Will Northern And Southern Bass Take The Same Lures

[Raul]

Maybe you're question should be will a northern strain largemouth bite the same lure as a Florida strain largemouth ?

 

Down here we have both and let me see, I catch northern strain with cranks, spinnerbaits, worms, jigs, topwaters and Florida strain with cranks, spinnerbaits, worms, jigs, topwaters, so, nope, they don´t bite the same lures.

[that possum]

Looking at some of the Havok baits like the Back Slide and the Pit Boss....I don't know what these baits are supposed to imitate, but if I saw anything in the water that looked like those things, I'd never go swimming again.

[Raul]

Looking at some of the Havok baits like the Back Slide and the Pit Boss....I don't know what these baits are supposed to imitate, but if I saw anything in the water that looked like those things, I'd never go swimming again.

C'mon, how you don't know what they imitate ? darters, that's what they imitate, of course, the origin of those baits is the venerable Stingray grub, which of course imitates a stingray.

[hoosierbass07]

  When I go fishing I see little fish in the water, bass in the water sometimes, turtles and beavers and maybe frogs.  But I never see crawdads.  Where are they at?  Do they stay hidden from sight?  

[Raul]

When I go fishing I see little fish in the water, bass in the water sometimes, turtles and beavers and maybe frogs.  But I never see crawdads.  Where are they at?  Do they stay hidden from sight?

here comes hoosier, let's play hide and seek ! That's what craws say whe they know you're comin'.

[WRB]

NLMB vs FLMB in the same lakes behave very differently in California lakes, NLMB are very aggressive and much easier to catch on lures. FLMB in the same lakes are far more wary, tend to be caught on live bait more often than lures. Yes you can catch them on the same lures, not as often and FLMB prefer more natural looking lures like soft plastics and swimbaits that resemble the preferred prey.

Smallmouth bass in the same lakes as both LMB and spots tend to be aggressive and prefer brighter colors and smaller size lures than LMB, the spots preferring smaller size lures similar to smallmouth just more natural colors and are very aggressive.

Tom

[F14A-B]

Humm, Fl. Strain are not aggressive? Well, I wonder where that comes from?.. Those fish most assuredly, are very aggressive, I have been a very amused topwater fisher when 5 to 8 pd Fl. Strain as in the State of Florida, LMB...strike my rapalas, or dual prop cedar baits... Performing spectacular, even amazing airborne feats... But, yea... Word is they are not aggressive. That's BS!

I don't know where this comes from. But it's far from true...

[WRB]

Aggressive in striking lures means NLMB will strike a wider variety of lures more often verse. Less aggressive bass may not strike lures as often and be more difficult to react to lures.

When pure FLMB were transplanted into San Diego lakes the goal was to improve both the average size of bass and numbers caught per man hour of fishing. The program was considered a failure because FLMB proved to be far difficult to catch on lures. The fact FLMB grew to be giants over 15 lbs wasn't a goal of the original program. It was believed by some excellent bass anglers of that era that FLMB rarely strike lures and most anglers started using live crawdads, big Canadian night crawlers, mud sucker, waterdogs (tiger salamanders) and shiners to consistently catch these bass. New lures and presentations were delve eloped to catch FLMB.

Don't confuse lazy with less lure aggressiveness, FLMB are bigger and fight just as hard as any NLMB.

Less aggressive is a fact based on catch rates. The fact is some big FLMB rarely or never strike a lure outside of the spawning period.

Tom

[Mainebass1984]

 NLMB and FLMB are the same species. They are both sub-species of Largemouth Bass just different strains..

 

If bass are hungry its doesn't matter if they are NLMB, FLMB, in Florida, California, or Minnesota, they will eat.

 

If it looks like food they will eat it.

[whitwolf]

To the original poster: Ignore the smart ***** and keep on asking questions. The great thing about BR is there are many different folks that are willing share what they know/believe and more than not give you more than asked. The goodwill from the majority make this the best fishing forum on the 'net. 

[greentrout]

If you ever get a chance, read some of Babe Winkelman's writings about the Largemouth Bass. He will discuss some

of the differences in the two. But basically, they are just alike with their predatory opportunistic killing patterns...

 

Old school basser....

[tatertester]

Babe Winkleman has a lot of experience with Northern strain largemouth, but don't know that he can speak with any authority about Southern strain largemouth.

[WRB]

NLMB and FLMB are the same species. They are both sub-species of Largemouth Bass just different strains..

If bass are hungry its doesn't matter if they are NLMB, FLMB, in Florida, California, or Minnesota, they will eat.

If it looks like food they will eat it.

Have you ever caught a FLMB?

Pure FLMB were planted in San Diego city lake by Orville Ball and Larry Brom back in 1959 and then managed by Larry Bottroff biologist for the San Diego lakes; lower Otsy, San Vincente, El Capitan, Southerland, Wofford and lake Hodges. I fished all these lakes as a member of the Pisces bass club, set a few lake records and a few hundred DD FLMB. What are your credentials to make a factual statement regarding behavioral traits of NLMB vs FLMB?...

