Shimano Stopping The Lifetime Warranty As Of 8-1-14

[K_Mac]

Well said captain. I want the best rod for my money. I do not expect the manufacturer to replace it unless it is for a defect in material. Period. One year is more than enough time to determine that. As Mike said the market will decide if a manufacturer is dealing honestly and fairly. I do not want to pay for those who expect a new rod when they slam the tip in the truck door. Period. A rod better suited to be a tomato stake that is warrantied to last till cockroaches are gone has no value to me. 

[tomustang]

The rod will still catch fish.

That's fine, but we're all talking about the warranty here, not catching fish.

[Tywithay]

That's fine, but we're all talking about the warranty here, not catching fish.

If your rod makes it through a year of fishing and the warranty runs out, you've outlasted any manufacturing defects that may have shown up. It's not very likely that the rod is suddenly going to break after one year and one day. If you take care of it, it'll last a lifetime, whether it's warrantied or not.

[tomustang]

Reread my post, it's not that hard, if you dont/can't use your rods that first year much you're SOL with a one year warranty.

[einscodek]

Ya I was lookin to get a new rod and lookin at the crucial but if I dont get it within a few weeks.. I aint buyin Shimano w/o that warranty

[Jrob78]

Reread my post, it's not that hard, if you dont/can't use your rods that first year much you're SOL with a one year warranty.

Then don't buy a rod and stick it in the closet for a year.  It's the same as any other product with a limited time warranty.  It's not that hard.

[LMB KING]

The warranty guarantees your hard working money a rod for life. Having life-time is extremely important to me because accidents do happen, that's life. I hope they don't do this to G.Loomis in the future, if they do, i wont buy them anymore. All i'm going to buy is Ugly Stik and St.Croix.

[Tywithay]

Reread my post, it's not that hard, if you dont/can't use your rods that first year much you're SOL with a one year warranty.

Then buy something else, I guess. Even if you don't use them much, they'll break within the first couple hours if there's a true manufacturing defect in the blank.

[Jrob78]

The warranty guarantees your hard working money a rod for life. Having life-time is extremely important to me because accidents do happen, that's life. I hope they don't do this to G.Loomis in the future, if they do, i wont buy them anymore. All i'm going to buy is Ugly Stik and St.Croix.

"Because accidents do happen"  That's like saying Ford should fix your car under warranty when you wreck it.  

[K_Mac]

The warranty guarantees your hard working money a rod for life. Having life-time is extremely important to me because accidents do happen, that's life. I hope they don't do this to G.Loomis in the future, if they do, i wont buy them anymore. All i'm going to buy is Ugly Stik and St.Croix.

 

There is no free lunch. GLoomis and St.Croix do not give in store replacement rods. When they do give replacement rods that are damaged by the customer, there is a fee. That fee continues to rise over time. I continue to be baffled by the idea that a one time purchase of any rod entitles someone to a lifetime of use regardless of treatment. For those that feel that way Ugly Stik is a great deal. You can't break the bleeping things. For most of us though, that is not the measure of a rod. There is always a cost of ownership. That is an adult reality in all of life, including fishing.

[A-Jay]

Fishing Rod warranties are like being on a wild Roller coaster ride . . . . .

 

When you get off you realize all your money flew out of your pockets . . . . .

 

 

A-Jay

[EvanT123]

A warranty is only as good as the name on the box. I can get a good look at T-bone steak by sticking my head up a bulls butt but I'd rather take the butchers word for it.

Edit: Credit it to Chris Farley (Tommy Boy)

[tomustang]

Then buy something else, I guess. Even if you don't use them much, they'll break within the first couple hours if there's a true manufacturing defect in the blank.

Then don't buy a rod and stick it in the closet for a year.  It's the same as any other product with a limited time warranty.  It's not that hard.

That's fine by me, shimano rods and their service have left a sour note with me many years ago, they won't get my money. So it's no skin off my back, it's still lame no matter how you two defend them.

