Misconceptions About Catching Big Bass!!

[RSM789]

If CA never had FLMB transplanted into our lakes back in the early 70's (1959 was the first in San Diego lakes) swimbaits may have never been developed...Bass are bass, but FLMB are different from NLMB, try to keep that in mind when using swimbaits. Select a swimmer that represents that baitfish the bass are looking for, size and shape is important.

Tom

That plays into the location argument, in this case "location" meaning the body of water. 

 

For example, there are 2 small private lakes here in Orange County, CA that are less than 5 miles away from each other - Lake Mission Viejo & Lake Forest.  Both are "development" lakes built in the 1970's to help sell homes but that is their only similarity.  Mission Viejo is gin clear, over 50 ft. deep at the dam, has FLMB and stocks rainbow trout in the winter.  They don't allow fishing within 30 feet of any private dock and have a full time marine biologist on staff.  Lake Forest has much less visibility thanks to runoff from the street, deepest spot is 12 feet, has NLMB and hasn't received a stocking of any fish for decades.  It has the feel of a pond more than a lake.

 

Mission Viejo regularly pumps out DD bass, including the 13th largest ever, a 19.7 in 2006.  It is a big bass factory.  Lake Forest on the other hand produces maybe 1 or 2 fish over 8lbs per year, even though it has a healthy bass population (main forage is bluegill).  While a bigger bait will increase your chance to catch a pig at Lake Forest, your odds increase exponentially if you instead fish Mission Viejo.  You can't catch what isn't there.

 

I am not trying to say that the baits don't make a difference, they do as long as you keep the environment in perspective.  It is kind of like if you went catfishing & used night crawlers or chicken livers as bait; your experience will be like Barney.  Frozen mackerel would remove the smaller fish from the equation and increases your percentage for a big catfish dramatically.

[Ginosocalbass]

That plays into the location argument, in this case "location" meaning the body of water. 

 

For example, there are 2 small private lakes here in Orange County, CA that are less than 5 miles away from each other - Lake Mission Viejo & Lake Forest.  Both are "development" lakes built in the 1970's to help sell homes but that is their only similarity.  Mission Viejo is gin clear, over 50 ft. deep at the dam, has FLMB and stocks rainbow trout in the winter.  They don't allow fishing within 30 feet of any private dock and have a full time marine biologist on staff.  Lake Forest has much less visibility thanks to runoff from the street, deepest spot is 12 feet, has NLMB and hasn't received a stocking of any fish for decades.  It has the feel of a pond more than a lake.

 

Mission Viejo regularly pumps out DD bass, including the 13th largest ever, a 19.7 in 2006.  It is a big bass factory.  Lake Forest on the other hand produces maybe 1 or 2 fish over 8lbs per year, even though it has a healthy bass population (main forage is bluegill).  While a bigger bait will increase your chance to catch a pig at Lake Forest, your odds increase exponentially if you instead fish Mission Viejo.  You can't catch what isn't there.

 

I am not trying to say that the baits don't make a difference, they do as long as you keep the environment in perspective.  It is kind of like if you went catfishing & used night crawlers or chicken livers as bait; your experience will be like Barney.  Frozen mackerel would remove the smaller fish from the equation and increases your percentage for a big catfish dramatically.

Its all perspective, like a previous post i mentioned....experiencing both extreme ends of the spectrum. Out here a 6-7lber is a massive giant. a 5lber is a trophy...  

The principles of targeting  12+lber in Cali and a 6lber is Jersey are still the same. you still have to fish the bigger baits and target the bigger fish. They still pattern differantly than the smaller fish. 

 

Trophy hunters who are chasing world record size fish get tired of 6-8lb bass.... Its all about perspective. 

 

 

Believe it or not, a majority of the bass in those lakes are hybrid strain fish, largely by accident.  The true trophy giants that you see are not 100% Florida strain or 100% northern. They are about a 20%(Northern) 80%(Florida) genetic makeup.   You get the longevity of northern bass, and the growth speeds and size of Florida strain. Its the same with the bass in Japan, they get the benefit of handling colder weather from there northern strain genes.  Biwa freezes over, not completely. but they see lower water temps than any of the trophy southern California bass experience,  and they are still producing these top 20 heavyweights, including the new world record. Japan doesn't cater or manage here bass fishery, Bass are considered invasive. and are by law to be killed if caught. They aren't propped up by a trout stocking program (look at the quality of trout stocked in Cali, deformed, no tails...etc. its a joke) but they have an abundance of forage all year long. 