Tom

[shanksmare]

There are few absolutes when it comes to fishing. All you have to do is read a bunch of articles and it soon becomes apparent that there are many conflicting opinions: one author says you have to use flouro, the next says you must use braid, etc, etc ad infinitum. So who are you to believe? Me of course! (just kidding)

 

When I lived up North I started out using the go to lures for that area and that time. Lures like Jitterbugs, River runts, Darters, Hula Poppers, plastic worms,  etc. My success ratio was pretty dismal. I started fishing with a friend who was an accomplished bass fisherman and my success ratio went up a few ticks. I then started reading more about bass fishing and using lures which were successful in the South (not necessarily FLMB). Now I was really cooking, I joined a bass fishing club and started doing well, even winning some club tourneys.

 

Fast forward about 35 years and I found myself living in Florida. After several years of fishing mostly in SW I started fishing for bass again... I used the same lures I used up North and after making a few presentation tweaks, I started catching bass successfully.

 

So are NLMB more aggressive than FLMB? I guess my answer is: "At times!". How's that for a cop out? Perhaps NLMB are more aggressive is due to the fact that in many locations up north no one fishes for them from November to May. Whereas the FLMB are hammered pretty much year round. The NLMB always seemed to be a lot easier to catch in June than in September after they had been pounded anglers for 3 months.

 

All that being said I have noticed that most guides in FL that are targetting larger bass use shiners for bait. So one would assume it is much easier to catch the larger bass with live bait than with lures.

 

Oh ya I'll address the DD bass thingy (to show my credibility or lack there of). I've caught well over a hundred DD bass in a single night  ... from shore. Many of which were over 20 pounds! So there you go! Oh you mean striped bass don't count? Aw shucks! 

 

So I only caught one DD FLMB. Why is it that so few anglers catch LMB over 10 lbs.? I guess the main reason is that there aren't any LMB over 10 lbs where they are fishing. I could tell you stories of my trip to San Diego (Ocean Beach actually) and my conversations with anglers that I met there but another time. 

 

Well my fingers are getting tired from typing, so now you have one more persons opinion for what its worth.

[Mainebass1984]

Have you ever caught a FLMB?

Pure FLMB were planted in San Diego city lake by Orville Ball and Larry Brom back in 1959 and then managed by Larry Bottroff biologist for the San Diego lakes; lower Otsy, San Vincente, El Capitan, Southerland, Wofford and lake Hodges. I fished all these lakes as a member of the Pisces bass club, set a few lake records and a few hundred DD FLMB. What are your credentials to make a factual statement regarding behavioral traits of NLMB vs FLMB?...

Tom

 

Yes I have caught FLMB while I was working and living in Florida as a Fisheries Biologist Assistant. I have not caught a double digit largemouth bass anywhere.  My credentials... Well since you are "calling me out" I guess I should list my credentials ?? I usually don't like pointing out my "credentials" but since you insist.. I am a fisheries biologist that works with fish everyday and fishes 120 days on the water every single year almost exclusively for bass. I keep detailed regards of every single fish I have caught since 1998. I have worked in a fisheries related position in Maine, Vermont, Florida, Illinois, Alaska, Iowa and Missouri. I am a member of 2 bass clubs currently and have set lake records while winning tournaments, club and opens. It is true I have never caught a DD bass but I have spent most of my time in New England where they are exceedingly rare. My biggest is a 9 lb 1 oz, a pure NLMB whch was aged at 16 years old. This year I have caught 37 bass over 5 lbs all pure NLMB. Sure they aren't DD but they are big fish in New England and far older them most FLMB. Sure you have more experience catching FLMB but the original post is whether or not NLMB and FLMB will strike the same lures.. Yes they will. It is simple. If something is hungry whether it is a bird, a bug, a fish a person it is going to eat. Simple biology.  FLMB get big for sure and to do that they must eat. There is no need to over complicate things like we as fisherman do so very often. If a bass is hungry it eats. Fact.

 

Tom lets see some pictures of a few of the hundreds upon hundreds of DD you have caught ? Any recent ones ?

[einscodek]

Yer both great fishermen.

I'd agree both species will strike similar lures.

Interesting though that Tom indicates the finnickiness of FSLMB.

I'd be interested in other differences between the two in behavior..

[WRB]

Mainebass 1984,

Good reply, good credentials,still miss the point, I will agree to disagree. The point. ; FLMB introduction into San Diego lakes was a failure to meet the fishery goal of improving catch rate and larger average size bass per man hour fished verses NLMB. The catch rates went down significantly because the FLMB in the same ecosystem with NLMB were far more difficult to catch. Being a fishery biologist you have access to the reports, the study covered the period between, as I recall, 1965 to 1975 by Larry Bottroff. Simple fact keeping study monitoring angler success rates by personal interviews, electro shocking to determine population density, scale studies identify the bass and to determine growth rate/age etc.