[Capt.Bob]

There is a lot of false speculation being spoken here, according to Gary Loomis, and St. Croix reps, both toting engineering degrees in composites, and both well regarded in what they do. According to them a rod can be put on a stress machine and taken to a limit just before breaking points. Some will take many more repetitions than others to that point, depending on material, thickness, and the taper they are made with some will even take the limit more times than the same testing in an exactly same dimensional blank.

 

But they have said just because a rod will take the stress, and it is not taken close to the max at anytime, it is wearing on it, the more times you stress a rod by bending it by any amount, you are stretching (making it longer) the top side of the blank and compressing (shortening if you will) the bottom of the rod, this constant stretching and contracting of the material is like any other material, it wears on it. So if you catch 7 lbs. bass all the time, and another guy never catches over 2 lbs bass all the time, his rod is going to outlast yours. Plus according to the proffesionals, the same specs on different blanks are not allways the same, because some rods can take all the 5 lbs fish you can catch the exact same kind of rod on a different blank, can fail much sooner doing the same duty, just not right away.

 

I was also told by a St. Croix rep, that is why some blank with one material will get a lifetime warranty and some blanks made with different won't. They expect each to take so much stress before it weakens it, in other words wears out!! But like they said every rod even built identical will have some variance. So a 5 year rod is ecpected to get as much use by the "AVERAGE USER" in that amount of time, the Lifetime blanks can take much more of this stretching and contracting of the material without taking a toll, but without abusing the rod it will take it's toll eventually!! That is what the folks with degrees making these rods say, not me. So a guy that fishes in Florida year round 4 or 5 days week is going to have the same warranty the guy that fatigues his rods 7 months out of the year 2 days a week,,,,,to say one should have the same time to take it's toll on a rod is ridiculous, same as saying I only fish 2 days a week so your stuff should last as long as mine when you fish 5 or 6 days a week??????

 

Shimano played the high profit game, charging extravagant markup's on their rods made in China, hoping few would hassle with the warranty and they could smile all the way to the bank with outrageous profit's, now they have to balk. This because they, in no way, with the rods we are referring to here, have anywhere near the technology, or the engineering in them, let alone the cost of materials or labor to build them, that Gary Loomis and NFC, or those now managing G. Loomis for Shimano, or St. Croix does in the rods they back with lifetime warranties, but they responsibly offer lifetime warranties that are real, and they expect their customers to use them, as they pay extra for them every time they buy one of these elite blanks.     

[Jrob78]

This is what a rod will do when it isn't damaged.  I don't think most people are putting this much strain on their rods while fishing.  If your rod breaks after the first year, it's because of something you did to it.

[bootytrain]

"Because accidents do happen"  That's like saying Ford should fix your car under warranty when you wreck it.

Yeah this is a ridiculous entitlement mentality. I worked retail at a chain store that had a ridiculous return policy(Eddie Bauer). It was ridiculous how much the customers abused it.

[SirSnookalot]

Shimano rods have treated me well, or maybe I just treated them well and never had issues, but I don't baby my rods.  At some price points I would not bother with a warranty claim even if it were lifetime, unless it was over the counter.  A lifetime warranty tells me the company has faith in their product that under normal wear I should have no problems, that lifetime warranty gives me more piece of mind.

What my plans are with Shimano remains to be seen, I won't make any upfront decisions until I need to.

[K_Mac]

There is a lot of false speculation being spoken here, according to Gary Loomis, and St. Croix reps, both toting engineering degrees in composites, and both well regarded in what they do. According to them a rod can be put on a stress machine and taken to a limit just before breaking points. Some will take many more repetitions than others to that point, depending on material, thickness, and the taper they are made with some will even take the limit more times than the same testing in an exactly same dimensional blank.

 

But they have said just because a rod will take the stress, and it is not taken close to the max at anytime, it is wearing on it, the more times you stress a rod by bending it by any amount, you are stretching (making it longer) the top side of the blank and compressing (shortening if you will) the bottom of the rod, this constant stretching and contracting of the material is like any other material, it wears on it. So if you catch 7 lbs. bass all the time, and another guy never catches over 2 lbs bass all the time, his rod is going to outlast yours. Plus according to the proffesionals, the same specs on different blanks are not allways the same, because some rods can take all the 5 lbs fish you can catch the exact same kind of rod on a different blank, can fail much sooner doing the same duty, just not right away.

