Pflueger Trion Wind Knots

[hatrix]

A guy from work gave me a brand new in the box Trion spinning reel size 30. Any way I brought it home and put on 20# braid and put it on a Fenwick HMG 7' M/H. I had planned to use it for fishing small stuff in pretty heavy grass and being able to rip it free because of the rod. I don't know what it is with it but I get crazy wind knots. I ended up putting some 8# Yo Zuri I had lying around on it. I have not had a issue with the Yo Zuri since I changed the line and I even tried to make it get twist by fishing for a good while with no swivel on baits that would cause twist. I have used super crappy spinning reels before with braid and never used a swivel and they are fine. I know its not a super great reel but I have never had trouble with Presidents. Maybe it is a bad reel? I don't know.

[new2BC4bass]

Hopefully someone like SirSnookalot will chime in.  I've got braid on 2 spinning reels...30# on a MH and 10# on a Light.  I seldom use a spinning reel any more.  I've read of the advantages of braid, but when it comes to casting I still prefer mono.  Maybe that will change if I ever make it a habit to use my spinning reels more often.  However, I don't recall having problems with wind knots.

 

If I remember correctly SirSnookalot uses nothing but braid and nothing but spinning reels.  There are several other guys on here who use nothing but braid on their spinning reels.  One should be along shortly to give you some good advice.  I'll keep an eye on this thread for future reference. 

 

EDIT:  Thanks for asking the question.

[Jolly Green]

I run 20# PP with a fluoro leader on my main spinning reel and I get very few wind knots, usually only if I'm trying to whip a lighter weight lure a little too hard.  I do use a swivel for flukes or other soft jerk baits but not for anything else.  Are you using a leader, and if so, what leader knot do you use? A bulky knot will potentially get hung up in the tip guide, and it only takes a fraction of a second for the line coming up behind it to loop through itself. What lures are you throwing? Some are more twist prone than others.

 

I'm of the opinion that even if you spool the reel correctly, spinning reels twist you up after a while, no matter what, unless you periodically take measures to untwist it.  Imagine your line is flat like a ribbon; you spool it on perfectly flat, but on your first cast you would notice that because the line comes off the end of the spool instead of unwinding perpendicular to the spool as on a baitcaster, there is a twist for every turn that comes off, it's just the way spinning reels are.  

 

I usually end a long session of fishing by tying on a swivel snap and attaching a 1/2 oz. spinnerbait and tossing it downstream. (I mainly river fish.)  Retrieving against the current nice and slow a couple times seems to eliminate any huge amount of twist that might have built up over the hours.

 

You may also want to make sure that the line roller is moving as freely as possible.  I don't know if the Trion has a bearing in there or not, but a sticky line roller will twist you up in a hurry.

[hatrix]

I also only use braid on spinning. I have some random rods without braid but they are not ones I use. Most of my spinning rods have swivels on them. I just pretty much always use a swivel anymore on my spinning rods even if its not really need just out of habit. When I tie leader I do a uni to uni and I never have issues on any rods casting or spinning. Yes I know how to spool a reel and yes I flip my bail over by hand every time. I don't even know to do engage a spinning reel any other way. I might have forgot over the years. Blah blah blah blah and more blah. Maybe it is just a bard reel or something. But I would of assumed It would happen to me with any other line and it was only braid. I even walked out the line and and spooled the braid on again but used a piece of tape so everything could be perfect. No knot or anything hindering how it stacked the line and to eliminate a variable.

[starweldpro16]

Well,I guess I'm not alone in this either. Been wondering about the Trion. Mine is a line twisting pain in the a$$. It's a swivel,or prepare to swear at it. I used it for a couple years stream fishing for trout with single eggs with no issue. Put a load on it like a shad rap or bomber "B" and it won't take long. I suspect the roller. Light load on a short line and it's fine. Put a strain on her without a swivel and she'll twist up like a demon. 

[SirSnookalot]

I run 20# PP with a fluoro leader on my main spinning reel and I get very few wind knots, usually only if I'm trying to whip a lighter weight lure a little too hard.  I do use a swivel for flukes or other soft jerk baits but not for anything else.  Are you using a leader, and if so, what leader knot do you use? A bulky knot will potentially get hung up in the tip guide, and it only takes a fraction of a second for the line coming up behind it to loop through itself. What lures are you throwing? Some are more twist prone than others.

 

 

 

I buy the theory using a lighter lure can create more wind knots, I get tons of them in freshwater and much less on my saltwater outfits, I overload my saltwater rods all the time.  I do believe the line comes out straighter with a heavier lure thrown with a long flowing cast as opposed to a snap cast.  The line hits the first guide and that's where the knot occurs.  The Spanish Fly has a video depicting this in slow motion when he was discussing the Terez rod which is designed for braid use with k guides.

I do have a few brands that have never had a wind knot, true I'm using them in saltwater but I do think the spool design plays a significant part in the reduction of wind knots.

 

Another thing that can cause wind knots with braid is excessive line twist, caused by a lure turning over too much.  Barrel and crane swivels are near worthless except for line connectors, a power swivel is slightly better and BB swivels are the way to go.  I'm not so sure how well this might work for a freshwater application but the best thing I have ever used to reduce line twist is a ball chain swivel.  I have been making my barracuda tubes which constantly turn 360 degrees with ball chain swivels for about year with no line twist at all, I use them almost daily too.

[.ghoti.]

Wind knots are caused by the line coming off the spool faster than it's going through the first guide. Add a little line twist, and a wind knot is inevitable.

 

I've heard a lot of people say they used braid on a spinning reel because it doesn't twist. It twists. The twist in braid does not cause as many problems as it does with mono or flouro.

 

All line will twist when spooled on a spinning reel. It will twist when cranked on the spool, and untwist when casting. I perfectly functioning roller will mitigate some of the problem by keeping the twist/untwist cycle more even, but you will still get some.

 

I've also heard a lot of folks say to close the bail by hand to prevent line twist. That simply is not true. Closing the bail by hand will prevent loops from forming on the spool, but does nothing to prevent twist.

 

My experiences with braid suggest that lighter pound test, smaller diameter braid will produce more wind knots. You could go up one size and see if that helps. It may.

 

Another culprit may be the first guide on the rod. Measure the inside diameter of the first guide and compare that to the outside diameter of the spool. If the ID of first guide measures less than half the OD of the spool, you've found a large part of the problem.

[hatrix]

Hmm i didn't know that about the guide size vs spool size. I have some heavier braid somewhere and when i get around to it I will try to switch it out and see what happens. It just weird because any other spinning rod I have i can do whatever I want with it and never have a problem.