just didn't work and the fish didn't want to bite.....then you want a discount on top of that as well as I'm sure you would probably not be very gratious... WHY WOULD I WANT A RETURN TRIP FROM THIS KIND OF CUSTOMER?.....had one customer that was ticked at my bosss who then took it out on myself and my crew, which I wouldn't have taken him fishing again if he paid me too nor would any of the other charter captains I new as they don't want a customer like that either as it wastes their time as well as costing them money to operate. Just remember it is a two way street, a guide will always do their best to make sure you have the best experience you can, if they don't they won't stay in business very long.  Great guides have full calenders because they know how to treat their customers and fill their dates with repeat customers who expect the great service and profesionalism their guides provide(weather or not they are catching fish).....it becomes a more personal arrangement where you feel you are taking an old friend out to fish.  And if the guide is catching fish and you're not because you refuse or just can't catch them how is that his fault that now you should get a comp'd trip.  Sorry, a contract is a contract.  Funny thing is not one person will put it out if they would ask for a comp but won't answer if they would tip the guide.  If I'm going to pay someone to take me fishing, I expect great costomer service and a safe operation, fishing comes second and it's a bonus if we experience great fishing.  I only hold the guide accountable for what he can control. Just like that old saying, you can lead a horse to water you can't make him drink.....you can go fishing and park on them, but you can't make them bite.  Sorry guys, stop being cheap and pay the man for his services.  If he was a crappy guide, non professional, and didn't treat you well, still pay the man, just don't fish with him again. I personally wouldn't hire a guide again even if I had a great fishing trip but he was an A$$H@LE and had crappy customer service skills, and was unprofessional. I'd pay him, tip him....a far amount mind you maybe not as much had he not been ^^^ and look aroud for someone in the area if I wanted to fish that area again to hire instead.

[Ratherbfishing]

As far as paying a guide goes, just do it.  If the experience was poor, just don't use him (or her) again.  With regards to a TIP, that's another story altogether.  My thinking is this:  IF you as a guide are factoring in the tip as what's necessary to meet basic living and equipment expenses, than you are charging too little in the first place.  If you think a tip is simply what's coming to you (regardless of your performance), sorry charlie.  I've tipped well for things and at times I've scarcely tipped at all but in each instance, there were reasons for it.

[Huntrava]

Actually you pay before you fish. So you would be footing the bill before that and if you cancel your trip after the stated amount of time you will probably loose half of your payment as well.  And if you only base the quality of your trip on what you catch and not the service that was rendered, then honestly from a prosfesional point, I wouldn't want a return trip from you anyways......then you want a discount on top of that as well as I'm sure you would probably not be very gratious... WHY WOULD I WANT A RETURN TRIP FROM THIS KIND OF CUSTOMER?

 

True enough, but my point wasn't whether to pay the guide or not.  Of course the guide will get paid.  I'd tip him too.  Anything less would be dishonest.

 

The contract part just determines what both parties expect from the transaction, but it doesn't determine whether I'll be a return customer.  The question is already hypothetical without getting into whether the customer "can't catch" or "won't catch" or "refuses to catch" fish, or whether the guide stays out longer, tries harder, is an old friend, etc etc.  If I am a first-time customer, and the guide provides the services specified in the contract (nothing more, nothing less), and nobody catches any fish, would I return?  Do I pay?  Of course.  Do I tip?  Of course.  Do I use the guide again?  Maybe, probably not.  Why should I? 

[gulfcaptain]

  Do I use the guide again?  Maybe, probably not.  Why should I? 

I agree totally with your response, truthful, honest, and it is what it is.  #1, most people before they hire a guide look at his counts to see what he has been catching or what the reports are.  So for those first time customers, always keep in contact with the guide or company you're using so you know what the conditions are and what to expect.  If the guide can't return your email, or a phone call he has lack of customer service skills and would send a red flag in my opionion. Now, should you use him again?  If the fishing had been tough for the past few days/weeks...etc and it was a hard day, well you new upfront what was going on when you got there.  If his success rate is normally good to above average and it was a down day, then well was his work ethic?  Did he try everything he could think of to put you on fish?  Were you on fish but they wouldn't bite? If he did everything he could and I could see he was working hard to try and gt me on the fish, but it just wasn't happening, ran a good operation, and was friendly and explained everything as we were fishing through the day, yes I would go back. Catching fish isn't always the only reason to re-hire someone to take you fishing.  The personal touches that they put into their business "outside" the contract is what makes a guide great and his customers come back.  The great part about our customer service business, we all have the right to go somewhere else if we think we weren't treated well.  But you still have to pay the man for his services weather you caught fish or not.  