 

The biggest misconception about catching big bass is that people judge there trophy based on other peoples trophys.   Catching giant bass should be a personal goal. weather its 5lbs, or 20lbs. Go target the biggest fish in your fishery, MV lake is private, I've fished it and fished both those lakes, I grew up in that area.   Drive north to some of the city lakes in LA county.  You'll have an oppertunity at a 10-15lb fish, they are public lakes.  

[gulfcaptain]

Matt never started this post as a TROPHY FISHING ONLY post.  It was about targeting the larger population.  MV has trout, Lake Forest bluegill.  If you threw a bluegill sized bait....jig, swimbait, wakebait in the larger size you would be targeting the 4+lb fish in that body of water which would be the larger models if 8lb is big. I think most consider fish over 4lbs to be above average fish.  At that point they have made it to the upper food chain and can pretty much forage on what they want without really having to worry about being eaten by another bass in the system.....Tom mainly fishes jigs and has stated that, Matt is a swimbait guy, both use larger baits targeting larger avg fish.  Weather it be northerns or florida's when you fish bigger baits you will on avg catch the larger fish in that population.

[hatrix]

@gulfcaptian there has been duck baits out for a while now. Lots of guys use them. There big with musky guys also. I use to sit on my friends back deck and we would watch musky eat the baby ducks and geese all the time. It might sound mean but it is actually really awesome to watch.

[RSM789]

Matt never started this post as a TROPHY FISHING ONLY post.  It was about targeting the larger population...Weather it be northerns or florida's when you fish bigger baits you will on avg catch the larger fish in that population.

 

I re-read his initial post & I see what you are saying.  He was talking about putting the odds in your favor. 

 

Since the two lakes in my example are so close in proximity, my point was that targeting the larger population may best be served by changing locations (assuming you had access to both lakes).  If your goal is to catch bigger fish, one lake will out produce the other.  It wouldn't be a stretch to imagine Barney with his Senkos fishing on MV catching as many big bass as the expert using big swimbaits & jigs on Lake Forest, because Barney put the odds in his favor by choosing the different location.  Now if he changed his tactics & lures, his percentage would go up even further.

 

However, I am not a big bass expert, I just enjoy finding & catching bass.  Like many folks, I have limited time to get on the water, so part of the enjoyment is action. If someone who does target the larger population says that I am wrong, I really don't have the credentials to disagree.

[gulfcaptain]

Not wrong, it's just increasing your odds on the body or bodies of water you fish. Weather it be the larger fish in a northern lake or one stocked and managed that's privately owned.  I fish Northern OC so don't really fish much of South OC, but the bodies of water I do fish I concentrate my efforts on the bigger 4+ lb fish in the systems instead of hoping to catch a 12" fish amid the 8" fish. Welcome to the forums and discussion. 

[gulfcaptain]

@gulfcaptian there has been duck baits out for a while now. Lots of guys use them. There big with musky guys also. I use to sit on my friends back deck and we would watch musky eat the baby ducks and geese all the time. It might sound mean but it is actually really awesome to watch.

Looks like I'm going to be doing some looking around for them.....have any good ideas where to start?  

[Paul Roberts]

I think the main reason the upper sizes of any species may be more difficult to catch is because there are less of them.  Secondly when targeting ambush type fish quite often the larger ones seem to be a bit more stationary, they may feed less because they don't require constant calories to fuel their metabolism.  A fish that roams is burning more calories and IMO more aggressive.

I do think more fish will be caught with smaller baits, after some thought I do think the chances of catching a really nice fish are greater with a larger lure, but it won't happen too often.  Timing is the most important factor, casting to the exact spot at the exact time is going to determine no fish, small fish or maybe a larger one, something I have no control over.  If I have no control then luck is playing a big part.

Both survival and growth in large part come down to having enough food. Bass that cannot find enough food may become roamers. Some of these fish however may actually hit the jackpot -schools of trout perhaps. There's a chunk of research that suggests that when there's enough food in a given area, bass roam less. So, yes, BIG bass may be less apt to be roamers in many waters. But this is not a hard and fast rule.

 

John Hope’s telemetry efforts in Texas lakes showed that the largest bass were what he called “flushers”, that were actively hunting and flushing prey. “Ambushing” (not an accurate term when pertaining to bass, but adequate when used loosely) he said was relegated to shallow water bass, all of which were less than 7lbs. Such strategies would likely be reversed in many Florida waters, say.