 

I was also told by a St. Croix rep, that is why some blank with one material will get a lifetime warranty and some blanks made with different won't. They expect each to take so much stress before it weakens it, in other words wears out!! But like they said every rod even built identical will have some variance. So a 5 year rod is ecpected to get as much use by the "AVERAGE USER" in that amount of time, the Lifetime blanks can take much more of this stretching and contracting of the material without taking a toll, but without abusing the rod it will take it's toll eventually!! That is what the folks with degrees making these rods say, not me. So a guy that fishes in Florida year round 4 or 5 days week is going to have the same warranty the guy that fatigues his rods 7 months out of the year 2 days a week,,,,,to say one should have the same time to take it's toll on a rod is ridiculous, same as saying I only fish 2 days a week so your stuff should last as long as mine when you fish 5 or 6 days a week??????

 

Shimano played the high profit game, charging extravagant markup's on their rods made in China, hoping few would hassle with the warranty and they could smile all the way to the bank with outrageous profit's, now they have to balk. This because they, in no way, with the rods we are referring to here, have anywhere near the technology, or the engineering in them, let alone the cost of materials or labor to build them, that Gary Loomis and NFC, or those now managing G. Loomis for Shimano, or St. Croix does in the rods they back with lifetime warranties, but they responsibly offer lifetime warranties that are real, and they expect their customers to use them, as they pay extra for them every time they buy one of these elite blanks.     

 

Bob with all due respect, I challenge you to prove that any quality rod, at any price, when used within the limits of its design will "wear out" over time. It is not normal flexing of the blank that damages the blank. It is going beyond those limits. Maybe you can wear out an anvil too, but not with normal use, whether you're shoeing horses or cracking walnuts.

 

The other idea in play in this thread is that bad companies are making too much money. Shimano may not be your cup of tea, but their success is based on a very large and satisfied customer base. I don't have a Shimano rod or reel in my arsenal at this time-I am not a fan-boy. Shimano, or any other manufacturer competing in an open market succeeds or fails based on their ability to meet the needs of the market. The idea that because they make a lot of money they owe you more than a company that doesn't is nonsense. 

[Tywithay]

There is a lot of false speculation being spoken here, according to Gary Loomis, and St. Croix reps, both toting engineering degrees in composites, and both well regarded in what they do. According to them a rod can be put on a stress machine and taken to a limit just before breaking points. Some will take many more repetitions than others to that point, depending on material, thickness, and the taper they are made with some will even take the limit more times than the same testing in an exactly same dimensional blank.

But they have said just because a rod will take the stress, and it is not taken close to the max at anytime, it is wearing on it, the more times you stress a rod by bending it by any amount, you are stretching (making it longer) the top side of the blank and compressing (shortening if you will) the bottom of the rod, this constant stretching and contracting of the material is like any other material, it wears on it. So if you catch 7 lbs. bass all the time, and another guy never catches over 2 lbs bass all the time, his rod is going to outlast yours. Plus according to the proffesionals, the same specs on different blanks are not allways the same, because some rods can take all the 5 lbs fish you can catch the exact same kind of rod on a different blank, can fail much sooner doing the same duty, just not right away.

I was also told by a St. Croix rep, that is why some blank with one material will get a lifetime warranty and some blanks made with different won't. They expect each to take so much stress before it weakens it, in other words wears out!! But like they said every rod even built identical will have some variance. So a 5 year rod is ecpected to get as much use by the "AVERAGE USER" in that amount of time, the Lifetime blanks can take much more of this stretching and contracting of the material without taking a toll, but without abusing the rod it will take it's toll eventually!! That is what the folks with degrees making these rods say, not me. So a guy that fishes in Florida year round 4 or 5 days week is going to have the same warranty the guy that fatigues his rods 7 months out of the year 2 days a week,,,,,to say one should have the same time to take it's toll on a rod is ridiculous, same as saying I only fish 2 days a week so your stuff should last as long as mine when you fish 5 or 6 days a week??????