The fact that the FLMB grew to become trophy size wasn't a goal for the program, however the bass angling community appreciated potential record size bass in the lakes.

Agree every animal must eat to survive; where, when, what and how they eat differs greatly between all black bass.

Send me a PM and I will give some information.

Peace.

Tom

[Mainebass1984]

 Perhaps I will check out the report. A lot has changed in the scientific community in the last 50 years.  As with any study there are a lot of variables. Dorsal spines and otiliths are far more accurate at determining age then scales.

[WRB]

Perhaps I will check out the report. A lot has changed in the scientific community in the last 50 years.  As with any study there are a lot of variables. Dorsal spines and otiliths are far more accurate at determining age then scales.

Bottroff being a skilled biologist new how to identify NLMB from FLMB and the various intergrates by quick physical exam at dock side where he did his angler field checks. Larry took a few scales from time to time from anglers like myself before releasing the fish. I knew how to count lateral line pour scales back then and believe the dorsal spines are the same between FLMB and NLMB. I know FLMB have more scales below the lateral line then NLMB, too hard for me to count on a live bass that you are trying to release.

Tom

PS, if I have the study, will post the title.

[Mainebass1984]

Pretty cool experience. I am sure it was an exciting time back in the 60s and 70s with the hopes of a new world record from California waters. Aging bass by scales is difficult and inaccurate. A microscope and stain are needed. Basically your counting annuli like you would on a tree. Ctenoid scales because of there shape are difficult to age.  The accepted procedure in the scientific community today for aging bass or other ctenoid scaled fish is by dorsal spine. The second dorsal spine is removed as close to body as can be. After the spine is prepared with a solution to remove all the skin or other bodily remnants it is sliced extremely thin by a specific expensive machine. The samples are then mounted on a slide and stained before being observed under a microscope. Dorsal spine samples show annual growth just like a tree and appear like annuli you would see on a stump after cutting down a tree.

[porkleaker]

I'm sure there is a biological difference between them. They're in completley different enviroments, temperatures and sometimes food. But the most obvious indication is their size comparison. If you've ever fished up North, especially up here in Canada. A 5-6lb Large mouth is a monster. Meanwhile, you guys are catching 8-9lbers. I'm desperately trying to avoid the religion debate, but that is what we call evolution.

[WRB]

California doesn't have any native fresh water black bass they all have been transplanted from so where else. The initial NLMB and Smallmouth came by way of Minnesota in the late 1890's, spotted bass from Alabama in 1939 and FLMB in 1959 from Florida. We didn't have Threadfin Shad until the mid 50's. All have adapted to the various rivers and mostly man made lakes, only Clear lake and Tahoe are natural lakes with a bass population.

The northern largemouth bass were near shore cover oriented fish before Threadfin shad were introduced, rarely did you catch a NLMB away from shore.

When the FLMB were introduced we didn't have a wide variety of lures, mostly surface and diving lures, soft plastics and jig & pig were just becoming popular. Live crawdads were the accepted bait back then to catch FLMB as lures were often useless. By the late 70's soft plastic hand pour big worm presentations became popular and effective method to catch FLMB. It took a generation of bass to learn how to catch them.

Tom

[greentrout]

Babe Winkleman has a lot of experience with Northern strain largemouth, but don't know that he can speak with any authority about Southern strain largemouth.

He has also fished a lot in the South, too. It has been my experience in the State of Mississippi with a new opening of a lake, stocked

with Florida strain bass, the fishing is great initially but once time goes on the catch rates decline, sometimes dramatically.

 

Winkelman believes FLMB "go to school" and learn and adapt to the presentation of lures and many will not strike them. They are highly

adaptable predators and an intelligent fish.

 

Good fishing...

[shanksmare]

Somewhere on this site there was a video of a seminar given by a biologist who was involved in managing ponds in Texas, I believe. It had a lot of useful observations concerning bass fisheries, just how common DD bass were and perceptions by anglers. I particularly liked his  quote, "Bass fishermen spend most of their time trying to outsmart a fish that CANNOT think!". ( or words to that effect)

 

This thread certainly has 'evolved' from the original question.

[FrogFreak]

Wow, I learn a ton on this site. Here's my humble take on it. People say Northern  bass are more aggressive. I submit that the bass up North are more aggressive because our waters don't get as warm and sure don't stay as warm as southern waters. There may be other factors but this may be an overlooked one. I read all types of articles about the summer pattern and how the fishing is harder in the heat of the summer. I find this to be untrue up North. Just last weekend I was very successful all weekend long and the air temps are pretty warm. I fished out of my yak all weekend so I really don't know what the water temp is but it's not that warm yet.. We are blessed with a pretty consistent yet short season up here.

 

And yes, bass will eat just about anything when hungry cuz they don't have hands.