 

I guess my point is that metabolic efficiency does not preclude aggressiveness.

[hatrix]

Looks like I'm going to be doing some looking around for them.....have any good ideas where to start?

I am not sure who makes them. I have only seen a few pop up for sale but I know they are out there somewhere. They are not going to be cheap either. I don't remember what they go for but they could run like $40-$100 for them.

Swimbait forums will maybe be your best bet to find one.

[Mainebass1984]

 This has been a very interesting topic. I have been following it since it started. I target big bass in Maine and Vermont. Sure they aren't 15lbers like in CA but the are a still a challenge to catch. Not very often do you hook into 6 plus pounders up here in New England. They are true trophies out here. A lot of bass fisherman I know would argue a 5 lber is a trophy out here. It takes a long time for a New England bass to attain 5 lbs. By that time they are wary, probably have been caught before and have seen there fair share of lures. It is interesting to see and hear the opinions on targeting bigger bass. A lot of has ben covered on the topic, putting the odds in your favor, fishing bigger baits, swim baits, jigs, location, etc. Everything mentioned definitely helps and will catch big bass. IN my own opinion location is a big factor. On every body of water all across the country there are specific locations that will time and again hold big fish. Attention to detail is very beneficial in my own opinion when it comes to targeting big trophy class bass. It can be the smallest detail in the lure your throwing or a subtle change in bottom contour, or a small tree branch in 15 feet of water. One thing is for sure you cant consistently catch trophy class fish if your not on the water targeting them. I live to fish for big bass. It is what I have a passion for.

[Raul]

Once the therm "big bass" is applied immediately the thread becomes about NLMB or FLMB or F1LMB and how two subspecies behave this way or thata way and so on. The thread is about catching big bass, so any 5 lb is a big bass no matter where you are and no matter which subspecies it belongs to, people that have never caught a 5 lber bass don´t have any idea of how really big is a 5 pounder, and that is what you desire to catch.

 

Location, timing, bait, presentation.

 

Location: not only means the geographical zone it also means within a body of water which places are most likely to hold the bigger fish, if 90% of the water is fishless and only 10% holds fish bigger fish are only found in even more reduced places from that 10% you go down easily to 20% or 30%, so that means that only 2 to 3% of the water surface holds bigger fish. The hard part is finding and identifying those spots.

 

Timining: can be seen from different angles, your bait has to be when the fish is there, the "location" may be right but the timing is not, if big fish were permanent residents of a spot then in theory you should be able to catch them over and over again, the catch is that they are not always there, they are there in specific time frames that can be determined by many environmental factors that make a spot suitable for the big fish to be thee, it can be throughout the day and it can vary from day to day extending all the way throughout the year. Matt mentioned.

 

Lure type: we are not discussing about swimbaits vs other baits, swimbaits are tools like the other baits and they may work for you or not; I said, "swimming swimbaits do not work for me", but what does this mean ? swimming swimbaits do not catch for me the size of fish I´m looking for, that doesn´t mean that I don´t cath 5, 6  or 7 pounders but I´m not after 5, 6 or 7 pounders, I´m after 8+ lb fish and I´m after my new PB, so if you are after a 5, 6, or 7 or 8 lbers hell, yes, I´m pretty shure swimbaits will catch you those fish. My special jig/Brush Hog combination consistently catches me the size of fish I´m after ( Interestingly enough is the fact that nor my first 10+ nor my PB, nor my second largest were caught with that combination. ).

 

Presentation: To me slow methodical almost arthritic snail pace is what works for catching the size of fish I seek ( to others it may be different ) why ? because once I speed up then every single idiotic smaller fish feels like it has been invited to the party, that is my experience. So why is it that I caught those 3 fish with "non big momma baits" , what I said ? slow and methodical, first trophy with a Rapala Original Minnow, ocassional twitches just barely making the bait dive it´s nose, PB with a Rapala Shad Rap modified to suspend, same thing, suspending with ocassional twitches just to make the bait wiggle a little bit, second largest, 5" senko, slowly and methodically dragged and barely hopped.

 

The elements have to be in harmony. Let me give you an example, my compadre and I have been fishing partners for more than 15 years, we fish together from the same boat so I´m here and he is 8 ft away, that means we fish the same location, we have made casts to the same spot with identical baits and I catch better fish than him, it ain´t that the Gods love me, it´s that one of the elements ---> presentation is different; he has his style and I have my style and what I have noticed is that he fishes "faster" than I. 