Shimano played the high profit game, charging extravagant markup's on their rods made in China, hoping few would hassle with the warranty and they could smile all the way to the bank with outrageous profit's, now they have to balk. This because they, in no way, with the rods we are referring to here, have anywhere near the technology, or the engineering in them, let alone the cost of materials or labor to build them, that Gary Loomis and NFC, or those now managing G. Loomis for Shimano, or St. Croix does in the rods they back with lifetime warranties, but they responsibly offer lifetime warranties that are real, and they expect their customers to use them, as they pay extra for them every time they buy one of these elite blanks.

Much of this is false. I am a production operations specialist in composites for a major aircraft manufacturer. I've seen numerous stress tests on carbon composites that lead me to believe otherwise. If you don't take the rod past the stress point, it will keep bouncing back and will not wear out. The threads, epoxy, handle, etc. will fail before the blank; under normal conditions.

[gulfcaptain]

Anyone think the warranty issue maybe caused because most now ARE pushing their equipment past what they are designed for.  Most now use braid which has no stretch with much tighter drags which was fine with mono because of it's stretch. We all have up'd are game in the fishing world.  We take our equipment out, and yes we push it to the limits and some past the limit.  IF I believe no matter what I do to my equipment the manufacturer will replace it without questions. Maybe Shimano has seen this as I'm sure they pay attention and have seen a rise in returns as more of us use braid.  Their only option to stay viable is to shorten the warranty, hope that their client base will still trust them and continue to purchase their products.  If not they will fail, and then they will have to develop a better product that will hold up at the price point they are charging.  Or they will jack the prices up on rods they sell that will have a lifetime warranty.  I'd almost bet the next years line up will cost a lot more but will offer a lifetime warranty. I'd say these will be up in the $250-300 range.

[Capt.Bob]

Bob with all due respect, I challenge you to prove that any quality rod, at any price, when used within the limits of its design will "wear out" over time. It is not normal flexing of the blank that damages the blank. It is going beyond those limits. Maybe you can wear out an anvil too, but not with normal use, whether you're shoeing horses or cracking walnuts.

 

The other idea in play in this thread is that bad companies are making too much money. Shimano may not be your cup of tea, but their success is based on a very large and satisfied customer base. I don't have a Shimano rod or reel in my arsenal at this time-I am not a fan-boy. Shimano, or any other manufacturer competing in an open market succeeds or fails based on their ability to meet the needs of the market. The idea that because they make a lot of money they owe you more than a company that doesn't is nonsense. 

I won't try and prove anything, I am simply going to believe what the tech at St. Croix has told me, and what Gary Loomis explained in a video explaining how and why his new NFC rods are built tested and expected to be used, I certainly hope you do not believe pounding on an anvil has anything to do with fishing. 

 

Your comments about me being a Shimano basher is kinda funny also, my wife wishes I I would black flag Shimano. I currently own 3 Symetry's,  2 Stradic MgFB's, 2 Stradic FI's, 3 Stradic FJ's, a Stradic Ci4+ a Saros, and a Calcutta, I own them because I feel they are better than any other reel for my needs near there cost! I choose to own Lew's reels for casting reels as I believe in 60 years these are the best reels close to their cost at what they are designed for, Rods I use and choose the same way!  I don't feel that way about Shimano Rods, but am not bashing. The facts are the rods they are no longer warranting, and refusing to back a warranty after customers have paid for it is not acceptable, it is failing to fullfill a contract they made with individuals for monetary gain!! PERIOD!  If you bought one of their reels and they said we changed our mind, were not going to warranty them anymore, would be the same thing, By the way we'll fix it cause its a week old, but now it falls into our no warranty plan,,,,,,,,,this is more sensible than comparing a anvil to a fishing rod,,,,,Please?