[Huntrava]

Catching fish isn't always the only reason to re-hire someone to take you fishing.  The personal touches that they put into their business "outside" the contract is what makes a guide great and his customers come back.  The great part about our customer service business, we all have the right to go somewhere else if we think we weren't treated well.  But you still have to pay the man for his services weather you caught fish or not.  

 

True enough!

[geo g]

I totally agree, as a Guide if you work hard for the client, teacher them about the ecosystem, and how to best catch fish in the pond, the guide should be compensated for providing a rewarding experience.  Its not solely about catching fish, but rather about a positive professional experience.   Your paying for his expertise and knowledge, as well as the use of equipment. 

[FL Bass Abducter]

In my opinion part of a quality guide's job is to teach the client how to be successful on a body of water. Great fisherman don't often hire guides, except on unfamiliar lakes. The novice with a desire is most often the one shelling out the cash for a great fishing experience. Not all are guides are great teachers, the ones that are, are kept busy, and some just suck as guides!

I respectfully disagree. A LOT of people are set in their ways and refuse to do what they need to do to catch fish. They're "untrainable" so to speak. They won't listen. PERIOD.

[F14A-B]

No fish no pay was my rule for near 20 yrs.

Yes, many of the Florida Guides use to guarantee a 10 pd. LMB or no pay... Wow.. Times sure seem different now though.

[K_Mac]

The last thing I would want from a guide is him worried about putting a dink in the boat. I can find dinks. I have only fished with a guide once. He put us in the right spots, gave clear instructions, and worked hard to give us a great shot. Catching fish was up to me. He was worth every penny.

I have learned over the years that there are few guarantees in life. I have been silly enough to "guarantee" fish to non-fishing friends on lakes where I knew that fish were biting. I no longer do that! There are times when I am confident I will catch fish, and if you're with me I will work harder putting you on fish than me. If you are a skilled fisherman in those situations we will both catch fish. If you are not...

[hatrix]

I guess it would depend what you were on the charter for. I have only been on a few in my life and it was for walleye when I was young and we caught fish. I would probably never be on one unless it was some ocean type thing maybe looking for marlin or something. Even then nothing is for sure and I am sure they tried there best. Now if I went on one out on Erie for say perch like sooooo many people do and didn't catch any thing then we have a problem. Even walleye you had probably better catch some or you maybe don't belong out there doing charters.

[hatrix]

Some of the charter though out on Erie are on point all the time. Lots of guys including me or whoever we are out with will just get on the radio and ask them. They are out every day all day and know where fish are. The Linda Mae is a great example of this when it comes to perch. But I would never pay the $40 or whatever to fish a pontoon boat with 30 people on it for some perch. I think that boat launches from Wild Wood if i remember.

[geo g]

I respectfully disagree. A LOT of people are set in their ways and refuse to do what they need to do to catch fish. They're "untrainable" so to speak. They won't listen. PERIOD.

 

 

If you are a guide, and this is your opinion about a lot of your paying clients who you call "untrainable", its time to find a new occupation!

[FL Bass Abducter]

If you are a guide, and this is your opinion about a lot of your paying clients who you call "untrainable", its time to find a new occupation!

 

 

Obviously, you have never been a guide. I will leave it at that..............

 

[buzzed bait]

If you are a guide, and this is your opinion about a lot of your paying clients who you call "untrainable", its time to find a new occupation!

 

couldn't agree more man....

same applies to managers, teachers, coaches, etc.  if you say someone is untrainable, it is you that is stubborn....

and man if someone is paying you $400-$500 per day to fish you should have a much better attitude than this "guide" is displaying....

[frogflogger]

One of my early mentors in the guide game told me if the clients are catching fish and laughing you've done your job. You're being paid to share and teach something you love, if you don't love it you're in the wrong job.

For myself it was a treat to watch a father and son who got to spend very little time together in their lives, catch fish and laugh and high five each other. Even with the long hours I felt lucky and privileged.

[buzzed bait]

One of my early mentors in the guide game told me if the clients are catching fish and laughing you've done your job. You're being paid to share and teach something you love, if you don't love it you're in the wrong job.

For myself it was a treat to watch a father and son who got to spend very little time together in their lives, catch fish and laugh and high five each other. Even with the long hours I felt lucky and privileged.

 

you sound like a guide that i would enjoy booking, contrary to the other "guide" in this post.  the fact that you say you enjoy seeing others having a good time means your head and heart are in the right place, and the fact you get paid on top of that???  awesome....

my dad and i spend very very little time together, but when we do it is generally involving fishing or hunting something.  Those are some of the best times i can remember, the fact that you are there to facilitate and make those experiences happen for others has to be a rewarding experience all in itself!