 

So good luck gentlemen in your quest for bigger fish just remember: to dance with the fat lady you have to be where the fat lady is, when the fat lady is and ask her with the right words if she wanna dance with you.

[everythingthatswims]

I'm glad I stumbled upon this thread, there's lots of great pointers being made. Which leads me to several questions: I live in Nova Scotia and we only have SMB, no LMB. I would say the largest ones being caught regularly are in the 3-4 Lb range. I am only not starting to diversify and figure out what's working for me and what isn't. As much as the locals are helpful, most of it is the same as what you have said about the blind squirrel. Lots of senko's being thrown and the occasional big (for around here) bass being caught. Typically, I will use 4 spinning rods for various soft plastics: wacky and texas rigged senko's, texas rigged super flukes, and then either a tube jig or a shaky head. I also have smaller top water lures (poppers etc) but just recently picked up a Zara Spook. I also throw spinnerbaits. My questions is, where do I start with swimbaits? Should I try to match the kind of bait fish that are in the various lakes, or go with the coours and patterns of the senko's and flukes that usually catch fish? How big is too big a bait to throw when the bass aren't California/Texas huge? I want to maximize my time fishing these because I don't get out on a boat too often. I don't have my own boat, just a kayak. I usually tag along with a friend of mine when he goes out for a few hours after work. I realize that lure selection and tactics are going to be different based on my location, I'm really just looking for some general guidelines and principles to get started. If there are any good articles worth reading or videos worth watching, links would be greatly appreciated! Thanks for being so helpful guys!

Get a couple s-waver 168s, (replace the hooks!) probably perch colored for you or one in a shiner/herring color if you have any silver colored baitfish. And for some odd reason the "lite trout" gets hammered even though it doesn't look like anything (trout aren't yellow haha). 17lb or 20lb fluoro would be a good choice, and make sure you have enough rod to set the hook! Smallies love the 168, I caught my PB smallie @23" on one, and plenty in the 12-16" range, little smallies will hammer the s-wavers, don't worry about not getting numbers because you will slay them. 

[adam lancia]

Thanks for the suggestion, those will end up on my winter shopping list!

[WRB]

Looks like I'm going to be doing some looking around for them.....have any good ideas where to start?

Persuader Lures make a duck lure for about $16, need to upgrade the hooks!

Tom

[Brian6428]

Oh boy, this thread got brought up again. I asked a question a few pages back, but it never got answered, so I'll give it another go. 

 

How does this topic (namely swim baits) relate to tournament fishing? Are there guys throwing them that are winning tournaments? If not, why?

[deep]

Brandon Palaniuk.

[Maxximus Redneckus]

One misconception is big bass can only be caught in deep water,all of my big bass been in water 5 ft or less.both my 10 and 9 where in 3 fow

[WRB]

A-rigs were a tournament game changer, now they are banned from most events. When Clear Lake in CA was on the trail, swimbaits dominated and when Amistad was going good swimbaits were key lures there.

Keep in mind that 5 bass weighing 3 lbs weigh more than 1bass 10 lb bass.

Tom

[WRB]

One misconception is big bass can only be caught in deep water,all of my big bass been in water 5 ft or less.both my 10 and 9 where in 3 fow

The vast majority of DD bass are caught during the spawning cycle; pre spawn through post spawn when bass move into shallow water. The big bass still are uncomfortable in shallow water and prefer a deep water exit close by during day time.

Tom

[Senko lover]

 I don't really fish anywhere where you could catch a big bass. One of my ponds is rumored to have a 7-8 pounder in it, but it is a very small pond and high, highly pressured. Not that I wouldn't mind catching her .

Thanks for the tips.

[2833-34497]

Looks like I'm going to be doing some looking around for them.....have any good ideas where to start?  

 

 Here's a couple things I've have seen on Duck Swimbaits by Trap Bass Baits Duck Jr!

 

[hatrix]

Brandon Palaniuk.

^^ Yes sir and he will throw the big stuff also. Not the kinda big new to swimbaits stuff. 10" is definitely not out of the question.

One thing I guess with the tournaments is the 8' rod deal. There really isn't a ton of rods you can choose from and even less when you start talking about rod you want for the biggest stuff. Lots of guys have custom stuff and the really heavy ones often times exceed 8'

I am not exactly sure what Brandon uses though.