Much of this is false. I am a production operations specialist in composites for a major aircraft manufacturer. I've seen numerous stress tests on carbon composites that lead me to believe otherwise. If you don't take the rod past the stress point, it will keep bouncing back and will not wear out. The threads, epoxy, handle, etc. will fail before the blank; under normal conditions.

You compare it to building airplanes if it makes you feel like you know more than those designing fishing rods, your entitled to your opinion. Kinda like the ridiculous video thinking every rod would break at the same point, or whatever the point in breaking one rod is, but will assure you if they would have stopped 2" before the rod broke and continued with the same test over and over, it would have eventually broken at a reduced amount of flex. When a composite is chosen it is expected to do it's job within a range, and "GOOD RODS" like Gary Loomis explains in his goals for developing a rod, is to come up with a taper and a materiel, that when a finished taper is chosen will be on the edge for the purpose it is design for, and do it enough times before fatigue takes it's toll, to offer outstanding service for the average fisherman, wanting the highest performance possible. The closer it is to the edge breaking while still being able to do it's chosen job, the lighter, the more sensitive and the higher performance it will deliver, and why rods for different applications are designed with different tapers, thicknesses, and materials. There are a lot of folks on forums that post on what they see, read and think, fine. I will believe what those designing the materials and proving decade after decade, even offering lifetime warranties know what their doing. These are not comments I make or think, these were straight from those making them. like anvils being compared to fishing rods, I won't compare airplanes or the materials made for them to fishing rods either. I am quite certain The rod's I use do not use aircraft quality composites!

[Capt.Bob]

Anyone think the warranty issue maybe caused because most now ARE pushing their equipment past what they are designed for.  Most now use braid which has no stretch with much tighter drags which was fine with mono because of it's stretch. We all have up'd are game in the fishing world.  We take our equipment out, and yes we push it to the limits and some past the limit.  IF I believe no matter what I do to my equipment the manufacturer will replace it without questions. Maybe Shimano has seen this as I'm sure they pay attention and have seen a rise in returns as more of us use braid.  Their only option to stay viable is to shorten the warranty, hope that their client base will still trust them and continue to purchase their products.  If not they will fail, and then they will have to develop a better product that will hold up at the price point they are charging.  Or they will jack the prices up on rods they sell that will have a lifetime warranty.  I'd almost bet the next years line up will cost a lot more but will offer a lifetime warranty. I'd say these will be up in the $250-300 range.

This is exactly why they are. To many Mike Iconellys wanna bees, high sticking and lifting fish in a boat and things like this, along with 50 lbs. braid and locked down reels, the point you make about not giving a D**n. This should be obvious by the number of members on here using the same rods and having no problems. I believe Shimano rods and the less expensive ones are the ones those that abuse their rods are breaking the most. I also believe those buying the top end more expensive ST, Croix, G. Loomis (a now Shimano company) and NFC, that are willing to pay these higher priced rod's also take much better care of their equipment, and do it for the performance, not just a warranty, than those buying the cheapest rod possible to get that Lifetime Warranty. You sir I believe are 100% correct on that point. Yes the materials are better and will take more with the higher priced rods, but all will fail prematurely when abused. Like I said early in this post, if St Croix would discontinue their Lifetime policy, I would be hard pressed to buy another brand, because I know what I am buying what I think is the best for what I want it to do. I doubt the ones this new policy affects are buying theirs for the same reason.

[K_Mac]

Bob you can believe what you want. That is my point. You can not claim scientific authority while giving anecdotal "evidence" though. If the science proves your point and you can support that, you have a case. if not you have opinion. It does not matter what you think you heard from Garry Loomis or anyone else. While you don't like the anvil analogy it simply makes the point that with normal use, i.e. within the design specifications, you or anyone else is not going to "wear out" a fishing rod. 

 

FWIW I do not claim you are a Shimano basher. You simply fail to understand that they are changing the policy on new purchases and requiring proof of purchase on older rods and that is not a breach of contract. It is simply a change of policy. Did they do it for monetary reasons? You can bet on that. Does it make sense as a business model? Yes, it does IMO. Are they making more than you find acceptable? Only you can answer that. I am now tired of beating this anvil. Peace.

[Tywithay]

I won't try and prove anything, I am simply going to believe what the tech at St. Croix has told me, and what Gary Loomis explained in a video explaining how and why his new NFC rods are built tested and expected to be used, I certainly hope you do not believe pounding on an anvil has anything to do with fishing.

Your comments about me being a Shimano basher is kinda funny also, my wife wishes I I would black flag Shimano. I currently own 3 Symetry's, 2 Stradic MgFB's, 2 Stradic FI's, 3 Stradic FJ's, a Stradic Ci4+ a Saros, and a Calcutta, I own them because I feel they are better than any other reel for my needs near there cost! I choose to own Lew's reels for casting reels as I believe in 60 years these are the best reels close to their cost at what they are designed for, Rods I use and choose the same way! I don't feel that way about Shimano Rods, but am not bashing. The facts are the rods they are no longer warranting, and refusing to back a warranty after customers have paid for it is not acceptable, it is failing to fullfill a contract they made with individuals for monetary gain!! PERIOD! If you bought one of their reels and they said we changed our mind, were not going to warranty them anymore, would be the same thing, By the way we'll fix it cause its a week old, but now it falls into our no warranty plan,,,,,,,,,this is more sensible than comparing a anvil to a fishing rod,,,,,Please?

You compare it to building airplanes if it makes you feel like you know more than those designing fishing rods, your entitled to your opinion. Kinda like the ridiculous video thinking every rod would break at the same point, or whatever the point in breaking one rod is, but will assure you if they would have stopped 2" before the rod broke and continued with the same test over and over, it would have eventually broken at a reduced amount of flex. When a composite is chosen it is expected to do it's job within a range, and "GOOD RODS" like Gary Loomis explains in his goals for developing a rod, is to come up with a taper and a materiel, that when a finished taper is chosen will be on the edge for the purpose it is design for, and do it enough times before fatigue takes it's toll, to offer outstanding service for the average fisherman, wanting the highest performance possible. The closer it is to the edge breaking while still being able to do it's chosen job, the lighter, the more sensitive and the higher performance it will deliver, and why rods for different applications are designed with different tapers, thicknesses, and materials. There are a lot of folks on forums that post on what they see, read and think, fine. I will believe what those designing the materials and proving decade after decade, even offering lifetime warranties know what their doing. These are not comments I make or think, these were straight from those making them. like anvils being compared to fishing rods, I won't compare airplanes or the materials made for them to fishing rods either. I am quite certain The rod's I use do not use aircraft quality composites!

The graphite prepreg we use to build our parts comes from Hexcel and Toray. It's essentially the same stuff used on rods, except it's a lower modulus and slightly thicker. The graphite used on fishing rods is a higher quality than what we use, in most cases.

[gulfcaptain]

Bob you can believe what you want. That is my point. You can not claim scientific authority while giving anecdotal "evidence" though. If the science proves your point and you can support that, you have a case. if not you have opinion. It does not matter what you think you heard from Garry Loomis or anyone else. While you don't like the anvil analogy it simply makes the point that with normal use, i.e. within the design specifications, you or anyone else is not going to "wear out" a fishing rod. 

 

FWIW I do not claim you are a Shimano basher. You simply fail to understand that they are changing the policy on new purchases and requiring proof of purchase on older rods and that is not a breach of contract. It is simply a change of policy. Did they do it for monetary reasons? You can bet on that. Does it make sense as a business model? Yes, it does IMO. Are they making more than you find acceptable? Only you can answer that. I am now tired of beating this anvil. Peace.

I don't think you can wear out any of the new graphite rods made that are made for bass fishing, now I do think you can soften up a fiberglass blank that you use in saltwater.....why do I say that, years of fishing and running sportboats on the west coast.  I have worn out some of the fiberglass rods I have but then that took years of constant abuse being fished to their limits on a daily basis. Would a normal fisherman wear them out that quick, probably not and like I said that's an S-Glass blank, not the newer hi modulus graphite we fish today.